Dankwolfs rks breeding project and breeding info discussion

[who dat is]

Skunk 91

 

[who dat is]

Its funny the name(STERLING skunk) implies for me that he has a good idea of what the old school rks was yet the use of chemdawg/chemdogs genetics makes no real sense . could be wrong i have never grown any chem anything .

Sky. Rks threads are a dime a dozen but this thread is here to stay and will continue even if i have to start over to weed out useless comments. Rks is just around the Bend and will be free/no restriction on passing out cuts or seed if i have anything to do with it.

I am not doing this for the cash or recognition. I am doing it for love of it .i will bring it back with or with out help or die trying . i am teired of all the rks bullshit threads on every site/server. So lets call the search for pot#3 instead lol

How you doin' Dankwolf? Any updates?

 

[Dankwolf]

How you doin' Dankwolf? Any updates?

Spent last few weeks cleaning up after my clone only search (tried quite a few only keeped two lol )
. seeds will be going into paper towels by the end of this week . cali-o from 80s to start a search for a male . also considering looking/getting some mazar-i-sharfi , pot of gold ,sensi star ,and still wiating on the rks s1 clone from a freind will be seeing if ones ready again by end of month . last trip to pick up rks s1 ended up being bad timeing .i also cant locate the freind with the mex rad hair so i am going to start a few random bag seeds from about 10 years ago all should be killer (bag seed from local growers that have there own strains that they have been working for years ).hope to find atleast two good males .


I am also running a side by side test useing my cotton candy strian .in a readilly avaible high calcium/silica soiless mix with low bicarbonate s and low k value against a high bicarbionate slow release with high calcium/silica soiless mix low in k aswell . i am assuming to find the slow release to out perfom the the readily aviable mix in the terping/rks department but time will tell .


Lots of interesting studys involving silica and its use by plants and expressions not being able to be expressed due to high k and low silica. I will see if i can find some of the articals/studies and post them up .

 

[Dankwolf]

Skunk 91

View Image

Any smell out of them in veg ?

 

[who dat is]

Any smell out of them in veg ?

They are starting to come into their own, some more so than others. They are still small but have taken off after getting potted up. While I was taking each of them out of their solo cups and putting them in the gallons I made sure to pinch off the withered cotyledons, lower fan leaves, and any small branches coming in down low. Holy shit were there ever some smells coming off of them when I was doing that. They all had a similar chemmy/dead/funky thing going on but one in particular made me want to cough and gag a little when I took a big whiff. Something foul will be coming from these

 

[Dankwolf]

I think it would serve the project well to take a systematic approach.

Pick a phenotypical trait that you recall from the original and work toward that. This will require inbreeding (selfing to the extent that other genetics are as near to wiped out as is possible)

Then or concurrently, work on another phenotypical trait.

The whole point of inbreeding is to eliminate undesirable recessive genetics from the gene pool you are working with.

The natural crosses plan will produce a huge variety of genetic diversity and maybe you hit on the one you want, however the RKS you are looking for sounds very much as if there are very specific traits that must be present in combination. In short, a group of specific genetic combinations makes the RKS phenotype.

You can identify those individual phenotypical aspects you want and strip away all you do not want passed on by inbreeding, then smartly combine the various inbred strains to inch closer to what you feel is phenotypically RKS.

Or

Randomly pick out normal plants that have some inkling of the traits and open pollinate and hope you win the genetic lotto.

Both recessive (are either passed on or not, difficult to identify heterozygous offspring, easy to identify homozygous offspring) and dominant genetics (are either passed on or not, and easily identifiable) can be eliminated by inbreeding, selecting only those genetics you feel are working toward your end goal.

SamS mentions growing out huge numbers as a preferred method, this is true. It can be done on a smaller scale but time becomes an issue. Simply smoking enough samples to do a proper selection is going to take a crap ton of time let alone the grow itself.

It would seem to me, based on what SamS said about attempts at breeding away from RKS, that the RKS phenotype is predominantly recessive genetically, possibly a combination of recessive genetics.

If this is the case, RKS being comprised of recessive genetics, then locating the recessive genetic precursors is or should be priority one.

