Wow, thanks Xare. This is the first post that has given me the confidence to continue experimenting with defoliation. +rep
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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Good work Xare! I knew you would yield more just by the pictures before. Some people could not see behind your leaves...
I would bet that the buds are more dense than usual as well? Thanks for the pics and posting your results. Besides increased yield, have you noticed anything else different?
I would bet that the buds are more dense than usual as well? Thanks for the pics and posting your results. Besides increased yield, have you noticed anything else different?
Xare
Active member
It was much easier to deal with at harvest time. The entire crop was trimmed up in 30 min with my power trimmer instead of a usual hour.
Ive tried other things in my space to increase yield like adding veg time, upping plant count, and even tried not lolly-popping the clones.
Stripping the Fans has made the most positive difference.
Yes the lower buds are dense and that is where the extra weight comes from. The top cola maybe slightly smaller. But that extra light exposure allows everything to fill in properly.
I think I could hit 1 gram per watt, If I went with one gallon hempys.
Ive tried other things in my space to increase yield like adding veg time, upping plant count, and even tried not lolly-popping the clones.
Stripping the Fans has made the most positive difference.
Yes the lower buds are dense and that is where the extra weight comes from. The top cola maybe slightly smaller. But that extra light exposure allows everything to fill in properly.
I think I could hit 1 gram per watt, If I went with one gallon hempys.
The underlined should be replaced with improve overall bud quality without sacrificing growth tips.
I also wouldnt classify it as retards, but again, i dont want to debate vocab.
The top growth tip is generally the best smoke, but you cant use size to judge potency. A plant with 10 days vegged is going to create a smaller bud than one vegged for 2 months, but that doesnt mean her bud is less potent.
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ARE YOU GUYS FREAKING JOKING WITH ME OR SOMETHING?
I'm about to pop a freAking blood vessel or something. HOLY SMOKES!
You are telling me you fail to see how taking a picture of two plants to compare them is COMPLETELY UNFAIR if in the picture the nugs of one plant are more than 50% BLOCKED by the leaves in the picture.
IF WE ARE GOING TO COMPARE TWO PICTURES take the freaking leaves OFF of BOTH plants!
For goodness sakes. It doesn't even have anything to do with my signature or defoliation. Its the principal of comparison. How can you compare nugs grown with and without leaves if when you take the comparison photo you still LEAVE THE LEAVES ON WHICH BLOCK THE IMAGE FROM THE CAMERA.
I'm not saying you get fatter nugs when you leave the leaves on while taking a picture.
I'm saying you get fatter nugs when you leave the leaves on while GROWING the plant.
HOLY FREAKING SMOKES!
Why are they fatter? Healthier from not having to fight disease is my guess.
Now that is definitely one "freaky" post ...& everything about u is completely freaky . U have no pictures yourself of any grows in your album of anything at all . You dwell on this thread taking up hideous bandwidth pouting & peeving here from noon till dawn , insulting sentient people's intelligence .
YOU REALLY NEED TO GIVE IT A REST , whomever you are .
Because you are noxious , toxic , obnoxious & whole lot more besides .
You & your avatar are well matched ....
Just to be a little off topic here & expose you a little more than u think the average person can do ...what did u mean by this post on the "Things that should not exist" thread here in your post 114, which is borderline insanity:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4034672#post4034672
sharts that aren't sharts and then you shart because you let your guard down from the false shart. "
Now answer carefully , because the above post is borderline moron level or someone that is inconcievably deceptive & fake. And answer with care why u posted such absolute gibberish/drivel on a thread that both myself & Gypsy posted on as well --->sentient, heartfelt & well caring thoughtful things . I don't know who u are my friend , but i can tell u that i ----> really , really don't want to know who u are or what u are , or really care .
You & your avatar are well matched . You are distasteful , disrespectful, baiting , biting & loathsome in your demeaner ....did i make myself absolutely clear ? Give yourself a long rest whatever & whomever u are . You are certainly no boon this site or any other.
Are u for friggen real ?
Go get lost ...
best regards
Madrus Rose
PS: take a long hike in the mojave desert ...naked , in winter . And don't take
any ganja with u , because you don't even smoke ganja do you ?
So what are u doing here in the first place ? We can only wonder....
I Love This Thread!!!
I Love This Thread!!!
