Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Scrogerman]

'Well said BC, & you Bully Boys out there(you know who you are), should be ashamed of yourselves, picking on Noobs, like slapping a little kid, i know your sort lol-should be ashamed! We should all get along like family here at IC, not cuss & insult like childish little teenagers!-fkin grow up & contribute 'something' positive, leave the negative at home or someink!
I think your coming on great 'Red', you got skillz man, i remember when you first set it all up & think youve come a long way since then. stick with it buddy!-take no notice!
Peace......Scroger!

(edit)
Has anyone disscussed removing/amputating 50-75% of the actual leaf mass, removing leaf Blades rather than a leaf prune in this thread at all?. Ive done it but only to a few leaves, they didnt die & were fine, now im thinking would doing this, even leaving single leaf blades give a much better overall effect than actually removing the whole leaf, maybe a combo of leaf prune & amputation might be good. im sure doing this would serve a better purpose than heavy leaf pruning alone??

Kind thoughts please people!??

 

[huntingbb]

lmao at huntingbb's grasping at semantic straws to justify his misapplication of definitions.


deboning is removing all the bones. - again doesn't always actually happen, and yet that's still deboned chicken or fish or whatever.
deforestation is clearing of trees. - and yet trees remain. they get planted again. a forest borders another forest by a valley or hill, and the trees go through the borders, funny enough Ive never seen a complete lack of trees anywhere, its ALWAYS localized.
Incompletely defrosted = NOT defrosted. duh. - and yet.... frost happens.
deactivated means no longer activated. - ever hear of a deactivated bomb going off? explosions happen.
debugged is clear of bugs. If bugs remain then the room was not successfully debugged. - i would tend to agree with you there, however the best bug may end up being a person on the other side of a wall.


defoliation is removing the leaves from, not removing a couple few leaves. sigh. not according to the professors.


your silly semantic squirming and dancing around the reality of the situation makes me rofl.

And yet i was and remain correct in each and every case. Without any semicircle crap to break the mood. Again happy turkey day!

 

[Think Green]

I posted this in another Defoliation Thread. I believe it still applies.


Here we are discussing this controversial technique on Ic & tossing out experiments to try and provide a definite answer and all over the world there are growers who do nothing different to try and further our knowledge about Cannabis. When I begin to think of all the revolutionary developments in life & our understanding of technology, science, environment & botany I wonder why there would be anything but support for the members of our community whom are trying to find new methods and develop new ways of thinking. I think that this is IcMag at its best. The community here can inadvertently advance our knowledge of Cannabis by doing experiments just like these and providing a documented cycle with results whether they be positive or negative. Not everyone has the time, space or patience to take on what I would call "Scientific Study". I for one applaud the effort these members of our community give to help us have a better understanding of Cannabis agricultural methods.

 

[MyAssIsGrass]

I've had to remove so many off-topic posts from this thread, if you don't have anything useful to add to the discussion on defoliation techniques/effects then don't bother to post in this thread

I'm going to add a question mark to the title of this thread to make it less of a statement since there is obviously a lot of contrasting debate on this subject

 

[prowler]

Could there be any way to break up this topic to two different sections? Other one could be somekind of declaration or manifest and other one the actual debate, technical detail and side by side discussion?

Maybe that could lead to something other than headless accusations and personal discords.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

huntingbb, you're right-ish, but your right-ishness is irrelevant to anything I've asserted in this thread.
Nothing I've said has remotely resembled nonsense.

 

[Bionic]

Take the nonsense to PM.

 

[Scrogerman]

Back to the thread...

Has anyone disscussed removing/amputating 50-75% of the actual leaf mass, removing leaf Blades rather than a leaf prune in this thread at all?. Ive done it but only to a few leaves, they didnt die & were fine, now im thinking would doing this, even leaving single leaf blades give a much better overall effect than actually removing the whole leaf, maybe a combo of leaf prune & amputation might be good. im sure doing this would serve a better purpose than heavy leaf pruning alone??

Kind thoughts please people!?? especially your thoughts Head?(everyone too of course!!)

let more light in to Budsites without removing entire leaves, just 50-75%+, leaving a blade or 2, seems like a better move for the plant & you still get a similar effect id of thought, if not better!

 

[JWP]

Yeah we could have the thread split into two sections.
One section with actual evidence of an increase in yield. Have it stickied.
And the other section with all the crap. Just bin it.
Guess which section this whole thread is?
I guess a question mark will do for now.. ?


