Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Madrus Rose]

I'm not here to argue either. You virtually pleeded with me to explain myself and i did.


I grow every variety i get 12/12 from seed and open pollinate under a 400w and store. Anything special i find i take a flowering clone grow it like the one above and sgrog it NBG style with another 400w.

One day when its safe i will do pix... But after OG will it ever be safe?

I prune but not to the point where light passes through the canopy.

U grow everything 12/12 from seed and open pollenate & store ?? What does that mean u store it ? Then take a flowering clone from a plant grown under 12/12 from seed & "sgrog" it ? This has to be one of the most unique approaches to getting almost zero yield hav ever heard anyone admitting to practicing on the net in over 12yrs , bar none . I really think u need some desperately .

If u grow from seed under 12/12 , the plant is going pretty much
into flower around the 10-12th node , yet manage to take a
flowering clone from this flowering juvenile plant to
continue on with your grow?
(unbelievable & thought i'd heard everything once but this approach almost makes me want to , lol)
"" One day when its safe i will do pix... But after OG will it ever
be safe?

* maybe the ones that abducted u are after all of us now
& we should all go hide now ?? lol

"I prune but not to the point where light passes through the canopy"

Again your way with words & descriptions defies understanding ,
for if u are starting with flowering clones from flowering
seedlings you aren't going to have very much "canopy"
to begin with ?

what can one possibly say but ...beam me up scotty !

 

[Scrogerman]

What JWP seems to fail to understand is by not removing leaves that are shading out other bud-sites, those buds have no light penetration & wont bloody grow! His argument is not valid at all & like i said he brings nothing but negatives to this entire thread, he has NOT contributed 1(one) piece of useful info in the entire thread.

if leaves shelter Budsites the Bud will not grow so how does leaving this leaf on the plant gain you 10%. he says if you remove any leaf youy lose its stored energy(10%). even in scrog conditions, which i dont believe he knows anything about. You have to prune the canopy in ScrOG & SOG or too many leaves will shade out budsites & they will not grow, he fails to grasp this simple concept/fact.

My Q you may now see as valid. why remove the whole leaf, when removing part of it gives the best of both worlds. problems over/solved, everyone wins(exept JWP), because JWP left half his budsites in shade & they never matured lol.

So you see y question is valid. i never insulted you JWP but you have insulted several people in the last few pages alone & bring no positive contribution to this thread. you are a thread wrecker & a troll, its as simple & asd plain to see as that & i hope you get thrown off the board, but dont wish you banned alltogether, that wouldnt be fair, you may bring something useful to another thread, but judging by your attitude to new thinking this is unlikely. i wish no further part in this thread!

good luck all & happy trollin JWP, you are a digital happy slapper imo! best of luck!

 

[Madrus Rose]

Nope never cut a blade off a leaf ever..

I get what your saying but buds dont do photosynthesis, leaves do. No point in cutting blades off to let light to a bud.

The way i see it is. If you have 10 leaves they do their photosynthesis and provide energy for what ever the plant needs to do.

If you remove 1 leaf you just lost 10% of your energy supply + any energy that is stored in the leaf + energy to recover + energy needed to grow a replacement leaf.

Bend em twist em do whatever you like to them. But as soon as you remove one or part of one you loose.

I dont see a point in removing one leaf to let light to another leaf because you still loose...

Hi yield can easily be achieved before the grow even starts with selection. Choose a flowering clone and have a million bud sites without removing a single leaf. Without slowing growth for a single second. Without cause any stress to the plant...

Absolutely priceless .... just don't know where to begin addressing the depth of reasoning in this post. Not to pick on you but just wish to save this treat for further study later .
All is illuminated ...

 

[Scrogerman]

LOL, see! Thats it im gone! I just hope Head or someone worthy comes back to answer my valid Q!
G'Luck MRose!

 

[JWP]

Madrus Rose, awesome post! You must know about Hi-Yield, your quoting me. So lets see your big buds. O wait not a single pic in your gallery. Well your oppinion is worth a lot.

12/12 from seed to make seeds and preserve the genes only. My yield is the seeds.
If i see an exceptional plant i take a clone while its in flower. By the time it roots and reveges i have harvested and tested the smoke.
If its still worthy after the test then its scrogged.


<--- Scrogerman, you wish you could grow baseball bat sized buds like me with a measly 400w.
This thread is about a Hi-Yield technique.
Is that not a big bud? I know about hi-yield. Maybe you are the one who shouldnt be posting in this thread. Lets see your big buds...

