I told you where to find it. Start reading. If you're too lazy to read, then you have no right to call bullshit.joe4444, im not here to argue with you or anyone about this. But i have some time to spare so i will give you a little more of my time. But i have to warn you if someone doesnt say something logical and resonable in this thread soon i will give up and "just fuck off" as you put it.
Your question is; how do you KNOW there is no proof?
I KNOW there is no proof because you know that i made "8 replies" and you also know i didnt read every page because i said so in post #1413 which means you have read post #1413
In post #1413 not once but three times i ask for someone to point me in the direction of proof.
I KNOW you are just dying to have some proof so you can say "JWP here is your proof, now fuck off".
If proof existed you would have done exactly that. But you have not.
This is my proof that no proof exists
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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staff11
Because this is a discussion forum, he has the right to state his belief just like the OP has his right.
He makes a good point about newbies, however if he HAD read the entire thread which I did, (A LOT of complete Non-sense along the way too)he would realize the OP says it's not a technique for new growers.
JWP
Active member
No problemo, i will leave you all to it. But...
I propose a deal for all the supporters of this nonsense.
If you can grow two clones side by side and prove that defoliation does in fact increase yeild then i will burn a $100 note of my own money!!! And post pictures
If you cant prove it however. You have to burn a $100 of your money
and post pictures.Or you can change the title of this thread to: Defoliation: Low-Yield Technique & ask the mods to remove it as a sticky.
Send me an "in yo face" pm when ur done
El Toker
Member
I think he only made that statement a couple of times, then proceded to advise begginers to defoliate any way. The fact that it's title promises "high yield" is obviously designed to make the method appeal to all growers. The fact that it's been made a sticky seems to be an endorsement by the site of this nonsense.
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staff11
Well I do agree that a side by side isn't going to work with this technique unless you have dual lights and dual rooms to work with. The plant you don't strip will obviously grow faster ( COMMON SENSE.....) and taller then the one you don't. hard to really compare the two unless they are under separate lights. Like I said I have a couple going right now one I stripped in veg and one I didn't, but again I have to flower these in the same room under the same light. Obviously the taller plant will shade the smaller one by a bit, but I will try to keep them at the same height to the lights by propping the defoilated plant up. Still have some time left in veg first though.
And I'm all for trying new techniques before I write them off, as others should be too. It's easy to say it will or won't work, but until you experiment you really have no idea what the result will be.
El Toker
Member
I think most growers already know that if they traumatise their plants, (cutting off most of the fan leaves certainly qualifies) the plant will got into a state of shock and growth will slow down to almost a crawl for about 7-10 days. If done to a flowering plant, pistils will start to die giving the illusion that the plant is finishing early. I think a couple of posters on this thread reported that happening.
It may well be that defoliation does increase the number of bud sites, and the overall final yield, although if I had to take a bet I'd put money on it not doing this. However, IMO any gains are likely to be lost by extending the life cycle of the plant by weeks.
I have done this just about every round now.I remove the leaves blocking budsites ,to get light to shaded bud areas.It seems to work very well in mid to late flower.What i don't understand ,is why people would defoliate in veg.
That seems silly to me ,the plant is still developing an extensive root system,but alas i am just a student .And will continue to enjoy this thread.......
That seems silly to me ,the plant is still developing an extensive root system,but alas i am just a student .And will continue to enjoy this thread.......
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staff11
I still don't think pulling leaves off in veg is creating "more budsites". It's the topping, and training of the plant which accomplishes that. Hormones...woot woot.
Put blocks under the shorter plant to elevate it, so that they both get even lighting?
BTW... this is not a really new technique, there was a thread in "The Growing Consensus" subforum back on overgrow 8 or 9 years ago about whether or not removing leaves was smart.
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staff11
Did you just not read what I said? Propping up the plant. It will still be shaded a bit from the plant right next to it though.
I said new technique because I have never done it, hence new to me. I've always known that ripping a plant to pieces will stunt the growth, which is basically what all these guys are reporting when they pull the fans off in veg.
I said new technique because I have never done it, hence new to me. I've always known that ripping a plant to pieces will stunt the growth, which is basically what all these guys are reporting when they pull the fans off in veg.
I could care less how long you have been growing, if you have not tried it you cannot comment on how it works. I see the proof, I have been doing this a very long time and have done every method under the sun. I know how MY plants grow. Do you use Blumats? Yes that is why they grow so fast, they get food every 4 seconds. Put a clone on a blumat, and hand water another. No Comparison, the Blumat clone will crush the hand watered one.
