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Does government have a social contract mandate?. Does it exist ? Arguments preferred over insults please.

Captain Red Eye

Active member
does money exist?

does math exist?

do the words "time travel" exist?

seems social contract only "exists" as long as we agree it does, like money (fiat currency, for the pedantic, yes 'fed' dollas)

Does money exist?
I'd need to know more about how you define "money", but I'd say it exists. I'll spare you the reasons why, this time. :) Besides, you already swung and missed once, when you alluded to federal reserve debt notes as money. rather than as a fiat currency.


Does math exist?
Yes math exists, it's an abstract thing, but refers to an easily observable concept. It has established and verifiable rules that are usually consistent and demonstrable, unless...it's government. They're not very good at math and don't follow the rules. Math cheaters.

Glad you brought math up, let's use math to prove something.

For example, let's say you nor I have any right to do X .
That nonexistent right would be expressed as zero, as in "zero right" to do something.

By using math / logic we know we can't take our individual zero right to do X and add them both together and come up with a positive sum. Even if thousands of other people all having the same zero right to do X as us, add all their "zero right" with our zero right, we would still come up with zero, as in "zero right" to do X.

If you as an individual don't have a right to force people to pay for your ideas if the other person is a disinterested peaceful person, you can't delegate that nonexistent right to other people claiming to be "society" or "government". Nor could you delegate it even if they're lying that they have an invisible "social contract" in their pocket which they can't show you or provide evidence you as an equal individual agreed to. It would be mathematically impossible.

Government doesn't care. They declare they can make 0+0+0 equal a positive sum. They're lying and they suck at math. Maybe that's why they're trillions in debt ?

Do the words time travel exist?
Yes, you wrote them and I wrote them. Words came into existence through something called language, where people made sounds which were associated with things, later as language became more abstract words were assigned to concepts.

The important thing about words, if they are used honestly, they don't mean one thing if you or I perform a given action, but the meaning shifts if another entity does the exact same action. Words to have meaning are affixed to an action or concept.

Who would call murder "collateral damage" ? Who would call an unsigned, not agreed to concept a "contract" when there is no actual mutual agreement? Who would call forcing a person into a relationship they don't want to be part of, "protecting" them? Hmmm.


Social contract exists if we agree it does?
Yes, contracts in order to be a contract, require the involved individuals to agree to something or agree to a set of terms. Failing to achieve agreement, means there is no contract.

If I claim I have a contract which obligates you to do X and I claim it's a contract which binds you, but you never saw it, signed it or agreed to it, it would not be a contract.

Even a government court hearing a dispute between us would not consider that we have a contract . They'd laugh at you. Then they train you to use terms like "social contract" as arguments and rationalizations for their own contradictory behaviors. That's not very nice. ;)

It's almost like they're cheating in matters of actual money, meanings of words, math, and things which create contracts, when these things are applied to them. Well, not really "almost", it's the modus operandi.
 
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buzzmobile

Well-known member
Veteran
1734787940336.jpeg


traffic_light_red.jpg
 

Captain Red Eye

Active member
LOL, good luck with THAT shit...

you just don't go to their church. a church has ZERO control over what the people living in that area do (or even those that attend that church). have you lost what little common sense you once had? good lord...

No, I have not lost common sense.

Have you lost your ability to do 2nd grade math?

How about you read my reply above, Does math exist, regarding math and using "common sense" 2nd grade math show where any math errors are? Looking forward to your on point response there.

Can you use math and disprove what I said?



Church has ZERO control
Yes, churches are voluntary associations. A church or religious group in a free society (usually) doesn't force you to join them, they may persuade you, but they don't force you to join them against your will do they?

You'd probably agree a church that gained members simply because you live in proximity to their church is
making an assumption of consent, even when no consent was given right?

You'd probably agree social institutions such as churches have no automatic contract with people, especially if some people specifically deny being members of a given church or religion.
 