Scrogerman, you cant be serious? Go arround the plant and remove 4 or 5 blades from each leaf?

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah we could have the thread split into two sections.
One section with actual evidence of an increase in yield. Have it stickied.
And the other section with all the crap. Just bin it.
Guess which section this whole thread is?
I guess a question mark will do for now.. ?


Scrogerman, you cant be serious? Go arround the plant and remove 4 or 5 blades from each leaf?

why not, i didnt mean 100% of them anyway, a mix of both leaf prune & amputation leaving blades instead of removing the whole leaf anyway.

Why not?, explain yourself like i did bro please.?!

Dont you think it would serve the plant better as a whole leaving part of the leaf rather than removing the whole thing &or all of them(defoliating), why not bro?

Ive done this a few times to let light in & observed no adverse effects like you do when you remove the whole leaf from its Budsite/Stem etc.

this thread has lost its way, lets try to get it back on track in the good spirit of ICMag!

 

[Scrogerman]

Some of the points of leaf pruning are to let more light to budsites(to name one), heavy pruning can be detrimental to growth IMO, leaves do serve a purpose you know, so why not just remove some blades, its still part leaf pruning & its doing the job of letting in the light to budsites, without having to remove the whole leaf etc etc etc,.!
dont tell me you have never clipped a few blades off in your time, what were your obs man?

ive been waiting for someone to bring this up properly but nobody has, i can see it working better than defoliating or full leaf pruning. someone wanna do a side-by-side of this, no dont bother there will be too much arguing & cussing.! i'll do the job myself sometime.

 

[JWP]

Nope never cut a blade off a leaf ever..

I get what your saying but buds dont do photosynthesis, leaves do. No point in cutting blades off to let light to a bud.

The way i see it is. If you have 10 leaves they do their photosynthesis and provide energy for what ever the plant needs to do.

If you remove 1 leaf you just lost 10% of your energy supply + any energy that is stored in the leaf + energy to recover + energy needed to grow a replacement leaf.

Bend em twist em do whatever you like to them. But as soon as you remove one or part of one you loose.

I dont see a point in removing one leaf to let light to another leaf because you still loose...

Hi yield can easily be achieved before the grow even starts with selection. Choose a flowering clone and have a million bud sites without removing a single leaf. Without slowing growth for a single second. Without cause any stress to the plant...

 

[Scrogerman]

I do ScrOG mate, now thats a proper high yield tecnique. sorry man i just dont agree with you.

look at the Canopy in ScrOG conditions & SOG too, now if you have a real thick canopy, you have to prune to let light in. My point was i think it would be a lot & i mean Tons better to remove just part of the leaf rather than the whole thing. you can argue all you want but imo this would work better than defoliating or heavy leaf pruning.

No light gets to the Budsite you know what happens, why bother trying to argue, im not here for that, i come with a genuine question & possible answer to everyones argument for & against. its a bit of both. It might work better-it might not!.

ive been growing for 20 years or so now, & have many times used this tec, butt never alot, im wondering if it would be better than what alot of people have been sugesting.

id be paticularly interested in what G'head has to say on my questions concerning this.

Thanks JWP, i get you dont like removing leaves but we obviously aint on the same page or grow in a similar way. I cant seem to see any pics of yours about, how do you grow & what is the usual shape of your canopy man?

best o Luck!

btw, i use a combination of leaf tucking(in rotation) & leaf pruning in my ScrOG conditions, always have!

oh & what is a calyx's growth called? not photosyth according to you, teach me something? is it called something else! there's plenty of leaves in buds! calyx, leaf & trichs make up what a Bud is! they grow together! do they not?

so if you dont do it & aint even interested in the tec, what the hell are you doing in this thread, no offence but i dont think you belong here at all bro!

 

[JWP]

I'm not here to argue either. You virtually pleeded with me to explain myself and i did.

I grow every variety i get 12/12 from seed and open pollinate under a 400w and store. Anything special i find i take a flowering clone grow it like the one above and sgrog it NBG style with another 400w.

One day when its safe i will do pix... But after OG will it ever be safe?

I prune but not to the point where light passes through the canopy.

 

[Anti]

When did this become a cock-measuring contest between growers? If defoliation (whatever it really ought to be called) is beneficial, let's see some testimony. Pictures. evidence. As much as we can get.

