Do (some, many) Icmag Members Have A Science Problem?

[Crusader Rabbit]

Hard to have a discussion when everyone speaks a different language. The word science means different things to different people. It can be an institution or a methodology. For some it means a big Hadron Collider and the risk of total annihilation. Some people think of out of touch eggheads in white coats. For others it's an enterprise looking for a cure for leukemia. It can be a guy interested in glaciers walking a hillside looking for stones that seem out of place. It can be a mechanic beginning the process of deciding whether the problem is fuel or spark. But at IC Mag it always ends with aliens.

 

[trichrider]

Mar 26

New Discovery: NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools Atmosphere

Written by H. Schreuder & J. O'Sullivan


A recent NASA report throws the space agency into conflict with its climatologists after new NASA measurements prove that carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth's atmosphere.

NASA's Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun. The data was collected by Sounding of the Atmosphere using Broadband Emission Radiometry, (or SABER). SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances thought to be playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet’s surface.

more at:

http://principia-scientific.org/sup...e-cools-atmosphere.html#.UVYwRz4bXF4.facebook

not to disparage science...

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

jeez trich..

The first thing that happened when I clicked on that link was I got a warning (WOT) that the site is a bad site.

Why do you believe such nonsense?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Mar 26

New Discovery: NASA Study Proves Carbon Dioxide Cools Atmosphere

Written by H. Schreuder & J. O'Sullivan


A recent NASA report throws the space agency into conflict with its climatologists after new NASA measurements prove that carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth's atmosphere.

I am immediately suspicious of any scientific claim that purports to prove something. Real scientists hardly ever use that word.

 

[OGShush]

Decades of being told scientific "facts" which turned out to be completely wrong make you a bit cynical.

So coffee causes cancer this week? Alcohol is good for you? Sunlight is bad for you? It almost feels like the studies are just commissioned to sell products.

Don't blame that on science, blame that on the media. You've got idiots in the media trying to explain to a whole bunch of idiots watching that some study demonstrated a statistically interesting correlation between two things and that it is still pending peer review. One of the first things they tell you in science classes is that correlation does not equal causation. Do members of the general public or the media even begin to fathom that? Hellz no.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Thought I would share with you this little tidbit.

"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ~ Tim Minchin

minds_I

 

[Perpetual Nooch]

Science today is for sale to the highest bidder. So much of it is tied to consumer products, grants, monied interests. It is just as bad to believe everything that "science" tells you.

For example, everyone knows that cigarettes cause cancer now, but there was a time when "scientists" said there was no danger. The Harper Government has "scientists" who tell us the Tar Sands is not a dirty source of oil. Do you believe them?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Scientists are people. There are always those individuals who are willing to sell out their integrity for $$$. That is why "science" as a community looks at the consensus of the larger group. During the incidents you describe, the consensus of the science community was that cigarettes will kill you. Same thing is going on with human induced climate change. The consensus of the scientific community is that we are causing Earth's climate to spiral out of the patterns we've been accustomed to. But there are individuals who for whatever reason, usually money, who will sell out to moneyed interests. People are people. This is nothing new.

And like lap dogs the media will obediently play the false equivalence game and give equal treatment to those whom the majority consider to be shills.

 

[Weird]

the scientific body of data is often used in very subjective ways by non scientists to manipulate public opinion

scientists are bothered by this and working on a way to maintain integrity in their works

of course some of the research facilities and universities are corporate owned or under some level of influence but I don't think that scientists focus on misrepresenting what they discover

you can thank hitler for spreading the effectiveness of propaganda

what you misreport here will be propagated as truth elsewhere

 

[hush]

Conspiracies aren't real, no one ever conspires. Duhhhhhh....

10 Unbelievable Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True

If you’ve spent more than 30 seconds reading comments threads on Youtube, a blog or a news site, then chances are you’ll have come across the conspiracy theorist: someone who believes that, behind a seemingly innocent or obvious event lays a grand scheme designed to mislead or outright deceive the general public. While the moon landings, JFK and 9/11 might have spawned countless pages of fruitless speculation, it turns out that real-life conspiracies take place more often than you think…

1. The Gunpowder Plot

The most famous conspiracy in British history, and ultimately the reason for the now-ubiquitous Anonymous/V For Vendetta/Guy Fawkes mask, the Gunpowder Plot was a daring conspiracy with the aim of blowing up the British Parliament in 1604 using (you guessed it) barrels of gunpowder. Unprecedented in scale, a gang of Catholic rebels planned to execute their plan during the State Opening of Parliament, when the building would be full of all its members as well as King James I. In between getting the explosives into place and the State Opening however, one of the conspirators wrote to a Catholic Lord to warn him away from the ceremony; the building was then searched and the explosives (and Fawkes) found. Guy Fawkes and his co-conspirators were swiftly tried, convicted and executed, while the day of the anniversary of the plot, November 5th, is still commemorated in Britain today.