I Laughed... I Cried... I Feared For My Life!!!
I'm a lurker by nature... I rarely come out of the shadows. I'm a reader not a writer (actually I did technical writing at my last job... but I rarely post), and very reclusive in nature, I rarely share things with people but I felt moved at least a hundred times to respond to this thread while reading it over the last day. I resisted though because I wasn't caught up yet. Now I'm not sure what to add to it. I'm going to keep a breast of it and check in... If I'm not to lazy (or feeling off that day).
After about 50 pages I walked down and tore the leaves off seven plants... (SORRY H3ead... In actuality I carefully pinched about midway between leaf and the stalk... I said tore just to be colorful), and topped 5 of em. I'm already pleased with the results...
I had a problem with transplanting (operator error) and ended up with a very uneven growth rate/canopy, as well as... well I guess I need to back up a little bit to explain what's going on and why I did what I did. I was going to be running 9 cocoa kush under 1 1000w light, I got a hold of some pretty rag tag clones for cheap (I know... I know... you get what you pay for), they just weren't rooted well even though I was told they were 2 weeks old anyways I'm rambling... lost 5 and 2 got slowed down by about a week or two. I added 5 casey jones to replace the lost cocoa kush...
I'm going to use this to even out my canopy during this grow and see how I like it in this specific application.
None of you know me... although I feel like I know you (not just from this thread... did I mention I read a lot, I mean A LOT!) I'm a research nut... I have a veritable plethora of knowledge floating around in my head although I rarely share it unless asked.
This is one of the best threads I've read on here!
I do have to thank truth or lie... I wouldn't have found this thread unless I hadn't been distracted by that optical illusion H3ead put up that was in his sig (along with the link)... but man...you've been an ass, I'm sorry your grow didn't work out.
It's nice to see so many people take an idea and run with it, it promises tremendous potential as a shaping tool, a way to further manipulate plant growth.
I learned what to do (the successful grows shown here) and what not to do (the unsuccessful grows here)
Super big thanks to K33F for this thread and info...
I don't know how often I'll join the conversation in the future (we'll have to see).
I Love This Thread!!!
I Laughed... I Cried... I Feared For My Life!!!
I'm a lurker by nature... I rarely come out of the shadows. I'm a reader not a writer (actually I did technical writing at my last job... but I rarely post), and very reclusive in nature, I rarely share things with people but I felt moved at least a hundred times to respond to this thread while reading it over the last day. I resisted though because I wasn't caught up yet. Now I'm not sure what to add to it. I'm going to keep a breast of it and check in... If I'm not to lazy (or feeling off that day).
After about 50 pages I walked down and tore the leaves off seven plants... (SORRY H3ead... In actuality I carefully pinched about midway between leaf and the stalk... I said tore just to be colorful), and topped 5 of em. I'm already pleased with the results...
I had a problem with transplanting (operator error) and ended up with a very uneven growth rate/canopy, as well as... well I guess I need to back up a little bit to explain what's going on and why I did what I did. I was going to be running 9 cocoa kush under 1 1000w light, I got a hold of some pretty rag tag clones for cheap (I know... I know... you get what you pay for), they just weren't rooted well even though I was told they were 2 weeks old anyways I'm rambling... lost 5 and 2 got slowed down by about a week or two. I added 5 casey jones to replace the lost cocoa kush...
I'm going to use this to even out my canopy during this grow and see how I like it in this specific application.
None of you know me... although I feel like I know you (not just from this thread... did I mention I read a lot, I mean A LOT!) I'm a research nut... I have a veritable plethora of knowledge floating around in my head although I rarely share it unless asked.
This is one of the best threads I've read on here!
I do have to thank truth or lie... I wouldn't have found this thread unless I hadn't been distracted by that optical illusion H3ead put up that was in his sig (along with the link)... but man...you've been an ass, I'm sorry your grow didn't work out.
It's nice to see so many people take an idea and run with it, it promises tremendous potential as a shaping tool, a way to further manipulate plant growth.
I learned what to do (the successful grows shown here) and what not to do (the unsuccessful grows here)
Super big thanks to K33F for this thread and info...
I don't know how often I'll join the conversation in the future (we'll have to see).
All the Speculation is fun but here comes my Data !
with or without your results , those coke containers for pots is absolutely one of the most inspiring & funniest things i've ever seen posted in a long time . A lovely grow man , but the coke containers just make it priceless . A dripper in each one too !
