Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[huntingbb]

lets take a look at another high-yield technique:

topping
*take chunk of plant off - usually a few nodes - sometimes many, usually main stalk, sometimes many
**result: slowed to stopped growth for a few days

IT IS NOT THE SLOWED GROWTH THAT MATTERS HERE RIGHT???

ITS THE EXPLOSIVE GROWTH THAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT MORE THAN MAKES UP FOR IT!!!

***MAYBE THE SAME HERE!***

 

[medmaker420]

lets take a look at another high-yield technique:

topping
*take chunk of plant off - usually a few nodes - sometimes many, usually main stalk, sometimes many
**result: slowed to stopped growth for a few days

IT IS NOT THE SLOWED GROWTH THAT MATTERS HERE RIGHT???

ITS THE EXPLOSIVE GROWTH THAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT MORE THAN MAKES UP FOR IT!!!

***MAYBE THE SAME HERE!***

that makes sense I suppose, most things we do to these girls stresses them or removes a part of them anyways so why is this such a sore topic for so many?

 

[bs0]

From my experience removing more than 50% will stall their growth for several days. Some people might want this.
Removing around 10% every few days doesn't seem to slow them at all. So on a small plant that may only be a few leaves, but on a large plant you might pluck 10-20 at once.
It's obvious that the buds getting direct light develop better than the shaded ones.
If you have multiple lights and great penetration you probably don't need to defoliate. I run vertical with 1k in the middle and plants circled around, defol definitely helps. I just take off the leaves on the inside of the circle that would block penetration. The ones on the back side are left alone as they shade nothing. It's all about which leaves to take off, how many, and when. I wouldn't defol any where near the 12/12 switch. Wait a few weeks before and after as that is not the time to stress and slow them. Also if you need a fast veg, don't defol much at a time. I veg 2 months sometimes and need to keep them smaller, so lot's of defol works great to help them slow down and fill out.

Great post, thanks! I've been considering converting to vert myself. I had wondered how much vert could benefit.

 

[Happy Haole]

It's like taking 50% of your solar panels off and thinking you're gonna get more power. I call BS. Yeah, your lower buds are gonna get more light but no way you're getting more end weight.
If we removed all the crazy advise given(this, spike thru stalk, etc.), we'd have alot less to read though. LOL

 

[delta9nxs]

Well, after reading the recent developments on this thread i'm going to put up a few pics as an illustration of what defoliation has done for me.

None of these are “side by sides” as I don't do unit grows.

I harvest a plant a week, perpetual style.

So I can show pics of plants that have been run the same exact way except for defoliation.

I grow small trees with good lighting so you can't call this a bonsai technique.

Pictures, whether they are of side by side plants or of consecutive plants or plants that were grown weeks apart, cannot show true weight. There is no one that can tell the actual weight of a plant by looking at it.

You can just provide relative size indicators and allow the viewer to make their own decisions. And all you can do is report weight.

You can use my 5 gallon buckets as relative indicators if you like. Or perhaps a yardstick in the foliage. Or maybe put several plants in front of a 36” wide door.

I think you all will agree that these things I have mentioned are acceptable relative indicators.

In addition to that I keep accurate weight records expressly so that I can track the differences my changes make.

So I can show you a few plants and tell you how much they weighed. And that's all I can really do as this is a pot site and it is still illegal in most places.

But this still meets the scientific criteria of qualifying as empirical data. This is defined as data that has been gained from measurement and/or observation. Either measurement or observation alone are acceptable for presentation.

I have measured and observed very carefully.

All you real scientists out there know that in the scientific world one party makes claims and puts up evidence and arguments and then other, interested parties who may want to prove or disprove something try parallel or similar experiments in an attempt to replicate results to satisfy themselves.

Why should the world of cannabis be any different?

If you want to prove or disprove this try it for yourselves. It is the only way to really know.

Meanwhile here are a few pics.

This first series has been put up on this thread before but seems to have been forgotten or purposefully ignored.

In this post you see the same plant. It was vegged 8 weeks without defoliation. Then flowered to the end of stretch without defoliation.

At that point I radically defoliated the plant by removing every fan leaf that had a stem. I left single stemless leaves growing out of bud sites. All re-leafing you see in the final series of photos occurred after defoliation.