2. Project MKUltra

One of the Cold War’s many strange military endeavours, MKUltra was the codename of a covert US project which conducted experiments into ‘human behavioral engineering’, aka mind control. Beginning in the mid-50s, many subjects of these experiments were unaware that they were being experimented on, not particularly ethical in any case, but especially when you consider that they were being given psychedelic drugs including LSD. When information about the project began to emerge in 1975, public outrage led to increasing demands for documents detailing the extent and operations of the project to be released. Though a large cache of documents was uncovered in 1977, the majority were lost in 1973 when the then-Director of the CIA, who ran the program, ordered all files pertaining to MKUltra to be destroyed.


3. Operation Ajax

After the 2003 Iraq War, regime change has become a phrase of some sensitivity, but Western meddling in the politics of the Middle East is by no means a new thing. In 1953, the British and American governments conspired together to overthrow Iran’s democratically-elected government and replace it with one headed by a monarchy sympathetic to the UK. Without wanting to sound cliché, the reason was oil – no, really. Iran’s new PM had nationalised the state oil company, which annoyed Britain slightly because they had previously owned half of it (but received most of the profits). The resulting coup, arranged by the UK and US, led to the installation of the Shah, who ruled Iran until another coup in 1979 which gave us the aspiring-to-be-nuclear-armed Islamic Republic that exists today.

4. Operation Valkyrie

Perhaps the most daring plot of the Second World War, Valkyrie was the codename given to a German military contingency plan, but became synonymous with a covert operation organised by officers within the German Army who planned to assassinate Hitler and his top officials, thus ending the war with the Allies. On July 20 1944, Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg planted a bomb in a conference room being used by Hitler and exploded it using a remote detonator. Hitler survived with only minor injuries and the rest of the plan fell apart, with those conspirators who didn’t commit suicide being caught and executed.


5. Pontiac’s Conspiracy

Just a decade before the American War of Independence, the British colonists were engaged in a three-year conflict with the amalgamated Native American tribes of the Great Lakes region. In June 1763, the British base at Fort Pitt was besieged by the Native Americans, who had taken the colonists by surprise but were unable to actually take the fort due to lack of manpower and the fort’s efficient fortifications. Rather than risk a protracted siege, Captain Simeon Ecuyer, commander of Fort Pitt, sent out two emissaries to negotiate with their besiegers. He ensured to furnish these emissaries with blankets that were to be gifted to the Native American forces – a kind gesture, if it weren’t for the fact that the blankets were infected with smallpox. While evidence shows that smallpox had already reached Native American communities before this incident, this use of biological warfare broke new and rather unsavoury ground in the conflict.


6. Operation Snow White

Presumably named in homage to another large organisation which specialises in peddling fiction, the Church of Scientology ran Operation Snow White during the 1970s with the purpose of eliminating public and private records which reflected unfavourably on the Church and its founder, science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard. Conducting covert infiltrations of numerous government agencies, embassies and private businesses in over 30 countries over the course of the decade, members of the Church stole or destroyed thousands of documents. Once the operation was discovered, six Scientologists (including L. Ron’s wife, Mary Sue) were tried, fined and/or jailed. During the course of the investigation, the FBI uncovered another conspiracy by the Church…


7. Operation Freakout

An American author and journalist, Paulette Cooper, had been investigating the Church of Scientology since 1968 and was highly critical of both its message and its operations. By 1972, the Church’s third most senior official had targeted her to be ‘handled’, initially by way of having Church members harass her, publish her personal details in public and seek to expose details of her sex life. Cooper was aware of who was targeting her and launched a claim for damages against the Church, who reacted by stepping up their campaign against Cooper’s character. After forging bomb threats against the Church using stationery stolen from Cooper’s home, the Church then planned further efforts to set up the author, including imitating her voice in order to make threats against Arab embassies (Cooper is Jewish) and the then-President and Secretary of State. Due to the investigation into Operation Snow White, the final stages of Operation Freakout were never able to be put into effect.


