Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[TruthOrLie]

LOL.

Okay, so I try a method for the first time.

For the first time I get grey mold.

But that's because of my environmental conditions?

So it has nothing to do with the defoliation method?

Are you living in denial?

Just because you have ideal conditions for grey mold, or spider mites, or powder mildew to thrive does not mean you will get these diseases and pests.

The first line of defense is a healthy plant.

 

[mrdizzle]

Ive been doing all sorts of experiments with the defloi tech. from what i have found, during veg, plucking a couple leafs a plant, every 5 days or so, doesnt slow growth at all. it also helps big time with popping new budsites

I did a full defoli on a couple plants at flip, they came out 6oz lighter and a foot shorter than the rest. my goal now is to not shock the plants, a few calculated leaf plucks once a week or so allows light in, but doesnt hurt the plant.

Im not in favor of a full pluck, it just rocks the plant too much, and really isnt needed IMO, you gotta pluck some unless you like hash

 

[bs0]

LOL.

Okay, so I try a method for the first time.

For the first time I get grey mold.

But that's because of my environmental conditions?

So it has nothing to do with the defoliation method?

Are you living in denial?

Just because you have ideal conditions for grey mold, or spider mites, or powder mildew to thrive does not mean you will get these diseases and pests.

The first line of defense is a healthy plant.

Stabilize your environment.
I have no idea what I could be in "denial" of.
My room is 82*, 50%, and has 5 fans for circulation. All computer controlled.
If you understood the mechanics of plant respiration in even the most basic sense you would know that the two events that you are attempting to correlate are impossible to relate.
Now: I wish you would have had better luck. Sorry you did not, perhaps you should either practice more or give up. You are getting emotional about this and reacting in strange ways.

You should NEVER get mold. If you get mold the problem is your room, not your training method.

 

[bs0]

Ive been doing all sorts of experiments with the defloi tech. from what i have found, during veg, plucking a couple leafs a plant, every 5 days or so, doesnt slow growth at all. it also helps big time with popping new budsites

I did a full defoli on a couple plants at flip, they came out 6oz lighter and a foot shorter than the rest. my goal now is to not shock the plants, a few calculated leaf plucks once a week or so allows light in, but doesnt hurt the plant.

Im not in favor of a full pluck, it just rocks the plant too much, and really isnt needed IMO, you gotta pluck some unless you like hash

This is exactly why I don't defol pre-stretch. What you are doing is smart, each plant responds differently and taking it slowly is the best way to find the sweet spot. I had an off-harvest when I was learning due to overzealous leaf removal. If the plant is shocked your harvest will suffer, especially if you negate a portion of the stretch period.

 

[JWP]

Ive been doing all sorts of experiments with the defloi tech. from what i have found, during veg, plucking a couple leafs a plant, every 5 days or so, doesnt slow growth at all. it also helps big time with popping new budsites

I did a full defoli on a couple plants at flip, they came out 6oz lighter and a foot shorter than the rest. my goal now is to not shock the plants, a few calculated leaf plucks once a week or so allows light in, but doesnt hurt the plant.

Im not in favor of a full pluck, it just rocks the plant too much, and really isnt needed IMO, you gotta pluck some unless you like hash

6oz lighter and a foot shorter.. You know you are only going to loose but you still want to do it. ohh i defoliated a lot and lost, so i'm only going to defoliate a little & somehow i will miraculously gain. Defoliation logic..

Think of your yeild as like a bottle of water. You spill a drop here you spill a drop there, it adds up. Just because you didnt spill half the bottle (6oz) and can clearly see the difference doesnt mean that you have not lost.

But you have to lst aswell, But you have to veg a month longer than normal, But this, But that... But bullshit

Wake up people defoliation does NOT increase yeild!

Like the great SamS says; show me what you have seen to be true not what you wish to be true

 

[halitzor]

The growing shoots should usually be left on the plant, since that's where all the bud sites would have been. I haven't heard anyone advocating removing bud sites. It may just take a little bit for your plants to recreate those shoots.

I don't need to recreate them. The plants aren't needed for anything.

 

[dramamine]

6oz lighter and a foot shorter.. You know you are only going to loose but you still want to do it. ohh i defoliated a lot and lost, so i'm only going to defoliate a little & somehow i will miraculously gain. Defoliation logic..

Think of your yeild as like a bottle of water. You spill a drop here you spill a drop there, it adds up. Just because you didnt spill half the bottle (6oz) and can clearly see the difference doesnt mean that you have not lost.

But you have to lst aswell, But you have to veg a month longer than normal, But this, But that... But bullshit

Wake up people defoliation does NOT increase yeild!

Like the great SamS says; show me what you have seen to be true not what you wish to be true

Man, there are so many photos and so much information on this thread documenting people's success with this technique, so maybe stop quoting respectable people out of context. This entire thread was premised on K33f "showing what he's seen to be true", so your SamS quote is unfortunately misused here...