So, two pics before DF'ing, two pics after, and four pics just before cutting and trimming.

The plant was dried to the point where large bud stems snap.

It weighed 18.38 oz's dry.

It was and still is the largest single plant i've ever grown.

This is a reprint of an earlier post showing some numbers;






k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!

i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.

so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.

my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.

a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.

i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.

at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.

thanks k33ftr33z!
__________________
Passive Plant Killer

these figures are accurate!

Since the 8th of august I have not had a plant under 14 oz's. Some were over 16 oz's. I would say i'm averaging around 15.5 oz's per plant now with defoliating.

Sincerely, delta9nxs

...

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, head! how, hi are you?

actually, as i run a perpetual harvest scheme, one plant in and one plant out every week, those figures are from single plants harvested one week apart over ten consecutive weeks. five before DF, five after.

my grow environment is totally under control and fairly constant.

since i began using this technique i have not harvested a plant under 14 oz's.

before utilizing it my largest plant was around 12.5 oz's. average about 8-10 oz's.

so, i can say that it has greatly improved my yield done this way, which is at the end of stretch only. one time.

i use strong vertical lighting. see my thread for details of how i grow.

i have run a series of plants through like this, maybe 10 or 12 by now and my weights are consistently higher.

about five weeks ago i began DF'ing at onset of flower and again at 21 days. looks promising. i will have results from the first in a few weeks.

in a effort to be as fair as possible i have begun DF'ing in veg starting at the end of the second week. we'll see.

at this point i think that there is more going on than just light. knna stated earlier that he thinks a sudden all over DF'ing produces some type of hormonal change. i think so, too.

later, d9

you know, you are right about peoples reactions to a name describing a technique. i guess DEFOLIATION sounds like MURDER or RAPE or SACRILEGE to some people.

maybe we should call it "the happy result from lovingly de-leafing" thread. might not inflame as many folks.

d9

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[delta9nxs]

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[delta9nxs]

more

 

[TruthOrLie]

I just don't get what's so difficult about doing a simple side by side.

You have 6 plants, defoliate 5. Leave 1 alone.

Or even better, you have 3 plants. Don't defoliate 1.

Or maybe you have 2 plants. Don't defoliate 1.

Real simple.

I would do the side by side myself, but I got grey mold on the last plant I defoliated, so obviously I don't know what I'm doing.

BTW, the plant that I _didn't_ defoliate did NOT develop grey mold.

 

[delta9nxs]

sorry, everyone! i feel slighted. ignored. neglected. i just need some attention. i'm bored. i don't have anything else to do so i thought i would come over here and fuck with some folks. i am so unrequited!

here are repeats of several posts and some photos that i've posted earlier. sorry for the redundancy but a few folks want to pretend that they do not exist.

specifically, TruthorLie, jwp, blunt 69. OGmolton, happy haole, and halitzor.

gentlemen, please respond to my posts here and tell me where i screwed up.

 

[TruthOrLie]

The pics look great delta 9.

Problem with me is I'm not growing plants nearly that size. If I was, maybe you would be of more help.

I couldn't really tell you what leaving the leaves on the plant would have done for you, there was no side by side to compare.

You claim you increased yields because you defoliated?

Great!

I claim I decreased yields because I defoliated.

Sucks for me, right?

 

[delta9nxs]

The pics look great delta 9.

Problem with me is I'm not growing plants nearly that size. If I was, maybe you would be of more help.

I couldn't really tell you what leaving the leaves on the plant would have done for you, there was no side by side to compare.

You claim you increased yields because you defoliated?

Great!

I claim I decreased yields because I defoliated.

Sucks for me, right?

lets start with post 1905 shall we? i state that the 10 plants were run consecutively, i give their weights, then show pictures of what i call the biggest plant i've ever grown in my life. inherent in that statement is the realization that, in ten years, i have never grown a heavier yielding plant. this plant was defoliated just as i described. every leaf that had a visible petiole was removed.

i also explained why i can't run a side by side. but my conditions are very stable. temps, humidity, fertilizer program, lighting, strain, veg time, flower time, are very carefully controlled at all times. for a complete rundown and a lot more pics go to my thread.

i have now run a lot more plants using various approaches to defoliating and am getting good results consistently. last weeks plant went 16 oz's. it was defoliated at beginning of flower and again at 21-23 days.

i've just cut another one that's still wet that will run over 18 again. same treatment.

you know, the funny thing is that i totally believe you when you say that you decreased yields by defoliating. why won't you believe me when i tell you that i increased yields?

you have zero successful experience yet repeatedly attack those who are getting results.

you are not qualified to even review the technique much less "warn" those thinking about trying it.

maybe if you opened your eyes and ask one of these nice adults for help you might improve your technique.

you try it once and fail and now you are an expert.

