Dankwolfs rks breeding project and breeding info discussion

[MJPassion]

Then would a strain that has been breed for more generations be more likely to have traits that dominate the same dominate traits on a plant breed for less generations?
Dominance, as far as I know, can only be determined through observation of charachteristics in the progeny. I don't think that just because one parental line is bred longer that it will necessarily dominate the younger cross.
Or at that point are other factors deciding which plant genes prevail?

I'm not sure that there is a set of rules to determine what is dominant or not. Chimera might be able to answer the question. Or maybe Sam S.

Recombination of genes is an interesting subject.
Especially once you grow beyond Mendels models.
Mendel did an awesome job at simplifying the basics but the basics barely touch what is really happening within the genetic code.

Allels & epigenetics don't add to the potential knowledge base, they multiply it exponentially.

Also, at this point, i think this convo need moved to it's proper place so that we're not taking over Dankwolfs thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26677

 

[Yard dog]

ie: Plant A = AA, Plant B = BB you're only getting one phenotype (and genotype)...... AB, pretty sure that would make it a homogeneous group!!
(More likely to be like AA x Bb giving 1 phenotype but 2 genotypes)

(all above is in the most simplistic terms ie one trait etc)

sorry it wouldn't let me edit it, but needed to for clarity.

 

[resin_lung]

YES
The difference being the number of males to females being grown to completion & evaluating their offspring (grown to completion).

Your use of thr term phenotype is incorrect also. Phenotype cannot be determined by looking at genetic sequences alone.



(1)The female with the same traits as dominate will show you in her offspring whether she is Homozygous or not when she is mated to a male that IS homozygous for the same trait.
If she is Homozygous the progeny will be also & that trait will breed true through her offspring.
If she is heterozygous, roughly 25% of her offspring will show variable for that particular trait.

(2)Two doms=what?
If both male & female are homo for the dominate trait, only one can dominate the other.
They don't double up as suggested above.
Each egg or sperm/pollen grain contain half of the genetic code of it's mother/father. DNA is split like a zipper & the mother donates half the genes & the father donates half of the genetic sequence.

There are quite a few folks that can explain this better than me so I hope this makes some sens(i).

Also...
This is the super simple version...
Bring allels & epigenetics into the equation & we step into another relm.

Good stuff. Thanks MJ. Eventually this shit will stick.haha appreciate it.

 

[Ibechillin]

Then would a strain that has been breed for more generations be more likely to have traits that dominate the same dominate traits on a plant breed for less generations? Or at that point are other factors deciding which plant genes prevail?

This is essentially how landrace strains developed their distinct growth characteristics and variations in leaf size, leaf pigment, and bud shape/density depending on geographical origin.

A group of plants native to an area breed, then their offspring breed for generations adapting more and more to the environment they live in. Each generation giving less variation to the genepool isolating traits, and making them less tolerable to environmental uncertainty.

This is also why breeders advertise some seeds "for indoor" cultivation. After many generations of breeding and living in a consistent environment, the plants become less prepared for change. Versus unadulterated landrace genetics that have endured the unpredictable outdoor weather for thousands of years and happily welcome it.

Ok. has anyone noticed the difference in plants when compared to being grown inside vs. out?
For example, the PCK plants I have indoors put out much narrower leaves compared to the outdoor plants. They look like different plants even though they are clones from the same mother.

From Royal Queen Seeds:

GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE

Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe.

It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated.

The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.

genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)

QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS

Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain.

Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent.

Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).

if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment.

Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype.

End quote from Royal Queen Seeds

I am glad you brought the fact that environment affects phenotype.

When I switched on CO2 and my new spot three strains changed so much they are almost un recognisable. Sour Diesel changed the most. Fat maple like leaves have gone super sativa skinny.

I noticed this on my blue cheese plant outdoors also, its an 80% indica.

When i first put it out it was overcast skies the first like 2 weeks and the plant grew thick fat 9 bladed leaves bigger than my head all over.

When the weather started clearing up i began defoliating and topping it. The plants new leaves are all these like hybrid leaves in between indica and sativa now. The older leaves on the bottom are still fat thick indica leaves, but all the new growth took on a different type more sativa in growth.

