Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[blancorasta]

mohan:THAT looks sick bro, isnt it cool how the buds grow all the way along every branch like the whole thing is made of colas...defol's the way to go!

peace

 

[mohan]

mohan:THAT looks sick bro, isnt it cool how the buds grow all the way along every branch like the whole thing is made of colas...defol's the way to go!

peace

Yeah its unbelievable! Buds are everywhere on this plant. Thanks for lookin bro.

Also thanks for all the info I got from this thread from Kree,Delta,and many others.

Edit: I just noticed those were your monsters a few posts up....Wow. Thats the size I was lookin for. Congrats

 

[BIGGS]

this technique kicks ass. thanks k33ftr33z for posting it up. without a doubt this has helped improve my yeild so far from what i can see. all the buds nearer the bottom of the plant which i usually chop off b4 flowering are looking good. and still got another 4 weeks to go. big up!!

 

[growhigh1234]

i usaly do something similer but not to this extent !! i think the idea of takein leafs off even in veg is counter productive myself !! there is no budding sites to be shadded so why pull all the leafs off i do it soon as i put them on bud !!

any big leafs that might shade lower branchs ect i like to leave on as much as i can if its not shading anything its not doin any harm so ill leave it !!!

maybe ill do an experiment and see if puckin the arse out of it in veg gives any better yeild !!

 

[TruthOrLie]

I notice where fan leaves have been removed during veg that branching occurs at the node.

 

[LifeLess]

Good looking plants blancorasta. Heres a quick update of my progress. Today is day 35. Peace LL

Day 14 before


Day 14 after


Day 18


Day 22 before


Day 22 after


Day 26


Day 30


Today Day 35

 

[mohan]

^^Cant forget about my boy LifeLess. You another 1 that put me up on this.
Goodlookin on your contributions bro, looks like your plants got budz from the floor to the roof.

 

[blancorasta]

if your bud is getting shade... it should only be from the big ass bud above it LOL

 

[Relentless]

hey lifeless, whats the dimensions of the cab ur running and what watt light?

 

[LifeLess]

Anytime Mo cant keep all the good stuff to myself.

blancorasta never read a better statement.


Relentless the closet is 3 x 3 x 8 and im running a 600 in there. Theres 7 plants all in 3 gallon pots. I dont usually do more than 4 or 5 at the most because of over crowding. This defoliating made more room for more bud. This is my first run with 7 plants in there. As i chop ill pull each plant out for a photo op. There as much bud in the center and back as you see in front. Im vegging some plants right now for a test run in a 3.5 x 3.5 x 6. Im gonna try 11 plants in 2 gallon pots. 2- c99, 4 Indiana bubblegum and 5- apollolicious. Its will be interesting to see what happens. Have a great one. Peace LL

 

[buddin_904]

lifeless's posts have been the epitomy (sp?) of the benefits of this thread....watch and learn to anyone in doubt....HIS YIELDS / RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES!

 

[BorkBorkBork]

Thankfully no mold problems. *keep my fingers crossed*

I recommend keeping a close eye on your harvest, especially the bigger buds. Lost a jar the harvest before last to white fluffy mold that started in the largest buds. Even managed to smoke some before discovering it

Make sure you "open" the bigger buds in select spots and look for mold inside.

Good luck, and may you remain mold free!

Edit: And that's my 420 advice for you. Just noticed my post count. ^^

 

[Fat J]

^^ I second that statement - big dense buds can get mold quick with high rh - and u wont see it till u open up the buds a lil -u wont see it on the outside.

 

[Dave Coulier]

I recommend keeping a close eye on your harvest, especially the bigger buds. Lost a jar the harvest before last to white fluffy mold that started in the largest buds. Even managed to smoke some before discovering it

Make sure you "open" the bigger buds in select spots and look for mold inside.

Good luck, and may you remain mold free!

