Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Bud buster]

whodar you are commenting on things you have never done when you try it you can have an opinion until then go back 4 pages and read then when you want to post again go back and read them again because you are just a broken record talking theory you don`t know https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3966623&highlight=delta#post3966623

lets start with post 1905 shall we? i state that the 10 plants were run consecutively, i give their weights, then show pictures of what i call the biggest plant i've ever grown in my life. inherent in that statement is the realization that, in ten years, i have never grown a heavier yielding plant. this plant was defoliated just as i described. every leaf that had a visible petiole was removed.

i also explained why i can't run a side by side. but my conditions are very stable. temps, humidity, fertilizer program, lighting, strain, veg time, flower time, are very carefully controlled at all times. for a complete rundown and a lot more pics go to my thread.

i have now run a lot more plants using various approaches to defoliating and am getting good results consistently. last weeks plant went 16 oz's. it was defoliated at beginning of flower and again at 21-23 days.

i've just cut another one that's still wet that will run over 18 again. same treatment.

you know, the funny thing is that i totally believe you when you say that you decreased yields by defoliating. why won't you believe me when i tell you that i increased yields?

you have zero successful experience yet repeatedly attack those who are getting results.

you are not qualified to even review the technique much less "warn" those thinking about trying it.

maybe if you opened your eyes and ask one of these nice adults for help you might improve your technique.

you try it once and fail and now you are an expert.

 

[whodare]

found a picture of my last grow at day 34. Strains,Light,soil,ferts are all the same as the current grow. You can see a huge diff in bud development. Im not sure but after looking at the Apollolicious i think it could be close to finished at day 38. Its close for sure.

Last grow day 34
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Box_34_days.JPG]View Image[/url]

current grow day 36
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/Day_36.JPG]View Image[/url]

First off the defoliated plants are in larger containers it looks like

Second, he makes no mention of veg time

Third ,see bolded text in quote, pure bullshit... 38 day strain? Looks more like someone miscounted a week...

 

[Bud buster]

As far as it taking longer to bud like DHF had mentioned but still recommends only if taking too much too fast like the pictures I just posted prove it usually isn`t fact and another thread saying it reduced flower by a week and he is getting the biggest plants he had ever got. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3807569&highlight=delta#post3807569

hey! before DF 8 weeks veg, 9 weeks flower. although i did increase veg from 7 to 8 weeks during the middle of this period.

with DF all were vegged 8 weeks and flowered 8 weeks. so DF shaved a week off my flower time.

the buds are just as ripe but a week earlier.

 

[Bud buster]

First off the defoliated plants are in larger containers it looks like

Second, he makes no mention of veg time

Third ,see bolded text in quote, pure bullshit... 38 day strain? Looks more like someone miscounted a week...

It took 45 days he was just so surpised that his plants were so fat and farther along then they ever were


Ok last one https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....174163&page=59

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeLess
Thnx Greyskull atleast you noticed. Lets forget about the bottom buds for a second. ALL The Buds benefit from defoliating. I know this works and will always defoliate. Theres always gonna be poeple that wanna argue diff points because its what they like to do (argue). But those of us that have tried this know whats up. Here we go again HaHa. I love these pics.

Day 16 before
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Day 16 after
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Day 20
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Day 24 Before 2nd def
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Day 24 after
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Day 28
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Day 32
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Day 36
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Day 40
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Day 45 Chopped day 47
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This was my 1st attempt at defoliating and things went way better than expected. I didnt take any leaf in veg. I started defoliating at day 16 bloom and did a 2nd leaf trim at day 24. Putting the lower buds aside. The upper 2/3s of the plant did way better. The light being able to penatrate to the bottom was good but the light intensity to the upper was even better. Buds were so dense they were like rocks.
Ft100 are you seeing anything like that?
Greyskull you?
Peace LL

https://www.icmag.com/ic/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=5407823

 

[whodare]

As far as it taking longer to bud like DHF had mentioned but still recommends only if taking too much too fast like the pictures I just posted prove it usually isn`t fact and another thread saying it reduced flower by a week and he is getting the biggest plants he had ever got. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3807569&highlight=delta#post3807569

you seriously lack reading comprehension...

greyskull, did you read any of the rest of the post of any of my other post?

I AM ABSOLUTELY PROMOTING PROPER PRUNING(sorry for the caps, i want clarity)

that includes, as i said before, frequent removal of sucker branches, and large leafs blocking light to lower nodes. in veg for me, 10% gets stripped a week.

i personally leave as many large leafs below as i can.

i get rid of all suckers and clear out the canopy i little more aggressively(30%) 3 days to a week before flower so that they are 100% recovered and ready to blast off in stretch.

in stretch i resume frequent but light leaf and sucker removal, and then 3-4 days before the end of stretch i clear the rest of the suckers and leafs.

from the end of stretch on its strictly leaf removal only when it is large and blocking or resting on a nearby bud, and only if it cant be tucked away.



so i repeat im for good cultural practices ie pruning throughout the grow cycle...

but extreme defoliation is only for extreme circumstances, small spaces, extreme humidity in late cycle, quick ripening(if done wrong delayed).

