Dennis Peron Arraigned For Child Porn & Drugs

[mean mr.mustard]

19 was a step in the right direction. if you expect 70+ years of reefer madness and social stigma to disappear from 1 proposition/bill you are naive or delusional. If 19 had said it would free all mj prisoners, people would have jumped on that boat and sank 19 faster then rosie o donnel in a swimming pool with rock shoes.

It was a step that defined a lot of boundaries. I would think it would be better written.

I still don't see what this has to do with Dennis... other than you refer to him as scum and a piece of shit.

Do you understand what he's done for the movement?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Do you understand what he's done for the movement?

He wasnt the ONLY one behind 215. and after his campaign against 19 i have lost what little respect i had for him.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

He wasnt the ONLY one behind 215. and after his campaign against 19 i have lost what little respect i had for him.

So someone who laid a lot of track for good and effective legislation while suffering slings and arrows doesn't deserve respect because..... ??

He didn't like a poorly structured ineffective bill?

 

[zenoonez]

So someone who laid a lot of track for good and effective legislation while suffering slings and arrows doesn't deserve respect because..... ??

He didn't like a poorly structured ineffective bill?

No you are missing the point. Anyone that disagrees with BHT doesn't deserve respect from him because reasonable people can't disagree. Glad I could clear this up for you.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

So someone who laid a lot of track for good and effective legislation while suffering slings and arrows doesn't deserve respect because..... ??

He didn't like a poorly structured ineffective bill?

Ineffective? Like the way it legalized possession and cultivation? or the way it legalized sales? or the way it would have help erase the social stigma associated with cannabis?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

No you are missing the point. Anyone that disagrees with BHT doesn't deserve respect from him because reasonable people can't disagree. Glad I could clear this up for you.

Everyone says its a bad bill. But no one can point to a single reason why. Ive asked you this question and you have yet to relay a valid argument that hasnt been based on misinformation

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Ineffective? Like the way it legalized possession and cultivation? or the way it legalized sales? or the way it would have help erase the social stigma associated with cannabis?

Ineffective like the way it didn't get enough votes.

I'm sure the way it legalized cultivation pissed off quite a few.

The way it legalized sales was looser than Paris Hilton.

And as for social stigma I'm pretty sure our own calling one of our heros a piece of shit and discounting half of IC as greedy scumbags is more of a sign that social stigma won't wash off.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

It did nothing to release former offenders. It would have continued putting people in jail for cannabis.

What exactly is misinformed about this?

 

[headiez247]

Except 19 was a nothing-to-lose win/win situation.

There is almost no political document made that is a "nothing-to-lose, win win" situation. Anything that effects millions of people is going to have a downside for someone. It may be a win win for you, but no way is anything introduced to legislature win win for everyone.

meth isn't that bad and should remain schedule 2.

HAHAHA.

 

[zenoonez]

Everyone says its a bad bill. But no one can point to a single reason why. Ive asked you this question and you have yet to relay a valid argument that hasnt been based on misinformation

No you have explained away any "reason" as being "based on misinformation" because you are Cooley and you are the one going to be interpreting the laws I forgot you were a judge too. You have an interpretation of the law as written. I happen to agree that what you think the law says is what it was meant to say. However, whether the law really means what we think it was meant to say or not is not up to us, it is up to lawyers and judges. You yourself remarked about the vagueness of 215 leading to all the controversy over the legality of sales and dispensaries. So vague language in 215 leads to controversy and vague language in 19 equals never going to cause a problem, got it. Get real man. People disagree with you on the strength of the wording and the ideals of the law. The difference between the two of us is that I think you deserve respect whether you agree with me or not. You seem to think no one deserves respect unless they share your thoughts.

 

[vta]

There is almost no political document made that is a "nothing-to-lose, win win" situation. Anything that effects millions of people is going to have a downside for someone. It may be a win win for you, but no way is anything introduced to legislature win win for everyone.

care to enlighten us as to what there was to lose?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

What exactly is misinformed about this?

Should 19 have cleaned your house, taken the garbage out and prepare dinner too?

You guys have to be reasonable with legalization. You cant expect it to do EVERYTHING you want and still have a chance of gaining enough votes to pass.

Can you imagine if it allowed prisoners to be released? The opposition would have had a field day making these people out to be blood thirsty child molesting murders who would have sent society into chaos upon their release. Not to mention the amount of court time it would have taken to review all these cases individually would have been immense and another reason to vote against it.

Like I said we have to start somewhere and comprimise on some things that would make it a failure before it was even voted on. Be realistic. 19 wasnt the end all be all and couldn't possibly have repaired 70+ years of prohibition. But it was a step in the right direction, most importantly showing politicians and the rest of the world that people are ready for the legalization of marijauna. Its going to take time, work and alot of patience to get to full legalization. Its goint to take multiple steps and will never be acheived overnight. The sooner you learn this, the sooner we will be able to reach the legalization we have all envisioned....