Edit: And that's my 420 advice for you. Just noticed my post count. ^^

Crazy you say that because I actually discovered a small amount of mold after I dried and placed some buds into a jar awhile back. Thankfully I saw it in time, and it didn't ruin very much. Less than a gram. I definitely inspect my ladies better now, than I have done in the past.

Ill definitely be investing in a dehumidifier on my next grow.

 

[huntingbb]

I'd prefer not being included in the category of "guys who know everything"

what is your definition of newbie?

mine is someone sitting over his first rooted clone and about to pull off all the leaves after (6) or (7) nodes have formed once he's figured out what a node is. How much experience do you think is necessary before a new grower will have the confidence to attempt LST in the manner described? (Bend branches over while crushing the stem and twisting?) It looks really bad and damaged when first done.... but of course it's the results we are after.



my comment @Jürarrac was a sarcastic reference to a fictitious "cannabis institute" in Holland that does not exist. I felt he posted a "follow-on" question to find a shortcut to his answer and that is disrespectful to posters such as K33f and Delta who have patiently carried this thread through (80) pages.

I feel that if growers aren't prepared to read through the thread to gain understanding, they shouldn't attempt the technique.

If they do read through the thread, in addition to the skill they pickup from K33f, they get the added bonus of other super-valuable information.



ok... so you're metric is (2) or (3) grows? that will take between (4) and (9) months to complete depending on several factors. I feel that if the gardener is carefully observant during that (4) to (9) month period, he will learn a substantial amount and I'm not sure how we can call him a newbie....

maybe we are saying the same things... we might have the same definition of a newbie and possibly your ideas do not disagree with mine as much as you thought.



why are you ambiguous about your plant count? Do your plants move around and hide? Do some migrate? A statement of "over seventy plants" appears to have been included to validate your experience and add credibility to your opinions. What are your garden parameters? Are you growing all those plants exactly as K33f suggests; each has about a 3'x3'x3' area and has been heavily trained.

K33f advocates this method, in part, because it allowed him to achieve his yield objectives while dramatically lowering his plant count. I have archived copies (from Agent-Smith waaaaayyy back) of his original SOG grow tunnels using 400W lights. He demonstrated how to build an almost free parabolic reflector while adjust-a-wings cost almost $200 each. In addition to plant count, he states in this thread that he appreciates a little less maintenance and also more consistency plant to plant.

So are you doing the same as he is? Only with 70-ish plants?? That is a huge fucking amount of work!!! I commend you. How are you lighting it?

In my last post with (4) pictures, the first (2) show an example of one of my (72) plant vertical gardens. It is called "The Cage" and is available at aristabc.com. I do not do as heavy training or shaping as K33f but the principles apply exactly the same. The systems are each lit with 1400W (1.4K). It goes 1200W till week 4 then 1600W till week 8. The goal is to get each plant up over an ounce and this can be achieved depending on your skillz. Some plants approach (2) oz (a tribute to k33f's comments on inconsistency in high-density SOG situations).



My original commentary with Dave Coulier originated over photos of a small plant in a dixie cup that was not happy. Nothing discouraging was said in that exchange other than it would be a good idea for any grower attempting defoliation to first have a handle on irrigation as if that was screwed up, the increased yield from defoliation would not overcome the loss of yield from under/overwatering.

My comment @Jürarrac was that if you can't be bothered to read a few pages, don't bother asking stupid questions.

Tell me how a grower with even a small amount of experience can't think for a minute and go: "Well, bud-sites with more light on them produce bigger, fuller, more well-developed bud. This technique allows more bud-sites to be in full light. The photos posted show more bud. Hhhmmmm.... I conclude this technique will produce more bud per unit of space and unit of light" ??

I'd have a hard time recommending defoliation to a grower who can't arrive at the aforementioned conclusion on his own.

The most important question that K33f (and others) answer, in my opinion, is: "I think I'll get more yield, however, If I do this to my plants, will they be ok??". The answer is yes IF YOU PREP IN VEG.