You are right, I could LST or supercrop, scrogg, I have done them all. It is more work and you get less bud sites than this method. I want to slow my growth down in Veg because I am on a perpetual schedule. If I take a clone, that clone will not be flowered for 2 months. My plants grow extremely fast, and I have a lack of space, they will outgrow my area in no time.
I defoliated in Flower only on another tent, and pulled my best yields to date out of that tent. Everyones situation is different, for me it works and works well. If I had more space, I would not do it in veg...but for small areas it is a good technique. The leaves grow back in 2 days and the plants look very healthy. I know what I normally pull out of this small tent, so I will know if defoliating in veg increases yield or not. I am glad you are trying it, and I am sorry If I came of harsh...but you do not know my set up.
BTW, what do you think makes my plants grow so fast if it is not the Blumats?
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staff11
"You are right, I could LST or supercrop, scrogg, I have done them all. It is more work and you get less bud sites than this method."
Suppercropping as the OP has stated NUMEROUS times and Scrog (for support) go hand in hand with his method.
You didn't come off harsh, I just fail to see how removing fan leaves in veg creates more branching? It has nothing to due with the fact he tops and then bends the plants?
Healthy vegetative growth conditions? Sure constant slow watering is always good but as I am sure you know it's a combination of all factors for fast growth.
Suppercropping as the OP has stated NUMEROUS times and Scrog (for support) go hand in hand with his method.
You didn't come off harsh, I just fail to see how removing fan leaves in veg creates more branching? It has nothing to due with the fact he tops and then bends the plants?
Healthy vegetative growth conditions? Sure constant slow watering is always good but as I am sure you know it's a combination of all factors for fast growth.
I was just thinking is this a simulation of what "could" happen to your plants outside in the environment and we are trying to create that same chaos theory indoors...
I have been doing this since before this thread was here.I have seen it work time and time again.In veg it definetly creates more budsights.My only bitch with this training "Technique" is that sometimes in veg it can cause too much growth and although I have never had problems with mold...it looks like it could happen sometimes.
And I agree with what was said earlier...if you havent tried it you dont know what your talking about.
And I agree with what was said earlier...if you havent tried it you dont know what your talking about.
Ill give you my version of why it works for me.
but first of all i must confess that i would never of pulled fan leafs of ever. But
And this it what i think the haters/ doubters dont get is that its all about height and light,or in my circumstances it is.
I only have a total of 36" in height to work with and this includes the hanging of my light.
now try as i might ive never really been able to veg a plant as long as i would of liked due to this height restriction.
Now by using the op technique ive been able to veg my plants for an amazing amount of time whilst still developing future bud sites.
they have remained very small in height but have spread out very well.
From my own personal experience i could not have grown this much bud in my given space had i not employed this technique.
I fully understand why people are questioning this technique but may i suggest a side by side from your camp.
can some one veg me a plant for 7 wks not remove any fan leafs keep it 14" tall. (max) from the top of the plant pot, use a 400w lamp and only be able to visit there grow every 3to4 days.
Unfortunately for me i, un-like some of the so called big boys on here, cannot afford to run 1000k+ of lights, + air con +big fans and have unlimited height,i have what i have to work with and i do my best.
All i want to do is grow a bit of weed so i dont have to fuel the local drug wankers, i cannot grow lots of small plants, as where i live its plant numbers not plant size that gets you in trouble.
Im also fully aware of the fact that, if i had the room to let my ak48 veg for 4 weeks in total freedom without the removal of fan leafs, with no height restrictions, and my 600w in my old grow tent, then i too would think that this thread is a crock of shit.
But if you suffer from not being able to grow a tall plant then this method works, or it certainly does in my case/circumstances.
It really is all about restrictions, if you dont have any, and you can afford to let your plant grow,then i fully believe that you should.
On the other hand if you only have a small grow space 36"x36"x38. then i really dont see what harm using this technique can do, at worst, you will get a really good insight into how well we really dont understand this plant.
Like the op said stretch is the enemy or it certainly is in my case,
Have a nice day and guys chill out.
Bob
but first of all i must confess that i would never of pulled fan leafs of ever. But
And this it what i think the haters/ doubters dont get is that its all about height and light,or in my circumstances it is.
I only have a total of 36" in height to work with and this includes the hanging of my light.
now try as i might ive never really been able to veg a plant as long as i would of liked due to this height restriction.
Now by using the op technique ive been able to veg my plants for an amazing amount of time whilst still developing future bud sites.
they have remained very small in height but have spread out very well.