 

[headiez247]

care to enlighten us as to what there was to lose?

I love to enlighten.

First off, I was neither for nor against 19. I had mixed feelings about it. So, (unlike you and BiG H3rB Tr3E) I don't have an agenda one way or the other. I was just commenting on the fact that making a statement about something that large being a win-win is false as ultimately, someone suffers regardless of which way it goes.

In this case, like it or not, just off the top of my head I can think of two groups that get affected negatively- small to medium sized growers who depend on bud to make a living, and youth who would start smoking and being exposed to pot at far too young of an age.

So, win win in your eyes perhaps, but certainly not win win for everyone involved.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

I love to enlighten.

First off, I was neither for nor against 19. I had mixed feelings about it. So, (unlike you and BiG H3rB Tr3E) I don't have an agenda one way or the other. I was just commenting on the fact that making a statement about something that large being a win-win is false as ultimately, someone suffers regardless of which way it goes.

In this case, like it or not, just off the top of my head I can think of two groups that get affected negatively- small to medium sized growers who depend on bud to make a living, and youth who would start smoking and being exposed to pot at far too young of an age.

So, win win in your eyes perhaps, but certainly not win win for everyone involved.

This is one of the few cases that it was win/win. Nobody would have been harmed with 19 and it stood to do alot of good for alot of people...

Group 1: Takes their knowledge and experience, starts an LLC, pays taxes and earns a legitimate income without fear of arrest. There is far more money to be made in a legal market than an illegal one. That is why alcohol and tobacco are mega-multi billion dollar markets in a legal industry.

Group 2: Already says that marijuana is far easier to access than alcohol or tobacco. 85% of children 14-18 say hey can get marijuana within a day. 45% say they can get it within an hour. If marijuana was regulated like alcohol or tobacco, it would be much more difficult for these children to get marijuana. Would they still be able to get it? Probably. But within enough time more people would legitimize their position in the industry and they would not want to risk it by selling nickles, dimes and grams to minors.

 

[headiez247]

This is one of the few cases that it was win/win. Nobody would have been harmed with 19 and it stood to do alot of good for alot of people...

Group 1: Takes their knowledge and experience, starts an LLC, pays taxes and earns a legitimate income without fear of arrest.

That's like saying anyone who is unemployed just isn't trying hard enough because they could just start their own business. You really think that every grower in California would be able to afford to not only pay taxes on the pot but also be able to survive the crashing value of bud and still survive to form their own LLC? No. And the tax issue is a whole different category. Supporters think that if it passed, suddenly all growers would start paying a huge tax on bud grown? Noooo way man. No way. Most people would still be growing in hidden spots, basements, attics etc. They aren't just going to start sending cash to the government when a prop passes.

Group 2: Already says that marijuana is far easier to access than alcohol or tobacco. 85% of children 14-18 say hey can get marijuana within a day. 45% say they can get it within an hour. If marijuana was regulated like alcohol or tobacco, it would be much more difficult for these children to get marijuana. Would they still be able to get it? Probably. But within enough time more people would legitimize their position in the industry and they would not want to risk selling minors nickle, dimes and grams...

Right, so if the rates are already that high, fully legalizing marijuana will not only indicate to them that it's harmless, but increase those numbers even more. The position that it would be harder for 14-18 year olds to get weed if it was legalized just doesn't stand. Do people who are underage have problems getting alcohol? Not even slightly.

There is far more money to be made in a legal market than an illegal one. That is why alcohol and tobacco are mega-multi billion dollar markets in a legal industry.

Alcohol and tobacco are run by a select few gigantic companies that control the entire market. This just proves my point more so. All the small/medium guys would be pushed out, and it would be owned by conglomerates, which is already happening up in Oakland.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

That's like saying anyone who is unemployed just isn't trying hard enough because they could just start their own business. You really think that every grower in California would be able to afford to not only pay taxes on the pot but also be able to survive the crashing value of bud and still survive to form their own LLC? No. And the tax issue is a whole different category. Supporters think that if it passed, suddenly all growers would start paying a huge tax on bud grown? Noooo way man. No way. Most people would still be growing in hidden spots, basements, attics etc. They aren't just going to start sending cash to the government when a prop passes.




Right, so if the rates are already that high, fully legalizing marijuana will not only indicate to them that it's harmless, but increase those numbers even more. The position that it would be harder for 14-18 year olds to get weed if it was legalized just doesn't stand. Do people who are underage have problems getting alcohol? Not even slightly.


Alcohol and tobacco are run by a select few gigantic companies that control the entire market. This just proves my point more so. All the small/medium guys would be pushed out, and it would be owned by conglomerates, which is already happening up in Oakland.

The crashing value? I just dont see it happening. Prices might drop, but not by so much it wouldnt be worth producing. Otherwise nobody would even bother growing anymore. You also have to take into account that demand would rise because anyone who is of 21+ would be allowed to purchase marijuana, not just CA residents, but all the tourists and people who would come to CA because of legal marijuana. If growers couldnt form an LLC then they could partner up with other growers to come up with the necessary funds to start a business.