 

[bs0]

It's like taking 50% of your solar panels off and thinking you're gonna get more power. I call BS. Yeah, your lower buds are gonna get more light but no way you're getting more end weight.
If we removed all the crazy advise given(this, spike thru stalk, etc.), we'd have alot less to read though. LOL

In response to your analogy, how much good do ten solar panels all stacked on top of eachother do?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

In response to your analogy, how much good do ten solar panels all stacked on top of eachother do?

(assuming 'stacked on top of' does not mean 'stacked physically where each solar panel is resting completely on the panel below it' but means 'in a column where each solar panel is some distance above the panel beneath it')

depends how many suns you have =]

 

[geekusa]

In response to your analogy, how much good do ten solar panels all stacked on top of eachother do?

I think we could make our point until we are blue in the face, and some people will just never believe.

All the best to them, but I would personally hate to trim a plant at the end that had never been defoliated, I couldn't imagine the nightmare.

 

[bs0]

The pics look great delta 9.

Problem with me is I'm not growing plants nearly that size. If I was, maybe you would be of more help.

I couldn't really tell you what leaving the leaves on the plant would have done for you, there was no side by side to compare.

You claim you increased yields because you defoliated?

Great!

I claim I decreased yields because I defoliated.

Sucks for me, right?

I think you missed the point. If you defol one plant that is not crowded, what good do you do? Did you take one small plant and defol it? I grow very tightly packed plants.

You realize I was the one who first brought up the "mold concern" in this thread? In the 8.5 months I have been doing this I have yet to develop any mold issues. (13 harvests) my understanding of what causes mold is high atmospheric humidity (and a food source), and as was brought up by a previous poster (mistress?), removal of leaves reduces transpiration which reduces humidity which should in theory reduce the probability of mold. What were your environmental controls set at? Do you run a dehumidifier? I'm not saying your experience is impossible, I would just like more information.

 

[Mr Apricot]

This post redefines my mind! I am baffled!

 

[delta9nxs]

In response to your analogy, how much good do ten solar panels all stacked on top of eachother do?

hey bso! what is the sound of one hand clapping? you are wasting your time, buddy!

the folks who don't try it themselves will never know what happens to the plant.

when you are trimming and the buds are so much more dense and heavy, when even what would normally be fluff ends up being little hard marbles that go into the bag and add 2 zips to production per plant, when you do a series of them, all heavier than any non- defoliated plants that you have ever personally done, then you will realize the benefit of this technique.

may i suggest that those using the ubiquitous LOL or the commonplace LMFAO or any of the other mundane expressions of derision as they ridicule this thread don't do their laughing in the drive thru at the local bank. the tellers think i'm out of my muthafukin' mind, laughing hysterically at the huge raise i got at work using defoliating.

 

[Classic Seeds]

hi delta do not let the doubter bring you down this does work for puffing up those pop corn buds i am just to space deprived to mess with this in any serious manner but i allways get rid of all my shade leafs the 4 week of flower and what you are saying works keep up the great pictures and posts aloha classic seeds

 

[delta9nxs]

hi delta do not let the doubter bring you down this does work for puffing up those pop corn buds i am just to space deprived to mess with this in any serious manner but i allways get rid of all my shade leafs the 4 week of flower and what you are saying works keep up the great pictures and posts aloha classic seeds

thank you! no one can bring me down. i'm too busy digging the scene and having a good time spending my defoliating money on expensive toys and dinners with my beautiful wife.

did i mention i'm buying land and building a house? i figure with my defoliating money i should do a little long term investing now that i can afford it.

lmfao!

take care, bro! i've been planning on giving your beans a try. you've got some neat looking stuff.