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buzzmobile

Well-known member
Veteran
Are you saying the existence of traffic lights is an example that government has a social contract with every person in a given area ?
Traffic lights are a social contract with every person who drives on the road. They do not rely on government or licensure to control traffic. No force involved when a red light comes on.
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
an assumption of consent,
consent about what? WTF are you babbling about? NO, a church may not "assume consent" because you live nearby, and we've already agreed that the church cannot force you to do anything or give anything, there IS no "consent" issue. find something real to talk about, and stop pulling shit OOYA... living in relative proximity to a religious institution has exactly not fuck to do with living inside of (and being a citizen thereof) a geographically distinct area (county/state/nation) where you benefit from others taxes and them by yours.
 

Captain Red Eye

Active member
consent about what? WTF are you babbling about? NO, a church may not "assume consent" because you live nearby, and we've already agreed that the church cannot force you to do anything or give anything, there IS no "consent" issue. find something real to talk about, and stop pulling shit OOYA... living in relative proximity to a religious institution has exactly not fuck to do with living inside of (and being a citizen thereof) a geographically distinct area (county/state/nation) where you benefit from others taxes and them by yours.

I don't see your math on how any people, government. church, your neighbor etc. can assume consent over you, unless you gave it to them. I don't see where you addressed the implied questions in Does the math exist.

I'll try again with three specific questions:

What is the sum of 0+0 + 0 Ad finitum ?

How can anyone delegate a right to a "representative" to do something if that person never possessed that right in the first place?

Can nonexistent rights from individuals be added together to create a positive sum and can you show me using simple arithmetic how that would be done?


(You did question my common sense, let's see you flash some 2nd grade math skills! ;))


You benefit!!!

Not a very good answer. Kind of an empty platitude. Can you defend that naked assertion?
When you claim "you benefit", I think that's a spurious claim, since value is subjective.

You can decide what benefits you, other people decide what benefits them. You seem to make a huge exception to that obvious circumstance when it involves obedience to State actions that run contrary to that. That's odd, almost like you believe in two separate realities.

One for you and I to follow. We can't and shouldn't force people to pay for our ideas, if they don't want / don't use a given service we are trying to force on them. Then you think it's fine if some other people calling themselves "government" do what we can't. How can that be if government people are "us". where did they get rights which neither you or I possess?

How does a person benefit if their money is used against them to enforce prohibition? Enforce victimless crime type laws?

Force them to pay for things they don't want. don't use and wouldn't ordinarily buy if they were "allowed" to opt out of paying for it ? How does a person benefit if the gathering of the money used to fund things that person specifically opposes is taken from them and then used against their wishes?

Also, I'm not babbling, I'm discussing the concept of "social contract" and things associated with it.
 
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Captain Red Eye

Active member
Traffic lights are a social contract with every person who drives on the road. They do not rely on government or licensure to control traffic. No force involved when a red light comes on.

Thank you for clarifying your meaning. I agree with your post, with one exception, which I detail below.
I think in traffic situations it's important for people to cooperate on roads, whether public or private maintained.

I'm certainly not opposed to rightful owners applying rules to that which they own and control, it's rulers that grind my gears. Especially rulers that otherwise peaceful but disinterested people seem to fall under even when they never actually consented to a given situation.

I'm not seeing your example as a "social contract" in the sense of the meaning people commonly use when saying "social contract" when trying to defend government's overarching authority over nearly everyone and everything. (see opening posts in thread for further clarification)

Just because we make a consensual agreement for me to use your private road doesn't imply that we have used or created THE social contract that people refer to when attempting to justify all kinds of other fuckery government does, without any consent being given.

I would call people cooperating consensually on roads a specific contract, rather than THE social contract. THE social contract is not a circumstance that relies on social cooperation and actual consent, it assumes consent, even when none is actually given.

Things which have actual consent between all involved parties are different than things which don't, ie "social contract" which doesn't have actual consent at least from some people.