If it's not beneficial, let's see some testimony. Pictures, evidence. As much as we can get.

can we stop measuring each others dicks and proving we're OG?

A love of this plant has brought us all together. We don't need to put more effort into tearing each other apart.

 

[Maripan]

An Experiment

An Experiment

I just posted on my grow thread (see link below my signature) the results of an experiment in trimming. Here's the text of that post:

Trimming Experiment and Yield

One experiment I did was to see how yield is affected when a grower trims lower branches and redirects energy to the upper nodes of the plants. On Post #4 of this thread I explained how I went about doing so:

"Plants 1,2, and 3 were lightly trimmed so that the first nodes above the branching above the topping points will flower. Plant 4 was lolli-popped three nodes up. On plants 5 and 6 I pruned the first two nodes and branching above the topping points. I wanted to test the theories around pruning so by using these three approaches we will get to see how bud size and weight are affected by each."

So here's the results:

#1 = 56g
#2 = 48g
#3 = 46g
#4 = 70g
#5 = 28g
#6 = 34g

The plants (#'s 5 and 6) that were trimmed down the most, produced the lowest yield. The highest yield was produced by #4, the odd plant that stretched, had thicker stems, and larger buds. Plant #'s 1, 2, and 3, did significantly better than #'s 5 and 6.

Given these results, next time I will go with a longer veg period, say, two or three weeks, trim off the first nodes above the topping points, and then let them grow out with occasional trimming to increase air flow in my small grow area.

 

[JWP]

Whatever dude talk all you like. You asked about your technique of cutting a few blades off a leaf and you didnt like my response so you start with the insults.

Weather you like what i have to say or not going arround the plant cutting a few blades off leaves is a bad idea.

 

[Scrogerman]

ok man thats your opinion & i never started with the insults i think you will find!, i can take that fair & thats a much better attitude also.
but i dont agree with you like i said earlier & would like to hear from more seasoned & professional MJ growers, where i believe i may get a more precise answer to my very valid & true to this thread questions.
best of luck to you JWP.

ill repost your response here: no i wont but i hope people check back to see my questions!
especially Head & any pro's!

(you dont look very old behind that Bud man!)

 

[El Toker]

Pulling leaves off your plant - A low yield technique

Pulling leaves off your plant - A low yield technique

I just posted on my grow thread (see link below my signature) the results of an experiment in trimming. Here's the text of that post:

Trimming Experiment and Yield

One experiment I did was to see how yield is affected when a grower trims lower branches and redirects energy to the upper nodes of the plants. On Post #4 of this thread I explained how I went about doing so:

"Plants 1,2, and 3 were lightly trimmed so that the first nodes above the branching above the topping points will flower. Plant 4 was lolli-popped three nodes up. On plants 5 and 6 I pruned the first two nodes and branching above the topping points. I wanted to test the theories around pruning so by using these three approaches we will get to see how bud size and weight are affected by each."

So here's the results:

#1 = 56g
#2 = 48g
#3 = 46g
#4 = 70g
#5 = 28g
#6 = 34g

The plants (#'s 5 and 6) that were trimmed down the most, produced the lowest yield. The highest yield was produced by #4, the odd plant that stretched, had thicker stems, and larger buds. Plant #'s 1, 2, and 3, did significantly better than #'s 5 and 6.

Given these results, next time I will go with a longer veg period, say, two or three weeks, trim off the first nodes above the topping points, and then let them grow out with occasional trimming to increase air flow in my small grow area.

Thanks, for what is so far the most valuable post on this thread, I nearly missed it buried in the middle of this ego shit-storm.

 

[Scrogerman]

This was my post- #2468

Back to the thread...

Has anyone disscussed removing/amputating 50-75% of the actual leaf mass, removing leaf Blades rather than a leaf prune in this thread at all?. Ive done it but only to a few leaves, they didnt die & were fine, now im thinking would doing this, even leaving single leaf blades give a much better overall effect than actually removing the whole leaf, maybe a combo of leaf prune & amputation might be good. im sure doing this would serve a better purpose than heavy leaf pruning alone??

Kind thoughts please people!?? especially your thoughts Head?(everyone too of course!!)

let more light in to Budsites without removing entire leaves, just 50-75%+, leaving a blade or 2, seems like a better move for the plant & you still get a similar effect id of thought, if not better!

now i hope this gets answered by someone who can!