Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[TruthOrLie]

a WARNING for all would-be defoliators

a WARNING for all would-be defoliators

Removing the upper fan leaves from the plant is a HUGE mistake.

Leaves help the plant transpire (breathe/release excess moisture).

When you remove the larger leaves from your upper budsites, you effectively limit the large cola's ability to regulate moisture properly.

Late in flowering, if your conditions have excess humidity/low temps/poor circulation YOU WILL SEE GREY MOLD begin to form.

This is not from the stem receding back into the cola, this is from the cola not being able to properly regulate internal moisture.

Make sure you have ample air flow, temps, and low humidity late in flower if you have defoliated the large colas.

 

[redspaghetti]

If you do this in veg it is exactly what is happening. I have some pictures and what it does in veg is completely slow down vertical growth. Not so sure light reaching the areas on the plant that were shaded exactly helps the new bud sites grow as more of a hormonal switch that seems to tell the plant to shoot more branches.

I definitely noticed increased branching and shorter internodes at the expense of vertical growth.

This is a complete bonsai technique in veg if not by exact definition, it keeps plant size down.

It definitely also adds weeks of veg time on to your grow. I can see this working for smaller hid lights and closet grows.

Just don't see it being very practical with huge lights and rooms as others have pointed out.

The key is doing it right, of course not a lot of people will get it right the first time ... it take practices, most naysayer will practice and fail at the first try and give up,,, the one succeed is the one keep on trying ...

I strip leaves but not all to promote the plants to grow more nodes, of course there is a time they slow down a bit but i do trade that slow down time for more nodes instead of heights with just more leaves in veg... that does not mean i have to veg longer, i veg the same time as i veg the regular none defol one ... i am sure its hard to believe....

even the one vegging in soil are doing great with this technique if DONE RIGHT.


flower : you can see nothing but buds, most of the bottom ones are now falling all over as well because of the weight we have very little leaves left ,,, tell me this is a bad thing ....


cheers,,,


ps.. they still have 2 + weeks to go..

 

[TruthOrLie]

flower : you can see nothing but buds, most of the bottom ones are now falling all over as well because of the weight we have very little leaves left ,,, tell me this is a bad thing ....


cheers,,,


ps.. they still have 2 + weeks to go..

Of course all you see is buds. You removed the leaves, what's left?

My bet is you would still have colas falling over from their own weight even if you had left the leaves on.

 

[halitzor]

Removing the upper fan leaves from the plant is a HUGE mistake.

Leaves help the plant transpire (breathe/release excess moisture).

When you remove the larger leaves from your upper budsites, you effectively limit the large cola's ability to regulate moisture properly.

Late in flowering, if your conditions have excess humidity/low temps/poor circulation YOU WILL SEE GREY MOLD begin to form.

This is not from the stem receding back into the cola, this is from the cola not being able to properly regulate internal moisture.

Make sure you have ample air flow, temps, and low humidity late in flower if you have defoliated the large colas.

I believe this to be very true.


I have 4 WW plants in a undercurrent system that have veen vegging about a month. I only need 21 clones and there are hundreds on the plants to take so I decided to hack all the vegetation off of them to see what happens.

I noticed that after I cut all the branches off the places they used to be started leaking water pretty quick. They are no longer leaking but the stems are transpiring hardcore. Tons of tiny little water droplets coming out of it.

I'm wondering if sprouts will start popping out again? I just did this yesterday.

 

[Boerman]

nice work, red. Now, please go back to your previous avitar. She's gorgeous.

 

[St3ve]

I believe this to be very true.


I have 4 WW plants in a undercurrent system that have veen vegging about a month. I only need 21 clones and there are hundreds on the plants to take so I decided to hack all the vegetation off of them to see what happens.

I noticed that after I cut all the branches off the places they used to be started leaking water pretty quick. They are no longer leaking but the stems are transpiring hardcore. Tons of tiny little water droplets coming out of it.

I'm wondering if sprouts will start popping out again? I just did this yesterday.

Thats not leaking water. The plant releases a "juice" to heal the wound.

Give it another day or two and you'll see, things will look good.

 

[staff11]

Right red, I didn't strip every leaf, I dont grow hydroponically either. It definitely slows vertical growth down, but for some people I can see that as only benefiting them. And by saying it slows vertical growth I don't mean the plant just sits there stunted, because obviously the new shoots come on quicker.

I am still not sold on the technique, but I can see some benefits from using it in veg when you need to keep plant height in check or you are trying to slow them down until your flower room has space.

You keep on mentioning doing it right, well there really is no exact science behind this technique so right or wrong doesn't necessarily apply. Just look through some of these pictures and you will see people removing almost all the leaves to just a few, no one has it exactly dialed in except perhaps keef.....