Secondly to suggest that it would be harder for minors to obtain marijuana in a illegal market opposed to a legal industry that requires I.D. to make a purchase is obsurd. Can minors get alcohol? Yes. But its because they either steal it from their parents or they beg someone to buy it for them. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal, do any of them think its harmless? At least marijuana is a far safer substance then either of those drugs should they choose to use it. In the netherlands where marijuana is tolerated, the use rate for children under 18 is around 12% compared to united states (where marijuana is illegal) whoich maintains a 45% use rate.

You have a point about tobacco, but that only because it takes a massive amount of money to produce and distribute ciggarettes. You can look to the alcohol industry that boasts thousands upon thousands of companies who produce and distribute beers, wines, and liquors. There are thousands of strains of marijuana, that can be produced a variety of different methods. Thus, making it far easier for botique and craft growers to produce their wares and make a excellent living doing so.


....any more brain busters?

 

[subrob]

mustard and zeno....just because you can make good arguments doesnt mean you werent wrong....have either of you considered that? i considered it...this issue has devolved into two things...people like me not caring anymore and calling people like you traitors in a wildly rude immature and im sure, completely annoying fashion...and people like you and big herb tree making arguments over and over that neither will win or back down from...the difference is: he has the moral ground as far as smokers are concerned...if this would have been closer...if this vote would have been lost due to just the greedy cocksuckers lining thier pockets...i would probably have been driven mad and given up on the very idea of a growing community...matter a fact...im close to it...the very idea of the cali scene has been shown for what it truly has become...ha..ironic isnt it? and dennis being a tweaker, if this is the case...just the most ironic fukn...well anyways...EDITED BY SUBROB SOUNDED LIKE PERSONAL POINT...next time right? 2012.... thats the key...next time..i know...its gonna be better..cuz you and other californians are gonna get out there...oh wait..im being an asshole again...and for those who are worried about money taking over the industry...haha...you must not be in cali...its already done...who would have thunk it...hippies are hippies til they come up w a good logo and a pitch...we are about to get hit and get hit hard...but it will all get better in 2012.....
---folks...i am truly honestly going to do my best to end the personal attacks on those of you who are not on my team...i really am..this issue has turned me into a bitter angry muthrfukr who is so disillusioned with the community i have identified w for most of my life...i honestly dont know what to do...i realize there arent that many of you out there...and alot of you didnt vote, shit, a bunch of you arent even from cali.....shit..maybe im just too old now...maybe the ideals i grew up with are just gone...anyways...blow me shitheads...im out...

 

[subrob]

but one thing i am having a whole lot of trouble letting go...and i swear it is not personal...i am just really curious...its done w now right? this is strictly for all of our benefit...the whole idea of letting everyone convicted and sentenced out of prison...i have seen a number of posters say w out this they vote no...has this ever happened in the united states? for anything? hand to god i am not being an asshole....i think i asked every single poster who stated this what precedence(precedents?) there was for this idea...not a single one responded...vta...you seem to be educated, or at the least, interested, in the law...whats the issue w that? other then the fact that...well..there i go...almost made a smart ass remark...i seem to remember there being constitutional issues w this? i cant remember..it was the eighties when i was still holding onto the idea it would ever happen..i swear that wasnt a shot...i was young, and maybe im wrong...but is that even possible in this country?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Subrob if you think you're disenchanted, look around you.

We all are.

Most of us are horrified by the dissent and division of our community.

You say that BHT has the moral high ground as far as smokers are concerned.

I say that BHT is the primary figure pointing his finger at his own.

I believe every grower deserves respect and a firm handshake.

If you don't then you don't have a clue what this community is about.

If there are pieces of shit scumbags who need to blow you, I would think that's probably not where you would want to hang your hat.

If ther are likeminded growers uniting for a common cause, I could see why it'd be enticing.

A little bit of love and a lot less hate can really help right about now.

 

[subrob]

you believe every grower deserves respect and a handshake....hmmm...and if i dont then i dont have a clue what this community is about...maybe man..maybe.....i used to think that too...but i live here in cali...im not saying your input on what was a cali issue wasnt/isnt important...i believe firmly this was about so much more than cali...but this scene has gone to shit...the divisions money has caused, are likely, irreprable(?)...and dont tell me its not, this subject on this sight was the perfect....whats the word?...microcosm? i dunno, and im too fukn tired to look it up...its over...again....it wasnt just the fault of the already corporate growers....thank god...but as far as im concerned...it might as well have been...but its all good...its a new day...and im seriously considering joining the other side....maybe its time for me to get mine-fuck the cause, as so many of the people YOU sided with do and did.......ive sacrificed quite a bit over the last two and a half decades...worked my ass off....maybe the world has passed me by and its time to let you young folks w the new attitudes and ideas take over...good luck in what im sure will be a valiant effort on your part to get canna legalized in cali...