 

[Madrus Rose]

What JWP seems to fail to understand is by not removing leaves that are shading out other bud-sites, those buds have no light penetration & wont bloody grow! His argument is not valid at all & like i said he brings nothing but negatives to this entire thread, he has NOT contributed 1(one) piece of useful info in the entire thread.

Well i'm not fixated on anything JWP has to say for most of it runs up in circles into the ozone . Do think he tried this technique & employed it badly over-doing it at some point & has just come to vent his rage ... or at least a severe case of frustration .

(Am glad he disvested his or herself of the "murf the smurf" avatar tho, lol)

Back to the beginning of this thread defoliation was defined by the thread starter as --->leaf removal . Usually beginning from the bottom up & later ontop. Very simple concept but to what extreme or how much & when is very much still the topic here .

* Takes a certain genius to take something simple & make it into
something complex ...

(or maybe Einstein phrased it a little differently ! )

 

[rocket high]

you are a digital happy slapper imo! best of luck!

good one scrog's like it ....

to scrog means that you dont have big baseball bat sized buds but lots more of medium sized buds ...just a bit of info for jwp

 

[JWP]

good one scrog's like it ....

to scrog means that you dont have big baseball bat sized buds but lots more of medium sized buds ...just a bit of info for jwp

So what do you think about going arround the plant cutting off a few blades from each leaf? Good idea?

 

[TruthOrLie]

JWP, Grat3ful, Myself, and others: Could we please see some _better_ proof of increased yields?

Scrogerman & crew: NO! You are trolls! Go away. MODs ban them! BAN THEM!

Scrogerman, you do realise you are "trolling" this thread harder than anyone who is asking for _more_ definitive proof of defoliation successes?

It is not trolling to ask for something more clear cut and precise. It is trolling to call names and fling insults and accusations. At least a mod... excuse me, a supermod will come save you.

 

[rocket high]

untill i see a genuine side by side test of these techniques then i cant really answer but i personaly tuck my leafs under if they are shading the buds below or sometimes but not alot pull them off ...if it wont stay tucked under,

 

[TruthOrLie]

untill i see a genuine side by side test of these techniques then i cant really answer

And that's all we're asking.

Why would you ask someone who does not believe in this technique, or who has failed results from this technique to, to show a side by side?

Anyone, please, who believes in this technique, please feel free and welcome to post more side by sides.

I'm not trying to chew you out or lambaste you... whoa, what does that word even mean?

Anyway, I'm not trying to lambaste you, and I don't think anyone else is.

We just want to see more "genuine side by sides".

If you hate on that idea, keep it to yourself. There are others who are very willing to share.

Lets keep our minds open.

 

[El Toker]

Pruning - A low yield technique

Pruning - A low yield technique

So what do you think about going arround the plant cutting off a few blades from each leaf? Good idea?

The result would be to massively increase the exposed surface area of the wound, providing an even bigger entry for a variety of pathogens. As there's a large question mark over the effectiveness of lots of pruning as it is, it seems to be a bad idea to introduce even more trauma and confuse the matter further.

 

[rocket high]

And that's all we're asking.

Why would you ask someone who does not believe in this technique, or who has failed results from this technique to, to show a side by side?

Anyone, please, who believes in this technique, please feel free and welcome to post more side by sides.

I'm not trying to chew you out or lambaste you... whoa, what does that word even mean?

Anyway, I'm not trying to lambaste you, and I don't think anyone else is.

We just want to see more "genuine side by sides".

If you hate on that idea, keep it to yourself. There are others who are very willing to share.

Lets keep our minds open.

well if you want to find out do a side by side yourself or i will when my cheeses go into flower and then i'll give you an answer ..no need to be snooty about what i said i was trying to keep it civilised ...

 

[dramamine]

The result would be to massively increase the exposed surface area of the wound, providing an even bigger entry for a variety of pathogens. As there's a large question mark over the effectiveness of lots of pruning as it is, it seems to be a bad idea to introduce even more trauma and confuse the matter further.

Leaf shortening/blade removal doesn't seem to introduce all those pathogens when done to clones....think about it.

 

[El Toker]

Pruning - A low yield technique

Pruning - A low yield technique

Leaf shortening/blade removal doesn't seem to introduce all those pathogens when done to clones....think about it.