 

[DOWNLOW]

Hey guys I don't want to interrupt the great discussion going on here but I haven't noticed the perspiration on the stems after defoiliating, but I do notice my plant has slowed down on drinking the water, this the the third week of flowering, being I am on my first grow I made the mistake of defoiliating two weeks ago, which was 3 weeks 12/12 one week flower but no ill effects, and made yesterdays defoiliating easier a little bit anyways. So here are the pics and do you ppl think good or no good.

 

[dramamine]

I believe this to be very true.


I have 4 WW plants in a undercurrent system that have veen vegging about a month. I only need 21 clones and there are hundreds on the plants to take so I decided to hack all the vegetation off of them to see what happens.

I noticed that after I cut all the branches off the places they used to be started leaking water pretty quick. They are no longer leaking but the stems are transpiring hardcore. Tons of tiny little water droplets coming out of it.

I'm wondering if sprouts will start popping out again? I just did this yesterday.

The growing shoots should usually be left on the plant, since that's where all the bud sites would have been. I haven't heard anyone advocating removing bud sites. It may just take a little bit for your plants to recreate those shoots.

 

[Blunt_69]

Hey guys I don't want to interrupt the great discussion going on here but I haven't noticed the perspiration on the stems after defoiliating, but I do notice my plant has slowed down on drinking the water, this the the third week of flowering, being I am on my first grow I made the mistake of defoiliating two weeks ago, which was 3 weeks 12/12 one week flower but no ill effects, and made yesterdays defoiliating easier a little bit anyways. So here are the pics and do you ppl think good or no good.

What do i think.. I think you made a mistake taking that much leave off.. But thats my opinion.Im sure other will chime in saying your buds gonna get bigger becuase those budsites are exposed better... but you have already noticed something that i noticed a long time ago.. remove fan leave, loose uptake.. less uptake= less energy.. less energy= less bud growth potential.

I dont know about this whole thread.. Id like to see the poster do a side by side..using HIS technique.. so that i can understand when, and how he is using this to his advantage. One plant left alone completely. the other using fan removal.. and show it through its whole life cycle...without that, we are all just pissen in the wind.

Removing Fan makes no sense to me. What you did.. i would NEVER do.

this thread is more confusing the longer it gets.Now we have newbies removing fan leaf based on this thread alone. Ive read through a majority of it... im still not convinced.

again this is my opinion.. please convince me properly and clearly. Im sure its doing something.. I need to see it done in a controlled manner myself.

 

[slowandeasy]

Hey guys I don't want to interrupt the great discussion going on here but I haven't noticed the perspiration on the stems after defoiliating, but I do notice my plant has slowed down on drinking the water, this the the third week of flowering, being I am on my first grow I made the mistake of defoiliating two weeks ago, which was 3 weeks 12/12 one week flower but no ill effects, and made yesterdays defoiliating easier a little bit anyways. So here are the pics and do you ppl think good or no good.

You are over 5 weeks into flowering, your nute uptake will slow down after the stretch anyhow even with out doing anything to them.

 

[slowandeasy]

What do i think.. I think you made a mistake taking that much leave off.. But thats my opinion.Im sure other will chime in saying your buds gonna get bigger becuase those budsites are exposed better... but you have already noticed something that i noticed a long time ago.. remove fan leave, loose uptake.. less uptake= less energy.. less energy= less bud growth potential.

I dont know about this whole thread.. Id like to see the poster do a side by side..using HIS technique.. so that i can understand when, and how he is using this to his advantage. One plant left alone completely. the other using fan removal.. and show it through its whole life cycle...without that, we are all just pissen in the wind.

Removing Fan makes no sense to me. What you did.. i would NEVER do.

this thread is more confusing the longer it gets.Now we have newbies removing fan leaf based on this thread alone. Ive read through a majority of it... im still not convinced.

again this is my opinion.. please convince me properly and clearly. Im sure its doing something.. I need to see it done in a controlled manner myself.

As I told the poster above, if anyone has grown before....you will notice that uptake slows a ton after the first few weeks of flower. That does not mean it will produce worse.

If you do not believe in this method, don't do it! Been said a million times in this thread. If you want a side by side, do it yourself. Do I see people demanding side by side grows using a scrog or supercropping? The people that have tried it and has helped are under no obligation to show extended proof. It worked for me, and really well.
People just want to argue about things they do not believe in. I documented my results back some pages. If that is not good enough for anyone here, too Fing bad. All of the naysayers chirp the same BS. "I dont see any advantage on removing leaves"
Well "I dont see any advantage of you posting your opinions if you have never tried it".

Is this the best method for everyone, absolutely not. Does it work for some, absolutely yes! Every method has advantages and disadvantages. Some work better than others, especially in certain situations. I am sick of defending this method. It works for me, and really well. Anyone who does not believe me is a narrow minded idiot, I have zero reason to lie and I have plenty of experience.