 

[Scrogerman]

lol, Some mad argumants going on.
I can only say it has a place for me, i defoliate the underside of my screen(ScrOG, remove minimal problem leaves from the top half, but i still de-foliate, i have to(canopy density).
What about Fungal spores etc, as far as i know they need an open wound to bloom, just like the sort of wound left by removing leaves. I am always aware of this(Paranoid about it) & am very weary of removing anything after 28days of 12/12, thats as far as i'd go with de-fol, who's had results removing in later bloom, id be interested in hearing what you got to say on the issue.
Does anyone know the exact conditions that cause Budrot/Botrytis in respects of spores & what causes them to bloom. I think you'll find it isnt just humidity & moisture saturation that causes it to go off, Leaf removal in mid to late bloom could help to cause a Botrytis outbreak, the open wound left behind is the perfect nursery for botrytis spores, id of thought especially dangerous around larger fatter Colas, this is always a concern for me but i dont know enough about it.

 

[bs0]

Wake up people defoliation does NOT increase yeild!

Then don't do it.

Simple?

Defol got me over 1 gpw, and I don't pre-train. I was never asleep, and no matter how aggressively you tell me that my experience is false it doesn't change my experience.

A shaded leaf produces no sugars, a shaded budsite never develops.

Yield is a glass of water? What is the 'glass full' gpw? Your analogy does not make sense.

Have you ever shocked a plant? I have shocked plants many different ways: over-nute, too hot @ transplant, over-defol, underwatering... When you are taking things to the limit you take risks. I have continually advocated taking things slowly and learning how this method affects different strains before haphazardly stripping all the fan leaves from a plant.

Exactly what do you think that we have to gain by sharing our experiences? Do you think we are out to kill all marijuana plants? That we are trying to sabotage everyone else's experiences? Why would I not then just tell people to sever their plants off at the ground? Think for a minute.

The poster you are responding to had a bad experience. He related what he did and what the result was. Personally I *appreciate* him relating what happened to him. Losing 6z is really shitty. I hope that he never has that happen to him again. He reinforced what many here have said: do not defol a flowering plant pre-stretch.

Did you have a bad experience with defol? If so, what did you do and what was the result? I would like to gain your knowledge if you have. If you have not, and are only here thread-crapping because it seems counterintuitive to you, please tell me your method of getting over 1 gpw. But please do so in an original thread so I can come and learn from you.

 

[dramamine]

I'm wondering if sprouts will start popping out again? I just did this yesterday.

That's cool, then. I was just responding to your question above. Peace

 

[JWP]

Man, there are so many photos and so much information on this thread documenting people's success with this technique, so maybe stop quoting respectable people out of context. This entire thread was premised on K33f "showing what he's seen to be true", so your SamS quote is unfortunately misused here...

I and many others have not seen one ounce of documented success in the whole 126 pages of this thread. What we have seen is evidence contradicting the claim that defoliation inceases yeild provided by the very people that claim it works. How ironic..

I'm guessing in my case as much as 20%-30% gains by employing this method.

My only concern is with dense buds... sometimes you try to get the leaf out and the stem is left behind and I think that is conducive to budrot.

You said this on the 1st page of the thread 7 months ago.
On the second page of the thread Centrum asked for a side by side.
Like you didnt know when you make a sensational claim of %30 increase in yeild that people will want some sort of evidence. 7 months later and still nothing solid. Just images of massacred plants..

 

[Scrogerman]

Anyone got any thoughts here, Bottomhalf the plant is completely stripped of foliage, the top 1/3 has been well left alone but ill prolly remove a few problematic leaves than are causing shading problems, prolly 5% of the leaves left, if i take anymore it would surley be counter productive, What would you guys do now, day 22-24 of 12/12(i cant remember the start date lol!)

 

[JWP]

It takes preparation and an extra week or two. Extra time in veg should be inconsequential in the long run as veg is a constant operation

Extra time in veg...

I took basically all the fan leaves at day 30. It did stall the plants for a few days

stall the plants..

you do slow the growth a bit as part of the process but that can beneficial

slow growth = beneficial? wtf

and maybe get a little more yield

maybe hi-yield technique?

Even I have to admit how sad they look without the glorious leafage

Glad we agree on something

what about reversals? would a more sensitive variety be more prone to reversal with your technique?

I've only seen reversal a couple of times ever but it could not be attributed to this. I think that is a genetic thing. Some try to attribute something like that to stress but in a dynamic gene pool it would be quite logical to have a few that tended to reversal or hermaphrodism.

This technique has been used continuously on several varieties for years. No sign of stress or unusual behavior have been observed.

Is that a couple of times or no times?
Most plants have intersex genes that are just waiting for the right enviromental conditions to be expressed. Defoliation is exactly the sort of stress that will express intersex genes.

if your strains are prone to hermi, then DO NOT strip them.