8. COINTELPRO

Another low point in the early Cold War history of the FBI, COINTELPRO began as an investigation into the activities of the US Communist Party. Before long, it had grown into a campaign of infiltration, sowing discord within the ranks of the Party’s members in an attempt to destabilise it from within. As fear about foreign, communist and radical influence grew through the 1950s and 60s, COINTELPRO’s scope was widened further, with particular focus on ethnic minorities in the wake of the Civil Rights Movement and student and anti-war groups. This unprecedented federal conspiracy against US citizens was uncovered in 1971, too late to prevent the FBI-organised assassination in 1969 of Fred Hampton, a 21-year-old regional deputy chairman of the socialist African-American activist group, the Black Panthers.


9. Operation Paperclip

In the immediate aftermath of the end of the Second World War in Europe, many former Nazi leaders and officials were being rounded up in order to face trial for the crimes they had committed during the conflict. However, some of those who had been working for the regime had been scientists, tasked with creating any manner of destructive weapons which could be used to fight the Allies. With the cosy US-Soviet wartime alliance rapidly deteriorating into the chilly hostility of the Cold War, America was keen to get hold of these scientists before the Russians could, except that many of the scientists were guilty of war crimes. Operation Paperclip, the name given to the process of getting these scientists to America, had specified that the worst offenders should not be brought to the States. Adhering to this rule would have meant most of the scientists staying in Germany, so the military created the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency for the specific purpose of faking documents which downplayed the actions of the scientists during the war. Charming!


10. Enron

Not all conspiracies involve murder, some are just all about greed. Founded by businessman Kenneth Lay in 1985, Enron became one of the biggest energy companies in the world by the year 2000, when shares in the company traded on Wall Street for as much as $90 each. For over ten years, however, Enron President Jeff Skilling had organised and overseen an accounting regime at the company which mislead auditors, stockholders and regulators on an epic scale. When the company began its inevitable decline in 2001, investor confidence rapidly dropped to the point where shares in the firm were worth just $1 each. Following an investigation by regulators, the company went bankrupt, having lost a total value of over $46 billion, the largest in history at that point. Lay was found guilty but died of a heart attack before he could be sentenced; Skilling was found guilty on a number of charges and was fined $45 million and jailed for over 20 years.

Source: http://kizaz.com/2013/03/22/10-unbelievable-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

 

[trichrider]

jeez trich..

The first thing that happened when I clicked on that link was I got a warning (WOT) that the site is a bad site.

Why do you believe such nonsense?

because it's important stuff. believe what you will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEFQHDSYP1I

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

 

[OGShush]

Science today is for sale to the highest bidder. So much of it is tied to consumer products, grants, monied interests. It is just as bad to believe everything that "science" tells you.

For example, everyone knows that cigarettes cause cancer now, but there was a time when "scientists" said there was no danger. The Harper Government has "scientists" who tell us the Tar Sands is not a dirty source of oil. Do you believe them?

Allow me to quote a sufficient response:

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

400 years ago we thought the earth was flat, we also believed that we were the only animal on the planet that reproduced sexually (yes new mice came from hay being left out). Less than 200 years ago doctors didn't wash hands or sterilize instruments. Is that a sufficient argument that Europe doesn't really exist or that doctors are just a bunch of wizards?

No you fucking dolt, it's sufficient argument for the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're a member of what people call the Proletariat. You mainly concern yourself with idle busywork (sports, lotto, whatever) and lack even a fundamental standing of what's going on in the world around you. In my eyes you really aren't much better than an animal and you don't deserve to live in a society made so great by the accomplishments of the people for which you have such disdain and contempt.

It brings me great comfort to know that outside the realm of politics and media and the ignorance of the great unwashed that there are people quietly at work disproving what people "proved" 30 years ago. Whether or not you choose to like or understand that process it will continue.

 

[Jericho Mile]

Science is bought and sold...subjective...to who pays for the studies. 200 yrs from now..what is now sold as scientific proof..will be resold as rhetoric...of the dark ages...we live in presently

Science is not the problem...agenda is the problem. Science does not answer to all

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

because it's important stuff. believe what you will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEFQHDSYP1I

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/

Why would you call such fallacies "important stuff?" Have you not learned critical thinking skills?

There are actually ways to reflect sunlight AWAY from our planet, scientists have been considering doing this as a remedy for our situation (seeding our upper atmosphere with clouds of tiny reflective particles). But CO2 is known to be a greenhouse gas that TRAPS HEAT in our atmosphere. Have known about this for a long long time.