Expressed nonconsent trumps implied assumed consent. If it doesn't, we don't live in a free society.
 
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Captain Red Eye

Active member
you'd think that, but apparently germany hasn't gotten the memo

Some living German people seem to be overcompensating for the crimes other mostly now dead, bad and blindly obedient German people did during WWII.

It's a similar phenomenon as silly white liberals and their groveling virtue signaling in a stupid attempt to take on the blame for what some long dead other people did to slaves in the 1800s.

It's actually a kind of racist behavior the grovelers are using, and they don't seem to realize it.

Very few living Germans did the bad things in WWII, no living white people did bad things to slaves in the 1800s.
 

shiva82

Well-known member
Some living German people seem to be overcompensating for the crimes other mostly now dead, bad and blindly obedient German people did during WWII.

It's a similar phenomenon as silly white liberals and their groveling virtue signaling in a stupid attempt to take on the blame for what some long dead other people did to slaves in the 1800s.

It's actually a kind of racist behavior the grovelers are using, and they don't seem to realize it.

Very few living Germans did the bad things in WWII, no living white people did bad things to slaves in the 1800s.
slavery existed from the beginning of humanity , and is still ongoing to this day . whites were taken as slaves in their millions . the irish slaves were possibly treated the worst by the colonials

eisenhower holacausted millions of german men, starving and working them to death in open fields with no aid and the ' allies' genocided much of germany .

many nuances

the past is the past. i do not believe in any historical retribution for the generations that follow after
 

Captain Red Eye

Active member
slavery existed from the beginning of humanity , and is still ongoing to this day . whites were taken as slaves in their millions . the irish slaves were possibly treated the worst by the colonials

eisenhower holacausted millions of german men, starving and working them to death in open fields with no aid and the ' allies' genocided much of germany .

many nuances

the past is the past. i do not believe in any historical retribution for the generations that follow after

Yes, people are still enslaved. The evidence of that is peaceful but disinterested people are unable to have freedom of action to do things which are rightfully theirs to do.

Better conditions on a "political plantation" don't change that. It is freedom of rightful action and freedom from being forcibly compelled which makes a person free. Those circumstances don't exist much today.

1734875383826.png
 

nepalnt21

FRRRRRResh!
Veteran
irish slaves
god i hate when people say this idiotic shit.

there were NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER chattel irish slaves in colonial america. probably no white chattel slaves in america ever, pretty sure i'd wager on that on a game show. if it was, someone got kidnapped and it was a one - off thing.

please fix your comment to remove the FALSE notion that you can call them irish "slaves" in colonial times when they LITERLLY HAD CHATTEL SLAVES and none of them was ever a white irish slave.

inb4;

NO, INDENTURED SERVITUDE IS NOT AT ALL CHATTEL SLAVERY
 
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shiva82

Well-known member
the ottaman empire were also one of the biggest dealer of white slaves . and the jews also were reliant on slave trading ,as were the african nations. you can buy slaves today in libya and elsewhere.

this is history .

like i say , historical retribution is not cool imo .
 

shiva82

Well-known member
are you fucking serious? the allies "genocided" germany?

ffs, do you actually believe the horse- crap you write? you HAVE to be trolling.

inb4;

yes war crimes happened. a lot.
stop being hysterical , i honestly do not care about your opinion . captain red eye has great patience even by responding to your nonsense and ignorance .
 

nepalnt21

FRRRRRResh!
Veteran
Besides, you already swung and missed once, when you alluded to federal reserve debt notes as money. rather than as a fiat currency
i didn't swing and miss, you guys are being annoyingly and needlessly pedantic when every high schooler would have known what i mean when i said "money" in the context of this conversation. it's a waste of time when we know what page we are on.

(good try on the deflection from the real meat and bits of the convo, though... ffs, are YOU trolling?)

so is the american dollar real?
 
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