From my own personal experience i could not have grown this much bud in my given space had i not employed this technique.
I fully understand why people are questioning this technique but may i suggest a side by side from your camp.
can some one veg me a plant for 7 wks not remove any fan leafs keep it 14" tall. (max) from the top of the plant pot, use a 400w lamp and only be able to visit there grow every 3to4 days.
Unfortunately for me i, un-like some of the so called big boys on here, cannot afford to run 1000k+ of lights, + air con +big fans and have unlimited height,i have what i have to work with and i do my best.
All i want to do is grow a bit of weed so i dont have to fuel the local drug wankers, i cannot grow lots of small plants, as where i live its plant numbers not plant size that gets you in trouble.
Im also fully aware of the fact that, if i had the room to let my ak48 veg for 4 weeks in total freedom without the removal of fan leafs, with no height restrictions, and my 600w in my old grow tent, then i too would think that this thread is a crock of shit.
But if you suffer from not being able to grow a tall plant then this method works, or it certainly does in my case/circumstances.
It really is all about restrictions, if you dont have any, and you can afford to let your plant grow,then i fully believe that you should.
On the other hand if you only have a small grow space 36"x36"x38. then i really dont see what harm using this technique can do, at worst, you will get a really good insight into how well we really dont understand this plant.
Like the op said stretch is the enemy or it certainly is in my case,
Have a nice day and guys chill out.
Bob
This thread is total bollocks,i totally agree with gGrat3fulh3ad ,the only time to remove large fan leafs is if there starting to die and dry out which they will do all through the flowering period as the plant starts to use up those nutrient reserves,and yes i've read most of this thread,only missed 5 pages and all i've seen is skinny leafless plants in veg and a few that are maybe 2-3 weeks into bloom.
There are tried and tested ways to up your yields like supercropping,lollypoping,sog,scrog and lst,why anyone would remove leafs just for the plant to grow more is beyond me,the leafs store sugars and other hormones which the plant needs,if this wasn't the case then why are the plants growing big fat fan leafs in the first place.If you want to fatten up lower buds just wait until the top cola's are ready then remove them and give the rest of the plant another week or so until there nice and fat.
There are tried and tested ways to up your yields like supercropping,lollypoping,sog,scrog and lst,why anyone would remove leafs just for the plant to grow more is beyond me,the leafs store sugars and other hormones which the plant needs,if this wasn't the case then why are the plants growing big fat fan leafs in the first place.If you want to fatten up lower buds just wait until the top cola's are ready then remove them and give the rest of the plant another week or so until there nice and fat.
White Rhino and Purple Camo in 10 gallon airpots.
All have been defoilated and None are small sickly plants.
I have done a side by side, hand watering and Blumats...same light, space, nutes and yes my conditions are perfect. I also have a lot of experience, which does not hurt. My hands cannot duplicate the growth the Blumats deliver, so without question...it is the Blumats that make them grow so well.
Pulling the fan leaves off creates more branching because it gives light to the lower parts of the plant, that normally dont do shit. It keeps the nodes extremely tight, less stretch...more bud sites. If you have alot of space, I agree...it is not the best method to do in veg. But if you are in my situation, where you have a lack of height and have to keep clones small...it works.
To all of the people who are naysayers, when I read this thread the first time, I was skeptical. As an experienced grower, I know what fan leaves are "supposed" to do. I like to experiment, and if I can improve my yield in anyway using the same set up as always...why not. For people with small areas, your buds will be much more dense all the way down. If you do not feel comfortable trying it, don't try it and move along now!
It also turns out that I C mag is no different than the real bigoted world. in that we have 1400 post on a topic thats all been quite nice and a good read.
3 people suddenly think its not worthy of a sticky and its removed fuck me you lot are septic in your own world.
do you not think your actions actually question the legitimacy of the forums freedom.
Its a shame the freedom you all treat as you right is not extended to others.
trust me the removal of fan leafs does increase future bud sights fact.
3 people suddenly think its not worthy of a sticky and its removed fuck me you lot are septic in your own world.
do you not think your actions actually question the legitimacy of the forums freedom.
Its a shame the freedom you all treat as you right is not extended to others.
trust me the removal of fan leafs does increase future bud sights fact.
El Toker
Member
I think that I expressed my opinions on defoliation and they didn't agree with yours. Suggesting that I'm somehow stripping you of your human rights by doing so is patently ridiculous.
Try to be a bit more objective here and get a sense of perspective. I'm not your mortal enemy, I'm just someone who disagrees with you about the efficacy of a gardening technique.
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