If you believe that website, then you need to go back to school. Or, have a brain transplant....let me see if I can find a nice website where you can sign up for a brain transplant...I'm sure there is one or two out there.

 

[offthehook]

http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/


http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/big-picture-life-present.html

This thread came to mind when reading page 17 of the 2e link.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Another thought I would like to share with you..scientists have always been pawns of the military.

So much of what we have as conveniences were military necessity.

Duct tape....space race....military objective...control the high ground of space.

Ask anyone under of say 40 why we went to the moon and your answer will likely because Kennedy said we should/could.

Computers were initially for ballistic computations for artillery in WWII. They were the size of a small house and it took a team of workers to keep it working.

minds_I

 

[trichrider]

i think you've wigged out dannyboy.

should i be concerned about the science NASA presents? nah they da gubmint.

http://phys.org/news/2012-03-science-merchants-historian.html#nRlv

who's to say? maybe those few who do internet brain transplants huh?

the sun determines climate. always has and always will. what we do or say has little consequence.
the fallacy is believing that the damage to the ozone is irreversible.
the damage is done, cfcs or nuke tests, auto exhausts, deforestation, urban masses breathing...

http://www.livescience.com/18604-cloud-heights-declining.html

The sky is falling… sort of. Over the last 10 years, the height of clouds has been shrinking, according to new research.

The time frame is short, but if future observations show that clouds are truly getting lower, it could have an important effect on global climate change. Clouds that are lower in the atmosphere would allow Earth to cool more efficiently, potentially offsetting some of the warming caused by greenhouse gases.

"We don't know exactly what causes the cloud heights to lower," study researcher Roger Davies of the University of Auckland in New Zealand said in a statement. "But it must be due to a change in the circulation patterns that give rise to cloud formation at high altitude."

Scientists baffled by unusual upper atmosphere shrinkage
But, Emmert said, even taking into account the solar activity and carbon dioxide buildup doesn't fully account for this abnormal collapse.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/16/nasa.upper.atmosphere.shrinking/index.html

i'm not making these up.

http://www.suspicious0bservers.org/spaceweather/
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/01apr_deepsolarminimum/
http://www.southwestclimatechange.org/files/cc/figures/icecore_records.jpg
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html

just an opinion, but those shiny aluminum oxides that reflect the sunlight cooling our planet are dangerous.
aluminum is hydrophillyc (sp). injected into atmosphere it reduces water vapor...you guessed it, causing droughts, changing air and sea currents, altering the jet stream, falling to earth and changing soil PH, not to mention the reduction in sunlight that will decimate crop production.
CO2 is as vital to life as O2.

please refresh the page.

 

[amannamedtruth]

Do you think so?

I do.

Lots of nonsense, backed by rampant distrust for science in general, cause you know, it's like, the government dude. And conspiracies. Remember JFK? I do. He got shot. By aliens.

Fine to rant and rave on a computer, built all by research done by the government, but remember, science can't be trusted especially because its funded by the government...

Come on now.

Of course one needs to be skeptical. Of course, there ARE problems in science, HUGE problems, and one could rightly label certain things that happen as conspiracies, but the way people just outright come off... The absolute insane nature...

And then. If it isn't bad enough, when it comes to science matters, I often see the people giving the science banned, and those who troll those people to oblivion not, and instead they get to offer their nonsense without any ill effect? Sad. Why is there need for intelligent questions, for smart people and smart posts? I know I have no need, when the equals and greaters are exiled or leave

Isn't science inherently doubtful?

 

[bombadil.360]

400 years ago we thought the earth was flat, we also believed that we were the only animal on the planet that reproduced sexually (yes new mice came from hay being left out). Less than 200 years ago doctors didn't wash hands or sterilize instruments. Is that a sufficient argument that Europe doesn't really exist or that doctors are just a bunch of wizards?

wait? what do you mean by "we"?

you obviously have to mean western Europe.

as in the Middle East, India and China, we already knew the earth orbited around the sun and was spherical 1000s of years before your claims.

same goes with sexual reproduction of the species.

same goes with washing hands and instruments prior to any sort of activity, whether medical or simply to cook and eat.

you earned a big zero on the actual history of science.

this is what euro centrism in education does, pitiful.

 

[dagnabit]

have a science problem?

nope..
i can quit anytime i want.
ill quit right after this next Neil DeGrasse Tyson lecture