Do you remove healthy Fan leaves?

[medmaker420]

I don't want to create any stress in my girls. Along with that comes the lazy aspect, the less I have to do with them the better on my end especially since right now I am hand watering 30 fucking girls lol. I leave em be...

 

[wick.96]

bump... please read first post!! thanks for your vote!

 

[greenatik]

there's quite a few respectable growers on here that do massive fan leaf pruning and claim a large increase in yield. there was a discussion on it recently but can't find the thread.

first week of flower i prune everything off the lower 1/3 of the plant. but now im vertical i prune the entire back of the plant. then about week 3, week 4 i take off a considerable amount of fan leaves. its all about timing, taking off ALL the fans at once will of course induce stress.

why are the SHADE leaves any better then the bud leaves? the way i see it the shade leaves are for veg, but in flower, when they start producing lots of node leaves, they become unnecessary. lots of ways to skin a cat but i have great results and big big buds

 

[greenatik]

First, I have to say that when I realized how bad it had f*cked things up, it was not funny... not at all!!! But, after I got over wanting to rip this guy's head off and sh*t down his neck, I tried to see something good in what had happened. And, I did.... unless it is absolutely necessary, LEAVE THE F*CKING FAN LEAVES ALONE!!!!!!!!!!

The guy who told me this was a local idiot!! He claimed that he had been secretly growing... "quite successfully" for over 20 years. BULLSH*T!!!!!!! And, he said that if I left the fan leaves on, the plant's energy would all go into keeping the leaves healthy and none into bud production. BULLSH*T!!!!!!!! It went against everything that I had been taught or learned about vegetables and flowers. But, I'd never grown bud before. So, I listened to the "more experienced and therefore more knowledgeable (BULLSH*T!!!!!!!)" guy!! After I told him that I had cut all the fan leaves off, he said that I did good and would have some monster buds. BULLLLLLLLSH*TTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The bud growth slowed WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY down. And, the new bud production came to a grinding halt!!!!!

This was a lesson that I will NEVER forget!!!!!!!

It's alright.... you all can go ahead and get a good laugh out of it... especially if you are stoked! And, you can say want... and, you can do what you want to do... to you own plants! As for mine... I'd cut a SOB for touching mine!!!

IP

im pretty sure he was referring to the shade leaves... not all the leaves on the plant

 

[inpain0013]

im pretty sure he was referring to the shade leaves... not all the leaves on the plant

Nope... he pointed to the fan leaves and said that I needed to cut them ALL off!! Kind of hard to misunderstand that!! But, as I've already well pointed out.... it won't happen again!!!

IP

 

[chef]

I've found there's a sweet spot in regards to light penetration. Too much shade is worse than fan trimming in some cases from my experience. I've seen some yield boosts from late stage stripping too, in the last 2 weeks or so.
I've always stripped the bottom 1/3 bare naked right before 12/12, for increased air flow & no schwag fluff. Less room for pests to hide & get a foothold too YMMV

 

[surfingrob]

Good thread. I've always removed older fan leaved from my plants and it works great. Leaves that are slightly darker than the rest, slightly crinkly, get removed, allowing light and air to pass. It's definitely not a good idea to go remove over 20% of any plant in this process or to remove new green growth.

Also, this technique's success definitely depends on the strain. I find hardier indicas to respond better to abuse overall and therefore respond better to this technique, they just knot up with beautiful bushy nodes.

 

[LJB]

why are the SHADE leaves any better then the bud leaves? the way i see it the shade leaves are for veg, but in flower, when they start producing lots of node leaves, they become unnecessary. lots of ways to skin a cat but i have great results and big big buds

They are not better leaves, they are different and they have a purpose. The plant adapts. On leaves that are under a canopy:

This is from the Biology Dept. at Marietta College in Georgia:

How does photosynthesis differ between 'sun' and 'shade' plants or leaves?

Plants are usually adapted to growth in direct sunlight or shaded conditions. Similar differences are observed among the leaves of large trees; those leaves that develop under the shade of other leaves are anatomically and metabolically different from those that grow on exposed canopy surfaces.

Shade-type leaves typically are thinner, have more surface area, and contain more chlorophyll than those of sun leaves. As a result, shade-leaves (curve B) often are more efficient in harvesting sunlight at low light levels; remember, the slope of the line observed under low light conditions is a measure of photosynthetic efficiency. However, sun-leaves (curve A) display a higher light saturation point and maximum rate of photosynthesis.

 

[V1AAA]

i voted leave them on

in my experience...

i remove some of the lower fan leaves when i see the bottom shoots aint doing much. i also clean the bottoms out, but with regards to higher leaf, i found that once they are removed my colas dont swell as much

this is just what i found

the system i tried it on was nft

 

[Mr-B]

A lot of hydro growers lollipop their plants during the first 1-2 weeks of flower. This method allows the plant to concentrate it's growth on the upper part of the plant (I dunno if that's true) and keeps the lower fan leafs from growing near the flood line.

I've seen a lot of grows using that method and most of the growers produce huge results.