Oh , ya gotta love this man , great stuff & Andy Warhol (and Cherry Garcia my friend )
would just love it !! And i do too, well done !
Gonna fire up a bowl & dream of being this creative , lol...kudos kid!
best regards
mr
The underlined should be replaced with improve overall bud quality without sacrificing growth tips.
I also wouldnt classify it as retards, but again, i dont want to debate vocab.
The top growth tip is generally the best smoke, but you cant use size to judge potency. A plant with 10 days vegged is going to create a smaller bud than one vegged for 2 months, but that doesnt mean her bud is less potent.
I had the underlined right...
Removing the leaves from the tops reduces their size, and does nothing to improve their quality.
I know the tops are the best... good reason to only grow tops.
Retards is right too.
retard
verb |riˈtärd| [ trans. ]
delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment .
over and over and over people describe the slowing of growth defoliation causes.
lollipopping and quasidefoliation are opposite techniques.
T
THE PABLOS
...I've been practicing much of this pruning technique.....it all started for me...when I was trimming off White Fly damaged leaves of flowering plants.
I find that White Fly (which I've had for yrs) prefer the most ripe/close to death harvest plants...but will feed/lay eggs on anything.
So.....because I run tight under moving 600s.....I need to keep my canopy even....and because I'm height restricted....I need to keep plants around 3' from the coco surface (1.7gal) to the tops of their flowers. Training etc...major tie downs....lolly pop etc etc etc...I've employed most methods over time....
My findings thus far (as I now also prune heavy in veg....pretty much exactly like the founder of this thread)....is that my plants slow down a bit....in veg.....but once in flower....they jam as normal. My yields and overall quality of flower....improve mostly because of density of bud. Less larf....more dense nugs....top to bottom.
Running perpetual...multi strain and from bean only.....some strains react better than others.....same as with anything else....when running lots of different plants....there are always differences in reactions.....to grow environment and grow technique.
Harvest are easier for me....because most the trimming is done.
White Fly are not having as much fun. I don't like killing things...so I attempt to deter. Less leaves....less places to do their thing. They don't mess with flowers.
As the founder of this thread said....it is difficult to do a side by side grow.....as it defeats the function. I can offer you pix of plants of various strains....at various growth stages....if any are interested.
It works for my style/environment....I'm objective....open minded....and not under optical illusions....not delusional for the most part.
Also....I'm on no set schedule for removing leaves....I do as I feel....when my eyes see shade. I also leave habitat leaves....like a smartly harvested forest has habitat trees....I leave select leaves to do their thing. It's a feel thing....but has method.
I find that White Fly (which I've had for yrs) prefer the most ripe/close to death harvest plants...but will feed/lay eggs on anything.
So.....because I run tight under moving 600s.....I need to keep my canopy even....and because I'm height restricted....I need to keep plants around 3' from the coco surface (1.7gal) to the tops of their flowers. Training etc...major tie downs....lolly pop etc etc etc...I've employed most methods over time....
My findings thus far (as I now also prune heavy in veg....pretty much exactly like the founder of this thread)....is that my plants slow down a bit....in veg.....but once in flower....they jam as normal. My yields and overall quality of flower....improve mostly because of density of bud. Less larf....more dense nugs....top to bottom.
Running perpetual...multi strain and from bean only.....some strains react better than others.....same as with anything else....when running lots of different plants....there are always differences in reactions.....to grow environment and grow technique.
Harvest are easier for me....because most the trimming is done.
White Fly are not having as much fun. I don't like killing things...so I attempt to deter. Less leaves....less places to do their thing. They don't mess with flowers.
As the founder of this thread said....it is difficult to do a side by side grow.....as it defeats the function. I can offer you pix of plants of various strains....at various growth stages....if any are interested.
It works for my style/environment....I'm objective....open minded....and not under optical illusions....not delusional for the most part.
Also....I'm on no set schedule for removing leaves....I do as I feel....when my eyes see shade. I also leave habitat leaves....like a smartly harvested forest has habitat trees....I leave select leaves to do their thing. It's a feel thing....but has method.