What are we doing here? Why are you here? I'm here to optimize.

30%-40% of the work we do produces 60%-70% of the potential yield we get. We build and equip our grow space. We plant, water and feed.

The remaining 30-ish% of potential yield we can achieve comes from fine-tuning/optimizing (or just actually doing) the other 60%-70% of work.

Some examples are:

- not training your plants vs. doing it once or constantly
- defoliating then doing it again, again, again and again
- treating pests infestations
- realizing better control over temperatures (and then specifically at key times)
- carefully engineering the composition of your nutrient solution
- determining how to optimally light your grow space under the constraints of whatever limiting factors are present
- improving the quality of your water
- managing the spectrum of light falling on your garden

The point is that all that extra work only achieves at most a 5% - 10% improvement in each specific area but we do it because, in aggregate, the results of each individual improvement can give us that 30% boost in yield.

Clearly the defoliation method alone can add a significant boost to yield and it can be certainly more than 30% if pre-defoliation conditions were really bad. My guesstimate of 30% assumes pre-existing conditions were well under control (ie. not overcrowded etc.). An example would be a few home depot buckets under a 1K light but run properly. That does not take much work. Then switching to no medium (water only), a different reflector and some heavy interaction with the plant starting in veg.

I'm glad you have found your approach rewarding. Just "diving in with little thought" is the antithesis of optimization which requires careful consideration, measurement and adjustment. I'm a fan of optimization because it makes my yields larger.

peace

I really like this guy +1

 

[slowandeasy]

I am going to try this next run on a couple of plants. I have a question, what if you use a PK booster like Kool Bloom...should you time the trimmings a few days after Kool Bloom dosages? I hit them 3 or 4 times in Flower. Seems like that could be alot of stress all at once. I am thinking on defoliating on day 21 flower and then depends on growth. Any suggestions?

When is the latest you would start this technique? Not sure I want to start in veg, I do need to control height, but my tent is 3x3. Usually do 4 plants, but I think I could do 6 with this tech.,

 

[420Clones]

Application scientific method

Application scientific method

Perhaps it is possible to use the scientific method or some sort of comparison process to compare results. Time lapse video with same strains under same conditions with varied technique for each.

With many time lapse videos of different strains having same methods applied to the plants will show consistent effects across all strains.

What is a cheap camera for time lapse video of the experiment?

One test may involve stand alone plants to see pure effects on yield.

Another test is 3 plants per pot in a restricted airspace to simulate over crowding. This will show if pruning leaves increases yield in a plant which occupied one cubic foot.

We need observable empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning in order to agree 100% on actions and reactions in our universe.

Scientific method From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the latest accepted revision, accepted on 2 September 2010.



Jump to: navigation, search
Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[2] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses

 

[C.Green]

Ahoi

Very interesting subject, has already read all sides.
Will also try it

Many thanks

 

[Centrum]

Tried it in a perpetual 25 plant sog, 8 times ( 8 weeks x 25 plants per week).
Nirvanas' ice responded exactly the same.
Mosca's c99 f1's did not like this and didnt swell up like they do with foilage.
C4 X Blackrussian yeilded about the the same, but smaller buds and more airy.
C4 X various crosses same as above C4.
(NL#5 X Apollo 11 g4) X (Bubble Gum X Blueberry) Yeilded more then half less then its usual.

I ran all those various strains perpetually in a SOG with 2 week veg, defoiling didnt start till day 21 in flower.

For me the results where nothing like i see in these highly praised defoilation threads.

Hope everyone else gets better results.

Good luck
take care

 

[the_extremist]

To be fair, I don't think SOG with smaller plants would benefit a whole lot from this. Especially if the first defoliation was at day 21 of flower. The idea is to start in veg and use the defoliation as a form of training to get the plant to branch out and produce more potential bud sites. I think the longer the veg the better when using this technique. Just my two cents.