 

[Blunt_69]

People just want to argue about things they do not believe in. I documented my results back some pages. If that is not good enough for anyone here, too Fing bad. All of the naysayers chirp the same BS. "I dont see any advantage on removing leaves"
Well "I dont see any advantage of you posting your opinions if you have never tried it".

I don't want to argue with you. You have it wrong. I want to understand.

So far Ive seen a bunch of different grows with varying results. Each one of these is doing it at different times of the plants life's. This makes it confusing as shit.You got 100 pages of stuff that looks all different.Im not a naysayer, im telling you its confusing as hell.

Now.... . ive tried almost everything including removal of fan leaf, not quite to the extent seen in the above post. but alot..From what my experiance my bud did not grow larger.. I noticed the same thing. a slow down in uptake after removal.

I grow in a super controlled environment when small things change i notice.. If i didn't need a good damn harvest this go about, i'd give it a whirl myself.Just so i can see a side by side. but... this aint no experiment round for me.

Where are your results? i may have overlooked your specific results, in all the rubble.. This thread is huge.. sifting through it all is a task in its self...

listen dude dont get the hate on. Im just trying to understand just WTF you are seeing as beneficial defoliation..are we talking trees, bushes..scrog,closet, coliseum, horizontal lighting/vertical lighting...

.... see dude my problem is this. Different growing styles and variables requires different techniques for maximum gains. Defoliating a 2 foot plant vs a 6 foot plant is going to have significantly different results. It will have different results in veg vs flower.It will have different effects in late flower vs early flower.How many times applied will change the outcome......For it to be a technique I need to understand exactly how to apply it, and when.

...... i already know a thing or two about growing LARGE colas...

some of the bigger ones

i am not narrow minded, nor an idiot. help me understand. i want to learn.

 

[Cheeb]

I didnt think Defoliating was about large colas...I thought it was about exposing shaded lower areas of the plant so that it can too - grow larger and denser.


I'm torn between cleaning the bottoms up to only deal with large colas - or leaving all flower sites and stripping shades leaves to allow for penetration. I'm thinking a mild combo of both might yield good results.

Doing a massive cleaning down low is a lot easier for me then defoliating all of the time...I do know that, and I've had some of my best yields massively lolly-popping a garden (removing lower everything) without removing any upper large fan leaves or defoliating other then lower shit.

 

[JWP]

listen dude dont get the hate on. Im just trying to understand just WTF you are seeing as beneficial defoliation..are we talking trees, bushes..scrog,closet, coliseum, horizontal lighting/vertical lighting...

Its a bonsai technique for "hi yeild"
In theory it should work on all sized grows because if it works it works. You may just have to add an extra month or two the grow time if that makes sense?

Its like religion, you just have to have faith. And never question it or be branded as a naysayer troll and burn in hell for eternity.

Tom Hill, humboldtlocal & co know about "hi yeild" i guess we should ask them why they dont defoliate to the point of light hitting the deck? Surely they want "hi yeild" lol

 

[bs0]

Removing the upper fan leaves from the plant is a HUGE mistake.

Leaves help the plant transpire (breathe/release excess moisture).

When you remove the larger leaves from your upper budsites, you effectively limit the large cola's ability to regulate moisture properly.

Late in flowering, if your conditions have excess humidity/low temps/poor circulation YOU WILL SEE GREY MOLD begin to form.

This is not from the stem receding back into the cola, this is from the cola not being able to properly regulate internal moisture.

Make sure you have ample air flow, temps, and low humidity late in flower if you have defoliated the large colas.

"If you have conditions which are prone to mold you can get mold"
Sigh.

So you are saying that lessening the crowding when you have mold prone environment will increase the probability of mold? You are joking right? Because if you are serious that is the single worst anti defol argument I have seen in the past 125 pages. Give it up man.

 

[huntingbb]

"If you have conditions which are prone to mold you can get mold"
Sigh.

So you are saying that lessening the crowding when you have mold prone environment will increase the probability of mold? You are joking right? Because if you are serious that is the single worst anti defol argument I have seen in the past 125 pages. Give it up man.

and THATS why YOU get 1 +K

"Late in flowering, if your conditions have excess humidity/low temps/poor circulation YOU WILL SEE GREY MOLD begin to form."

^^--- get a fan st***d.

 

[slowandeasy]

I don't want to argue with you. You have it wrong. I want to understand.

So far Ive seen a bunch of different grows with varying results. Each one of these is doing it at different times of the plants life's. This makes it confusing as shit.You got 100 pages of stuff that looks all different.Im not a naysayer, im telling you its confusing as hell.

Now.... . ive tried almost everything including removal of fan leaf, not quite to the extent seen in the above post. but alot..From what my experiance my bud did not grow larger.. I noticed the same thing. a slow down in uptake after removal.