Leaf to bud ratio may be expressed by any number of genetics, lets say there are just three unique genetics that make the right leaf to bud ratio, you need to preserve each of those three because you don't know for sure if 1, 2, or 3 combines with another genetic to make RKS smell and taste like RKS.

While I can appreciate that growing methods do have an impact on phenotype expression, that can be covered by breeding clones in a variety of methods. Copying the dated methods used to grow RKS would very likely produce the best and truest results.

DRM Ranch

Vary well put . i agree 100%

 

[troutman]

I don't think RKS is a recessive trait at all.

 

[Dankwolf]

First, let me say, the most RKS smelling strain I've grown from modern genetics is the Ohio Deathstar cut - ECSD x Sensi Star.

I've grown tons of ECSD crosses. Both fems and m/f pairings. Even S1's. I've not come across anything RKS in other ECSD pairings. That leaves me with the impression that Sensi Star added that RKS something to the equation.

That being said, and I've been ridiculed for this before - I absolutely believe, 100% that what we feed the plant has a direct impact on the "flavors" produced. I've seen this time and time again in my own soil mixes. I can keep a control specimen in a sealed, controlled environment. In the same room, run the same clone in 3 uniquely different soil mixes. All will perform well and produce what would be considered top tier cannabis. All 4 of the plants (control included) will taste very different. The only thing changed between plants - what amendments were used to provide the plant nutrition.

A grass fed cow taste incredibly different than a cow raised on a strictly corn diet. A wild turkey taste completely different than a farm raised bird. A deer that eats out of the forest and lives on acorns taste completely different than a deer that was raiding a farmers field.

Why do these animals taste different if all nutrition is the same? If all the animal needs is nutritional molecules to fuel it's system, why is there a direct impact on the flavor of the meat?

I think the same thing happens with plants. What you feed absolutely has an impact on how they taste. I used to believe that anecdotally but as I said, I've run side by side tests in a very controlled setting and that only confirmed my experiences as being valid.

To take that one step further - look at large PVP agricultural models. If you are going to grow a PVP crop, you have to agree to a very strict contract. Part of that contract outlines the environmental parameters that must exist in order for the resulting produce to be sold under the recognized trade name. This includes very specific nutrient formulations that must be used. These formulations are brand specific. All this is done to ensure the proper phenotype is produced by a contracted grower and what the consumer receives is exactly the same regardless of regional source.

I've been called a hack for holding this opinion before and yet I still hold it. Even after tons of research and scientific data saying otherwise, I still hold this opinion. I've seen first hand the impact changing amendments makes. I value science. I value personal experience more.

Slowly making my way through this thread.



dank.Frank

Have ypu ran across or noted any paticular soil , soiless and or amendments that helped bring out the rks ?

i have seen bat guanos high in nitrogen bring out a rks profile in strains that did not have it unless used . with the side affect of a spicy almost black pepper taste on the finishing profile and end of a exhale of the flowers.

 

[who dat is]

I don't think RKS is a recessive trait at all.

Then why aren't there stabilized lines of it or a plethora of modern day crosses with it?

 

[troutman]

Then why aren't there stabilized lines of it or a plethora of modern day crosses with it?

I actually think RKS is a dominant trait.

To answer your question:

It was bred out that's why! Skunkman has said it many times and people still don't pay attention.

Here's my take on this RKS Dominance Mystery:

It depends how you look at it. The way most people are trying to find it now is that they are looking for an elusive
recessive trait that has been bred out over 30 years ago. So as you can imagine using any typical recent seed stocks
is going to be almost a colossal waste of time. Yet people still try.

On the other hand, if a person used landraces like Skunkman says he did way back when.
Then you would find that the RKS is most likely dominant trait. Skunkman even said
it took years to breed out the RKS.

Does that sound like a recessive trait to you?

When Skunk #1 was released in 1976 it was all RKS, skunky as hell. But as I worked it for a decade before taking it to Holland it was pretty different by then, even though it looked much the same. The changes were in the smells, taste, and effects as well as potency. The old RKS was much more of a knockdown, couchlock, loaded kind of high. Through selection I sweetened it up and made the high more of an up high rather then a knock down. I will admit that some of the original RKS Skunk#1 were a bit more potent, but I did not like the taste or high.