 

[Bud buster]

you seriously lack reading comprehension...

It`s you who hasn`t understood the obvious go back 5 pages and read what dozens of people have actually done DHF recommends it despite the learning curve something you don`t know much about.

Until you do it you don`t know shit and can`t even put up a good argument your a baby having a tantrum on the floor GET OVER IT.

 

[DrFever]

Bud buster as i am firmly against skinning plants i will say this once
i will challenge any defoilater to 4 plant grow and harvest under 1k 5 week veg period, and chop when ever you see fit as well post a log on grow cause i can guarantee you in about 4 weeks time your going to see what its all about
Just for you i will take one of these plants out trim it, weigh it wet and tell you what she will be dry i expect the same for the challenger
lets not talk the talk lets walk the walk
Remember only 5 weeks VEG
what you are about to see in 4 weeks time will blow your mind

 

[Bassy59]

@whodare,

somewhere above you try to compare defoliation to pruning and provide a context. The problem with that is it's YOUR context, not the op's.

As the title is made by the op, and he defines defoliation in his terms, we have to take it in HIS context. While your definition of what he does could be pruning by YOUR definition.

Oftentimes, it's hard to grab the proper context of a comment online. It just doesn't always translate well.

 

[vspin]

if you really want to get technical you will need about 130 watts per square foot to match the sun growing indoor

Maybe so, but the sun provides greater uniform luminosity throughout the day, in contrast to a statically positioned, overhead, artificial light. Any artificial attempt to replicate the movement of the sun must recognize the Inverse Square Law as well as the changing positions of the sun throughout the day, which is why lights on horizontal rollers are insufficient.

While this technique does not attempt to provide uniform luminosity as the sun, it compensates by removing leaves to allow more light to penetrate the entire plant without ignoring the Inverse Square Law, such as in compact spaces.

 

[Bud buster]

Fever you would never admit to being wrong someone could take up your challenge kick your ass and you would say they are cheating by growing vertical or hydro or a different strain.

If you want to disprove this so bad the only answer your going to accept is your own in your garden where you know everything is exactly the same.

Take those 4 plants you were talking about strip one heavy strip one medium don`t strip the other two I would recommend vertical lights for a more balanced grow test. stop stripping a week or more before flip then a month in flip do the heavy one again and the medium. For another test strip one that was never touched see if it is much different then your control and with the numbers your run using two plants per test would be better for averages.

You have 70 clones in one tub flowering you could easily do some test on 4 to 8 clones the worse that could happen is you get to rub it in or find something that could give you 10 to 30% bonus.

For them I`d pick four at two weeks 2 heavy & two medium another four at a month two heavy two medium.

Like I said the only fare test is in the same room with everything the same and enough clones for an average weight 2 to 4 each.

 

[DrFever]

bud buster i admit to whats right one thing you got to remember most vert growers would struggle to pull what i pull off GPW
you mention Vert i got fck all on my sides its all on tops you understand 640 bud sites so vertical defeats the cause as i am not worried about side buds ???? There on very top
Again when growing vert the lights shoots off in all directions 360 degress losing its intensity much quicker , further away it lights up , as for my horizontal i got both sides of the light reflecting to all the tops one direction
trust me do a experiment place 1000 watts vertical place your face 2 feet away and slowly move closer . tell me how close you get then set up a 1000 horizontal with open reflector do the same i got so much intensity and heat on them tops it would melt your face
most vert guys will admit that reason there doing this is number 1 cause of heat issues, running vert you heat gets dispersed quicker , size of room , and many other factors involved as well size of grow

 

[fastnick1oo]

Defoliation?
Doesn't work for me.
And as I see it, it never will.

 

[Bud buster]

Vertical vs horizontal has been discussed almost as much as this and people can pull big numbers doing both. I prefer vertical now it`s a choice like this technique you don`t have to try either but if you want to argue you have to have done it.
The reason I said vertical for the test is that the plants wouldn`t stretch as much so the 2 test groups would be the same height
You have 12 plants growing scrog you can easily do one or three plants in the way I mentioned before.
You doing the test is the only one you`ll trust. The 70 clone tub is perfect to try a few plants just don`t trim branches like you would with the others.

 

[Jbonez]

Defoliation?
Doesn't work for me.
And as I see it, it never will.

So you did try it?

 

[Bud buster]

Defoliation?
Doesn't work for me.
And as I see it, it never will.

I`d like to hear what happened nothing is a magic bullet it doen`t work with every strain or timing of trim we can learn from what you have done.