I grow in a super controlled environment when small things change i notice.. If i didn't need a good damn harvest this go about, i'd give it a whirl myself.Just so i can see a side by side. but... this aint no experiment round for me.

Where are your results? i may have overlooked your specific results, in all the rubble.. This thread is huge.. sifting through it all is a task in its self...

listen dude dont get the hate on. Im just trying to understand just WTF you are seeing as beneficial defoliation..are we talking trees, bushes..scrog,closet, coliseum, horizontal lighting/vertical lighting...

.... see dude my problem is this. Different growing styles and variables requires different techniques for maximum gains. Defoliating a 2 foot plant vs a 6 foot plant is going to have significantly different results. It will have different results in veg vs flower.It will have different effects in late flower vs early flower.How many times applied will change the outcome......For it to be a technique I need to understand exactly how to apply it, and when.

Your absolutely right bro! Different styles and variables play a key role in every single set up, no matter how we all grow. If you do it in veg, prepare for a much longer veg, with the results being a much shorter plant with more bud sites. In veg it slows vertical growth to a halt.
If done just a few times in flower, I saw a very slight slow down in uptake as you say. But it was not much, and the end result was a 25% increase in yield from previous grows. The buds were more dense with zero waste. Instead of having 3 piles at harvest (dense, fluff, leaves) I just had 2 piles Dense and leaves...and hardly any leaves...because they get defoliated a few times in flower.
For me, I see the advantage of this method as being for people who want to maximize smaller spaces. If I had a much larger space, with 1000 watt lights...your light is much stronger and penetrates more naturally. See, I grow in tents and once the Canopy gets full, it blocks a shit ton of light. Everything underneath if not defoliated will be grade B.
I do not grow for a few huge colas and then a bunch of varying sized buds. If your buds are all similar in size and dense all the way down you will yield more.
Your buds look great dude. I have grown buds as big as a 2 liter bottle of coke as well. This method gives me more equal sized buds, more dense further down, with zero waste. More light to more bud sites = more bud.
Like I said before, if you have a ton of space with huge ceilings and 1000 watt lights everywhere...this might not be your thing. For people in smaller spaces, where light penetration is the key to an increase in yield...it works well. Defoliating veg will slow your veg time by a ton, but you will have a much more compact plant with zero stretch and a million bud sites. Doing it in veg is perfect for those who have to keep clones around for 8 weeks without getting too large. If you have a short veg time, I suggest not doing it at all in veg. Wait til after the stretch once you flip, then start defoliating.
I have only done this for a couple of rounds, so I am just sharing my experience. It works for me, and that is all I care about. I will admit that it is not for everyone. If done in veg, prepare for a few extra weeks of veg....to some this is a blessing...to others it may not be.
I actually will take some pics today to show everyone a few plants in veg. I been defoliating a few clones and have a few from the same batch that were only topped and never defoliated. The difference is amazing! I take clones early and have to keep them around sometimes for 8 or 9 weeks before they can get flowered...just topping results in monster plants too big for my space. Defoliating in veg results in perfect bushes with hundreds of bud sites with zero stretch. To me, this is extremely important.

 

[TruthOrLie]

"If you have conditions which are prone to mold you can get mold"
Sigh.

So you are saying that lessening the crowding when you have mold prone environment will increase the probability of mold? You are joking right? Because if you are serious that is the single worst anti defol argument I have seen in the past 125 pages. Give it up man.

well, thats the difference between myself and many of the proponents of defoliation.

I give credit where credit is due.

Am I going to say that defoliation is the cause of my first EVER appearance of grey mold? No.

There are other factors contributing to the environmental conditions.

MAYBE the grey mold isn't solely from defoliation, but a combo effect that usually my plants are healthy enough to resist.

I'm not trying to denounce defoliation, I'm trying to gain an better understanding.

I can see how that might hurt the puny pellet dwelling in your noggin.

 

[bs0]

well, thats the difference between myself and many of the proponents of defoliation.

I give credit where credit is due.

Am I going to say that defoliation is the cause of my first EVER appearance of grey mold? No.

There are other factors contributing to the environmental conditions.

MAYBE the grey mold isn't solely from defoliation, but a combo effect that usually my plants are healthy enough to resist.

I'm not trying to denounce defoliation, I'm trying to gain an better understanding.

I can see how that might hurt the puny pellet dwelling in your noggin.

"Puny pellet" strangely, with my "puny pellet" I am able to maintain adequete grow room conditions to the point where I can establish which stimuli causes which response. You? You can't even maintain humidity. Like I said before, give it up. Can we get a mod to clean up this childish namecalling? This is just stupid. This person stopped being constructive long ago and is now just making things up and calling people names.