I personally cut away any lower fan leaf that may gotten damaged from heavy feeding during veg.


Bump

 

[LJB]

What advantage is there to "shade leaves", when sun leaves obviously exhibit higher maximum photosynthetic rates? The answer lies in the balance between photosynthesis and respiration.

Leaves which are adapted to sun environments are generally thicker (i.e., have lower specific leaf area, SLA), and must therefore expend more energy per unit leaf area to maintain the living tissue of the leaf. At low PFPD a sun leaf may actually be below its light compensation point, and will therefore experience net respiration (i.e., net carbon loss).

Shade leaves have lower maintenance respiration costs per unit area, and therefore have lower light compensation points. This allows them to achieve positive net photosynthetic rates under relatively low PPFD conditions.

Of course, another potential advantage of shade leaves is that they require less initial energy input per unit leaf area developed by the plant. That is, shade leaves allow the plant to maximize interceptance of available radiation, with the lowest possible metabolic cost, both initially and in terms of subsequent maintenance respiration. The tradeoff is that high PPFD levels, should they occur, will not be effectively utilized.

Leaf Photosynthesis IV – Leaf Net Photosynthesis
PBIO*3110 – Crop Physiology Lecture #10
Fall Semester 2008 Plant Agriculture - University of Guelph

The tradeoff is that high PPFD levels, should they occur, will not be effectively utilized.

Does this support the idea of tucking shade leaves that reach for the light, away from it in order to utilize them or is that just silly?

 

[LJB]

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=398&yearVar=2009&issueVar=January

Trimming Etiquette: A Guide to Polite Pruning
by Matt LeBannister
2009-01-01

There are certain concerns that come with pruning. When trimming a plant, the gardener is essentially wounding the plant at the point where the cut is made, making the plant vulnerable to infection and disease. The tools making the cuts, whether scalpel, scissor or shear, must be sterilized before each cut is made. The easiest way to do this is to submerge the blades of the cutting tools in a solution of four parts water to one part bleach before each cut is made. When the cutting tools are not properly sterilized before each cut, disease can be transferred from one plant to another. This careless behavior can cause entire crops to become diseased, costing the gardener time, money and unnecessary stress.

To really ensure that no unwanted viruses or diseases can gain access to your plant, pinch the flesh of the plant between your fingers where the cut will be made. By the end of the day the wound will have healed internally. Trimming then will not leave the plant at such a risk of infection.

[..]

...one must keep in mind that the lower parts of the plant, including roots, derive most of their energy from the lower leaves. Pruning these lower leaves on a plant that still requires root development is not recommended. If one chooses to prune the bottom ⅓ of the plant’s branches and leaves, it should be done one to two weeks prior to flowering.

Those are 3 interesting points.

 

[THC_Decapitator]

I prune a few leaves here and there that are covering bud sights . I chop of the lower branch's and leaves to promote upward growth . I have had large colas , no loss in yeild. prune away

 

[LiLWaynE]

i like to tuck the upper fan leaves under the budsites and remove the lower fan leaves that dont see light.

 

[C21H30O2]

this would seem to imply that it may be beneficial to keep large fan leaves throughout flowering and then remove them during the last one or two weeks in which most plants typically swell. The smaller leaves with the denser chlorophyll levels would augment yield greater than the fan leaves at this critical time of development. thoughts?

They are not better leaves, they are different and they have a purpose. The plant adapts. On leaves that are under a canopy:

This is from the Biology Dept. at Marietta College in Georgia:

How does photosynthesis differ between 'sun' and 'shade' plants or leaves?

Plants are usually adapted to growth in direct sunlight or shaded conditions. Similar differences are observed among the leaves of large trees; those leaves that develop under the shade of other leaves are anatomically and metabolically different from those that grow on exposed canopy surfaces.

Shade-type leaves typically are thinner, have more surface area, and contain more chlorophyll than those of sun leaves. As a result, shade-leaves (curve B) often are more efficient in harvesting sunlight at low light levels; remember, the slope of the line observed under low light conditions is a measure of photosynthetic efficiency. However, sun-leaves (curve A) display a higher light saturation point and maximum rate of photosynthesis.

 

[alpinestar]

remove certain bud sites, not fan leaves (unless theyre dead)
do so where they are going to get the least light and develop in popcorn.

this is what increases yield in regard to pruning

simply moving or bending fan leaves out of the way will allow bud sites to be exposed to light without having to kill the leaf off

 

[whatissixbynine]

.

 

[LJB]

...

 

[LJB]

remove certain bud sites, not fan leaves (unless theyre dead)
do so where they are going to get the least light and develop in popcorn.

this is what increases yield in regard to pruning

yes that too. Perhaps this has been determined. I don't know the strategy increases potential yield, but it certainly does mean that the plant's energy will focus on the bigger and more attractive flowers that remain.

The commercial greenhouse growers do the same thing with melon fruits and what not.

 

[MickTheBrag]

lollypop

lollypop

yea man remove some of the bottom fan leaves. its called lollipoping. its so your colas get more juices inproving your yeild.





peace. mick.