 

[siftedunity]

hmm im gonna sit it out and see what becomes of the tests. my guess is that you wont carry on with it but we shall see if i eat my words.

 

[GMax]

bud buster i admit to whats right one thing you got to remember most vert growers would struggle to pull what i pull off GPW
you mention Vert i got fck all on my sides its all on tops you understand 640 bud sites so vertical defeats the cause as i am not worried about side buds ???? There on very top
Again when growing vert the lights shoots off in all directions 360 degress losing its intensity much quicker , further away it lights up , as for my horizontal i got both sides of the light reflecting to all the tops one direction
trust me do a experiment place 1000 watts vertical place your face 2 feet away and slowly move closer . tell me how close you get then set up a 1000 horizontal with open reflector do the same i got so much intensity and heat on them tops it would melt your face
most vert guys will admit that reason there doing this is number 1 cause of heat issues, running vert you heat gets dispersed quicker , size of room , and many other factors involved as well size of grow

i dont like to get in the middle of this but i got to chime in for the vert side... i am not bashing horizontal in any way because i know that great yields can be achieved in it also...but usually it takes some type of pruning, topping, at the very minimum lower branch removal, etc... like you said to get 640 tops..

i can understand with the defoliation.. but vert increases your yeilds, the same way LST does in horizontal..

we all know that LST works, there is a science behind it: a plant grows naturally with a main cola...you train the main cola sideways, and the plant looks for a new main cola (usually the next highest branch)...you keep training and training and eventually you have a bunch of "mini-tops" all evenly spaced from the light..and increase your yeilds

vert is essentially the same thing, except the plants grow that way without training.. most of the yield increase in vert comes from 2 main things: increase of canopy space compared to floor space...and the absolute absence of larf

sure the light may lose intensity and bounce around 360 degrees, but we just make sure we have plants to catch it, and keep our plants closer

i dont have enough fingers to count why i switched to vert, but heat issues was at the bottom, or not even on there at all

your plants look great and your yeilds are amazing i am not arguing that... but you say you got 6lbs under 2k with a reflector...so what do you think would happen if you removed your reflector and had the same plants on the ceiling growing downwards also????

but these, sometimes heated, debates/discussions are a great thing... if no one questioned anything we might still believe the world to be flat...most of science is theory and indoor growing hasnt been around that long, and is probably gonna be around for a long time

 

[iampolluted]

anyone using a reflector is not getting 100% usage of available light. you're losing over 50% of the light to reflection from the reflector. reflected light is not as intense as direct light. it's common sense. a light without a reflector will be brighter and more intense than one in a reflector. even the best reflector on the planet cannot compete with a bare bulb. indirect lighting is never going to equal direct lighting.

circling plants around the lights wastes nothing, except for the light that passes by the plant, which is why we have white or reflective walls. vert growers use the direct light from the bulb on all it's sides and rely on the intensity of the light (once it passes the plants) to reflect it back from the walls, or we turn our plants to ensure even coverage on the back side. people like heath use more lights to surround plants so they don't have to turn em. in my case, i have plants on 3 walls, and in between 4 1k bare bulbs. there is no shade anywhere in the room unless it's shaded by leaf.

i see no decrease in intensity using a bare bulb with 360 degrees of light. the light output is the same regardless of whether there is a reflector or not. a reflector is going to reduce intensity because 1/2 of it is refracted light.

 

[Jbonez]

Oftentimes, it's hard to grab the proper context of a comment online. It just doesn't always translate well.

Agreed, but incomprehensibility is often mistaken for improper context, of which whodare is not guilty of.. Ive read his posts, and no where have I seen that his context was ever an issue...

Just saying man, no harm no foul..

 

[Jbonez]

anyone using a reflector is not getting 100% usage of available light. you're losing over 50% of the light to reflection from the reflector. reflected light is not as intense as direct light. it's common sense. a light without a reflector will be brighter and more intense than one in a reflector. even the best reflector on the planet cannot compete with a bare bulb. indirect lighting is never going to equal direct lighting.

circling plants around the lights wastes nothing, except for the light that passes by the plant, which is why we have white or reflective walls. vert growers use the direct light from the bulb on all it's sides and rely on the intensity of the light (once it passes the plants) to reflect it back from the walls, or we turn our plants to ensure even coverage on the back side. people like heath use more lights to surround plants so they don't have to turn em. in my case, i have plants on 3 walls, and in between 4 1k bare bulbs. there is no shade anywhere in the room unless it's shaded by leaf.

i see no decrease in intensity using a bare bulb with 360 degrees of light. the light output is the same regardless of whether there is a reflector or not. a reflector is going to reduce intensity because 1/2 of it is refracted light.

Now this is what Im talking about... If you start fundamentally with the source of light, then anytime "reflectors" are brought up you can start showing how light is diminished over vertical...

Great post.