More than 60% of ALL cannabis plants have intersex genes.

Several posters have suggested that they would like to see a side by side. Unfortunately it is not as easy as that. Defoliation allows plants to intertwine. It is not advisable to defoliate and train one and allow the neighboring plant to leaf out and get tall. The leafy one will shade out direct and reflective light and the comparison would be invalid.

It is impossible to prove defoliation increases yeild because it doesnt. That is the real reason no one has done a side by side.

It's true that this has not necessarily introduced a groundbreaking increase in yield.

So let all just stress the plants, stall growth, & veg longer for what reason again?

20%-30% gains by employing this method.

30% claim..

without this method 2lbs per 1k would be the goal. now it's 4lbs!

100% claim!..

I don't get too scientific about it.

I dont think any of you do..

Some have suggested something about hormones stimulated by leaf removal. That's possible. I don't have that kind of scientific background or knowledge.

stimulated? i feel a hermie comming on..

In all the discussion there has not been a single example of any damage done.

Its hard to believe we are reading the same thread

Its as equally hard to believe your advice to the grower of this plant is to let it grow for 7-10 days and then remove more leaves that are blocking budsites as needed.

 

[gardenbug]

From my experience removing more than 50% will stall their growth for several days. Some people might want this.
Removing around 10% every few days doesn't seem to slow them at all. So on a small plant that may only be a few leaves, but on a large plant you might pluck 10-20 at once.
It's obvious that the buds getting direct light develop better than the shaded ones.
If you have multiple lights and great penetration you probably don't need to defoliate. I run vertical with 1k in the middle and plants circled around, defol definitely helps. I just take off the leaves on the inside of the circle that would block penetration. The ones on the back side are left alone as they shade nothing. It's all about which leaves to take off, how many, and when. I wouldn't defol any where near the 12/12 switch. Wait a few weeks before and after as that is not the time to stress and slow them. Also if you need a fast veg, don't defol much at a time. I veg 2 months sometimes and need to keep them smaller, so lot's of defol works great to help them slow down and fill out.

 

[dramamine]

JWP,

Everything you've just cut and pasted from the thread was out of context and/or severely misunderstood. What is your motivation? There used to be a lot of good discussion and experimentation on this thread. Damn, gotta figure out this filter function now. Good luck on your quest, whatever it is...

 

[Natagonnaworrie]

ha ha i read that guys whole post and then almost fell off my chair and pissed myself when i read the quote in his sig... talk about irony...

 

[dramamine]

hehehe!

 

[goldeneye]

JPW

i know im new to the forum and all and m really jus soaking up as much knowledge as i can about different methods and things i may want to embark on one i get a few grows under my belt. but dude i have the expierence to say u truly go against everything marijuana stands for. peace, serenity, calm, positive energy, and an open mind jus to name a few. whats your deal bruh? a simple post stating your opinion on the matter is all that would have been needed. y all the negativity??? truly man.........quit. its very childish and unnecessary to carry on in the manner that you are. if you dont agree with the method/grow expierence of another y bother even coming back to the thread and doing such a thorough research jus to bash it man... not cool. i deal with direct marketing for a living and on a daily basis see how a poor attitude, and a closed mind can ruin a day or worse the individual. jus cool man. light up a fat one n take ur thoughts elsewhere where they may be positive and put to a better use... thanks

 

[poipu79]

What about Fungal spores etc, as far as i know they need an open wound to bloom, just like the sort of wound left by removing leaves. I am always aware of this(Paranoid about it) & am very weary of removing anything after 28days of 12/12, thats as far as i'd go with de-fol, who's had results removing in later bloom, id be interested in hearing what you got to say on the issue.
Does anyone know the exact conditions that cause Budrot/Botrytis in respects of spores & what causes them to bloom. I think you'll find it isnt just humidity & moisture saturation that causes it to go off, Leaf removal in mid to late bloom could help to cause a Botrytis outbreak, the open wound left behind is the perfect nursery for botrytis spores, id of thought especially dangerous around larger fatter Colas, this is always a concern for me but i dont know enough about it.

well i read the whole thing in a week maybe 2...of all the negatives mentioned with this method the above by scrogerman is the one that ime is true 100 % of the time ...rotting petiole/leaf stem inside the colas is where bud rot starts
...poipu

 

[budlover123]

I have a friend who tried this, he had similar results, He was defoliaiting all through veg, the plants were vegging for like 4 months before flower. In flower he was not impressed by the size of the buds.

He had actually stopped defoliating completely in flower because after a week in flower he noticed that the biggest, healthiest buds all had their leaves still.

Next time he's thinking about doing a one time defoliation after about 8 nodes in veg, the thinking is that it will promote the new branch growth, which defoliation certainly does, but without removing too much leaf that will impair the ability for the plant to grow big ass buds.

The buds he did get were insanely resinous. But probably not more than usual for good stuff.