Cutting blades is an established technique for clones inside the protected environment of a propagator. people have been doing that for decades to reduce the area for transpiration, yet the practice is not the norm when it comes to pruning rooted plants in the grow area. Maybe it's for the reason I suggested or maybe it's for some other reason, but it's certainly the norm. I don't think it would be wise to start debating the merits of another badly thought-through "revolutionary" gardening technique when there are so many questions about pruning and it's effects on yield to still be answered.

We've got one set of results so far.

 

[rocket high]

i think the only way to get answers is for a large group of us to do tests and post up the results and then we can make a decsion on whats the best for the plant it might be strain dependant but thats opening another can of worms all together..

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I just posted on my grow thread (see link below my signature) the results of an experiment in trimming. Here's the text of that post:

Trimming Experiment and Yield

One experiment I did was to see how yield is affected when a grower trims lower branches and redirects energy to the upper nodes of the plants. On Post #4 of this thread I explained how I went about doing so:

"Plants 1,2, and 3 were lightly trimmed so that the first nodes above the branching above the topping points will flower. Plant 4 was lolli-popped three nodes up. On plants 5 and 6 I pruned the first two nodes and branching above the topping points. I wanted to test the theories around pruning so by using these three approaches we will get to see how bud size and weight are affected by each."

So here's the results:

#1 = 56g
#2 = 48g
#3 = 46g
#4 = 70g
#5 = 28g
#6 = 34g

The plants (#'s 5 and 6) that were trimmed down the most, produced the lowest yield. The highest yield was produced by #4, the odd plant that stretched, had thicker stems, and larger buds. Plant #'s 1, 2, and 3, did significantly better than #'s 5 and 6.

Given these results, next time I will go with a longer veg period, say, two or three weeks, trim off the first nodes above the topping points, and then let them grow out with occasional trimming to increase air flow in my small grow area.

These experiences match my own.... the only reason I've even bothered posting in this thread is because of the poorly applied vocabulary which is being used to describe the technique and the claims about results which were completely contrary to my own experience (all other variables being equal), and unverified aside from 'looks bigger'. From the people who have bothered to quantify their results, I have only seen one example of a measured increase which can't be attributed to 'more veg time = bigger yield'.

 

[dramamine]

Cutting blades is an established technique for clones inside the protected environment of a propagator. people have been doing that for decades to reduce the area for transpiration, yet the practice is not the norm when it comes to pruning rooted plants in the grow area. Maybe it's for the reason I suggested or maybe it's for some other reason, but it's certainly the norm. I don't think it would be wise to start debating the merits of another badly thought-through "revolutionary" gardening technique when there are so many questions about pruning and it's effects on yield to still be answered.

We've got one set of results so far.

Hm. This thread is meant to be about the exchange of ideas. Do you have any other argument against leaf trimming other than "it's not the norm"?

Let's push ahead and share ideas and experiences rather than attack each other as if this was a war of some kind. When you say 'badly thought through' you're forgetting that the discussion here will go a long way toward that thinking through process. It's valuable to be able to discuss these things with other growers, that's the magic of ICMag.

Also: 'Pruning-a low yield technique' is a funny thing to write. Peace

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I have no idea if there would be an advantage to removing a blade or two from some leaves vs. remove the whole leaf or vs not removing the offending leaf. I do know my best yields have always been from bigger cola'd plants.

 

[El Toker]

Pruning - A low yield technique

Pruning - A low yield technique

Hm. This thread is meant to be about the exchange of ideas. Do you have any other argument against leaf trimming other than "it's not the norm"

Yes I do, it was about increasing the exposed surface area of the wound and I made the point about this only being normal practice in the protected environment inside a humidity dome. If you spent a bit more time reading my posts and a bit less time being a smart arse in responding to them you would have noticed that. It would also make communicating with you much less tedious. However, the fact that the rest of the world adopts a particular practice is a valid observation in itself. It leads to two possibilities - Maybe you and your defoliating brethren are extremely bright, horticultural Einsteins and able to see things in a special way that is beyond the capacity of the rest of us. Or maybe you're not that bright and keep coming up with dumb ideas.

Without doubt though that there is a strand of irrational sensitivity to any kind of sceptical questioning on this thread that makes it seem more like a belief system than a gardening technique and the continued bullying of dissenters is pretty nauseating. as are all the defoliation sock puppet accounts.