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We should all have an open mind, & take in peoples observations/results, there is no denying the OP has got it cracked, seems to work on all his strains, if you havent seen already take a peek at his tunnel grows in his album, proof is in the pudding as they say. its obvious that the OP is a veteran grower & i have to believe most of what he says as he backs it up with picture proof & gives weights(looks right to me).
Thanks for your feedback Pablos!
(i doubt many people would get the tecnique right first time, its asking alot imo)
Like it or Lump it! Nobody has to do it! its unconventional so of course its gonna get blown up, just look at this thread lol!
Thanks for your feedback Pablos!
(i doubt many people would get the tecnique right first time, its asking alot imo)
Like it or Lump it! Nobody has to do it! its unconventional so of course its gonna get blown up, just look at this thread lol!
Excellent! The extra weight on lower buds adds up! May I give you a suggestion to how you could increase your yield? Use 1 Gal Smart Pots and Coco with your drippers...works really well! I will never use a regular pot again, I had a plant almost 7 oz in a 1 gal Smart Pot. Just a suggestion, I would try it on a few just for the hell of it next time and compare. Good luck!!
youve got nothing right.
opposite = op·po·site –adjective
contrary or radically different in some respect common to both, as in nature, qualities, direction, result, or significance; opposed:
One removes leaves and one removes growth tips. Thats not opposite.
One removes leaves and one doesnt remove leaves. Those are opposite.
===============
The point isnt to 'improve their quality' ('their' being the main cola), its to improve overall bud quality.
I give up, i though you were reasonable but apparently you think removing branches is the opposite of removing leaves. I cant deal with someone who lacks a basic understanding of opposition.
171 pages in this thread, wow.
Just wanted to post my notes - opinions lead nowhere, but I did do a side by side, AK-47 from clone, bothy clones rooted in 9 days, went into Happy Frog, vegged for 14 days in Happy Frog, no training, put in a 2 gallon container, flowered under a 400 watt SunPulse 4k bulb. Un-trained untopped, one had medium defoliation of blocking leaves, the other was left alone.
Both flowered 62 days, here are the yields:
Control: 21.25 grams total
Defoliated: 18.5 grams, also this plant had a good deal more white pistils than the control.
I have done light defoliation on and off now for about 11 months, and have come to the conclusion that it is ineffective in improving yields and should be abandoned for a more practical technique such as training.
Just wanted to post my notes - opinions lead nowhere, but I did do a side by side, AK-47 from clone, bothy clones rooted in 9 days, went into Happy Frog, vegged for 14 days in Happy Frog, no training, put in a 2 gallon container, flowered under a 400 watt SunPulse 4k bulb. Un-trained untopped, one had medium defoliation of blocking leaves, the other was left alone.
Both flowered 62 days, here are the yields:
Control: 21.25 grams total
Defoliated: 18.5 grams, also this plant had a good deal more white pistils than the control.
I have done light defoliation on and off now for about 11 months, and have come to the conclusion that it is ineffective in improving yields and should be abandoned for a more practical technique such as training.
Well that is the opposite of my experience. My plants that get defoliated could finish faster than non-defoliated plants....most people report the same. I had an increased yield. What strain were you doing? If it is an Indica, maybe that is why...so far my Indica plant is the only plant to do worse.
Obviously you have tried it and it is not for you. That is the only way to know. Do what works best for you!
I've got nothing wrong.
Your omission of the pertinent information does not make me wrong, it makes your explanation incomplete.
One removes the leaves and leaves the lower branches, the other removes the lower branches and leaves the leaves.
opposites... easy to see, easy to understand. Contrary in an aspect common to both. Opposite.
removing growth tips is called topping, it is different from both lolipoping and the quasidefoliation presented in this thread, but the opposite of neither.
I give up, if you're gonna be intentionally unreasonable, and mischaracterize my assertions... I can't deal with someone who refuses to look at the whole picture, but instead cherrypicks parts of points to nitpick.... And cannot recognize opposites when they're staring him plainly in the face.
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GPW is not an accurate measurement anyhow. And plant count is relevant! Let's say you have a 600 watt HPS in a 3x3 space and you fit 10 plants in that area. Now lets say you have a 4x4 tent right next to it with the same 600 watt HPS, but you can fit 14 same sized plants in that space. Which one will yield more? Same amount of Watts, but you can fit 4 more plants under the same light. The 600 is plenty light for both spaces, but you should yield more in the 4x4 space.
How big is your space?
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