Sativas originate from hot and humid tropical environments near the equator and adapted to resist intense light, heat and mold.

They grow tall and stretchy, the leaves are long and thin fingered and are light green. Especially equatorial varieties which have less chlorophyll and more yellow pigments in order to protect the plant from intense light. Long internode spacing and airy buds allow optimal airflow to stay dry and cool.

Indica origin info Source: softsecrets

Afghan weed presents some of the heirloom genetics of the indica family, which traditionally come from that part of the world: Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Nepal, etc. There is a reason that such plants are very dark green (due to their mountainous origin), with large palmate leaves: this allows them to convert as little sunlight as possible into as much growth energy as needed. Buds are dense and large, a result of tightly-spaced internodes – an evolutionary defence mechanism that enables the plant to stay warm in cold or high-altitude settings. Large, dense buds also keep the seeds warm and protected, encouraging new generations to flourish.

End Quote from softsecrets

 

[Elmer Bud]

G `day IB

I think Land Races have to have a certain amount of diversity or perish in an extreme season .

The ability to flourish in extremes is also in the genetic code . Genotype vs Phenotype ?
The environment affects the Pheno type .

Cannabis fields would have millions or billions of seeds each with its own recombinate differences to its siblings . AKA there is only 1 Micheal Jordan . Bx cross as many times as you like it still aint Jordan .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Natural high]

I'm not sure that there is a set of rules to determine what is dominant or not. Chimera might be able to answer the question. Or maybe Sam S.

Recombination of genes is an interesting subject.
Especially once you grow beyond Mendels models.
Mendel did an awesome job at simplifying the basics but the basics barely touch what is really happening within the genetic code.

I thought I might chime in as I may have something to add regarding dominance in genetics.

Diploid organisms can only have two alleles for any particular gene, although there may be many different versions which exist in the population. Those two alleles may be the same (homozygous) or different (heterozygous).

By definition, a dominant allele (for any particular gene) will express it's phenotype in the heterozygous state. This dominance however, is a relative thing and only relates to the other allele it is paired with. For instance, an allele X may be dominant over Y, but recessive when paired with A, co-dominant with C, and exhibit incomplete dominance with Z.

Then of course there is the added complexity of epistasis and the fact that many phenotype characteristics are controlled by the interactions of multiple genes. Genetics is infinitely more complicated than a simple Mendelian punnett square.


.

 

[MJPassion]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that diploids only have 2 allels...

I'll prob get flamed but Wiki seems to disagree.
Maybe the statement made is incomplete.

Dominant and recessive alleles

Main article: Dominance (genetics)
In many cases, genotypic interactions between the two alleles at a locus can be described as dominant or recessive, according to which of the two homozygous phenotypes the heterozygote most resembles. Where the heterozygote is indistinguishable from one of the homozygotes, the allele involved is said to be dominant to the other, which is said to be recessive to the former.[5] The degree and pattern of dominance varies among loci. This type of interaction was first formally described by Gregor Mendel. However, many traits defy this simple categorization and the phenotypes are modeled by co-dominance and polygenic inheritance.

The term "wild type" allele is sometimes used to describe an allele that is thought to contribute to the typical phenotypic character as seen in "wild" populations of organisms, such as fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster). Such a "wild type" allele was historically regarded as dominant (overpowering - always expressed), common, and normal, in contrast to "mutant" alleles regarded as recessive, rare, and frequently deleterious. It was formerly thought that most individuals were homozygous for the "wild type" allele at most gene loci, and that any alternative "mutant" allele was found in homozygous form in a small minority of "affected" individuals, often as genetic diseases, and more frequently in heterozygous form in "carriers" for the mutant allele. It is now appreciated that most or all gene loci are highly polymorphic, with multiple alleles, whose frequencies vary from population to population, and that a great deal of genetic variation is hidden in the form of alleles that do not produce obvious phenotypic differences.

 

[Natural high]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that diploids only have 2 allels...

I'll prob get flamed but Wiki seems to disagree.
Maybe the statement made is incomplete.

As I said above, there may be many different versions of a gene at a particular locus, and these are called alleles. However, as a diploid organism has only two of each chromosome (a homologous pair), they can have only two alleles - one for each gene locus.

For example, the gene for human blood types has three possible alleles, but each individual can only have two of the three.

Allele A is dominant over O
Allele B is dominant over O
Allele A and B are codominant
Blood type O is only expressed in the homozygous state as it is recessive to both A and B

I hope this explains it better.

Cheers

.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I am bad at remembering the sources. But I have also read that traits are usually passed on to the next generation in pairs. I know from experience what the long spaghetti stems look like everytime I find a really funky plant from my og mom. Just like clockwork. Everytime I find a hard to clone plant that can barely hold its own branches up it ends up being a really stinky potent og dominated plant.

 

[Betterhaff]

There definitely can be multiple alleles for a given loci. The human blood type is a good example.

To make things even more complicated, multiple loci may come into play in order for a trait to be expressed. A locus might have the appropriate allele for expression but won’t express unless another different locus has the appropriate allele. QTL’s (Quantitative Trait Loci).

 

[resin_lung]

There definitely can be multiple alleles for a given loci. The human blood type is a good example.

To make things even more complicated, multiple loci may come into play in order for a trait to be expressed. A locus might have the appropriate allele for expression but won’t express unless another different locus has the appropriate allele. QTL’s (Quantitative Trait Loci).

Scrambled eggs anyone?

I feel like I figured out checkers to find its really chess I should be playing. I try learning chess but find is really 3D chess that's being played! Hats off to you guys that keep all this shit straight! I got a trail of blood from both ears!!!

Not ready to call it quits but man..... this shit don't come easy to me.

I appreciate the discussion.

 

[Betterhaff]

Ha Ha…scrambled eggs indeed. It can get really complicated and in a lot of these discussions things get very simplified. When you get into heavy duty genetic studies you should see the formulas and equations evaluating probabilities. Head spins.

 

[resin_lung]

Ha Ha…scrambled eggs indeed. It can get really complicated and in a lot of these discussions things get very simplified. When you get into heavy duty genetic studies you should see the formulas and equations evaluating probabilities. Head spins.

I can only kind of imagine!haha

These threads ARE a lot like baby steps. As much as I appreciate them I gotta stop my self from askin if we're there yet.lol

Haha I soon realize that a lot of you guys are already there or at least a hell of a lot closer than I.

Not sure we're even in the same car! Maybe your just comming in over the CB!lol

Thanks to all who put up with me!

I'm just yapping from the jumper seat in the back of the station wagon!haha

 

[mushroombrew]

Well as luck would have it I got Nepali OG F2's on the way!!

It's going to be stinky xmas!

 

[Dankwolf]

My rks project will be back in full swing in less then a month .

My rks project will be back in full swing in less then a month .

Unfortunately i have not had timeto find a good male . so my first step will be a 70s affie ( used as the female ) nocked up by my reversed cotton candy ( collecting pollen now !!!! .

Male search is still on going .choices have been less then steller.

Preme 70s sativa affie:


Preme cotton candy:


Dusted porn pics soon to come lol .

Side note been sampaling some chem strians and can see the potential. My worrie would be the og style domance.

 

[MJPassion]

Unfortunately i have not had timeto find a good male . so my first step will be a 70s affie ( used as the female ) nocked up by my reversed cotton candy ( collecting pollen now !!!! .

Male search is still on going .choices have been less then steller.

Preme 70s sativa affie:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=74627&pictureid=1783890&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Preme cotton candy:
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=74627&pictureid=1783887&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Dusted porn pics soon to come lol .

Side note been sampaling some chem strians and can see the potential. My worrie would be the og style domance.

Maybe consider Chem crossed to a stanky Affie.

 

[resin_lung]

I've been wanting to check out CheeseDog.

 

[bestothebest]

Ill be trying stardawg 4.0 x RSC MIS sometime in the future

 

[mushroombrew]

 

[Lester Beans]

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