Taken from here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1863357&postcount=495

 

[who dat is]

I actually think RKS is a dominant trait.

To answer your question:

It was bred out that's why! Skunkman has said it many times and people still don't pay attention.

Here's my take on this RKS Dominance Mystery:

It depends how you look at it. The way most people are trying to find it now is that they are looking for an elusive
recessive trait that has been bred out over 30 years ago. So as you can imagine using any typical recent seed stocks
is going to be almost a colossal waste of time. Yet people still try.

On the other hand, if a person used landraces like Skunkman says he did way back when.
Then you would find that the RKS is most likely dominant trait. Skunkman even said
it took years to breed out the RKS.

Does that sound like a recessive trait to you?



Taken from here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1863357&postcount=495

I understand your argument but I still feel like with its popularity and mythical status that people would have been snatching up landrace genetics and hunting it to that end but still nothing has popped up. I know that there is going to have to be some old school genetics thrown in there to find some nasty smelling stuff. I'll keep working the nasty smelling phenos until I find something I like.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

People always say oh mix up some landraces and bingo youll find rks.

What they forget to look at is you would need specifically the same landraces used in the original

Even if you had 100s of those original seeds it would still take sorting thru tons to find the right ones, then you'd have to breed them so perfectly in a 3 way poly hybrid that you find rks, then you would be back to selecting, breeding and more breeding to lock in traits to be anything that would produce consistent results.

Now let's consider you would need unadulterated landrace genetics from 30+ years in the past.
Do you know how much a population of given species can shift in 30 years, we are talking light years from its starting point. Especially if they are true wild landraces they are shaped by environment. This is true genetic drift.

To make a special breed like a true rks is the equivalent to winning huge lottery, getting struck by lightnling and becoming the king of England all in one day.

It takes a special alignment in the starts to create something like that from nothing.

Now with all that said I am skeptical skunk 1 was ever roadkill skunk.

I feel this has been a myth repeated so much it is now taken as truth.

There is absolutely zero evidence that skunk 1 was rks.

I think breeding to create specific terp is the hardest trait to go after. It's much easier to lock down if you already have a parent with the qualities youre looking for.

As far as I know any specific terp plants were created by chance by nature and only helped along by man

I cannot think of one instance were someone set out to create a specific terp profile and actually succeeded except for many blueberry by DJ short.

If you think about it blueberry is one of the crowning achievements in cannabis breeding, it has color and smell and taste in some cases.

 

[Dropped Cat]

First, let me say, the most RKS smelling strain I've grown from modern genetics is the Ohio Deathstar cut - ECSD x Sensi Star.

I've grown tons of ECSD crosses. Both fems and m/f pairings. Even S1's. I've not come across anything RKS in other ECSD pairings. That leaves me with the impression that Sensi Star added that RKS something to the equation.

I've been dabbling with a cross that includes sensi star and
nycd with some bagseed circa 1979.

Much debate on the origins of both the sensi star and nycd.

The bagseed is from the north east US, found in the fold
of a double LP kept in climate controlled storage for many
years.

I'll say that the rks is elusive, as only the males of the F2
show strong traits, which I will pursue later.

All the females flowered to date have much cherry.
I like it.

I think Res had a thread of the ECSD vs nycd, good stuff.

 

[Dankwolf]

I don't think RKS is a recessive trait at all.

S1's fid not repersent the rks 100% fact. Rks when used in breeding repersnted little to no rks fact .

 

[Dankwolf]

I actually think RKS is a dominant trait.

To answer your question:

It was bred out that's why! Skunkman has said it many times and people still don't pay attention.

Here's my take on this RKS Dominance Mystery:

It depends how you look at it. The way most people are trying to find it now is that they are looking for an elusive
recessive trait that has been bred out over 30 years ago. So as you can imagine using any typical recent seed stocks
is going to be almost a colossal waste of time. Yet people still try.

On the other hand, if a person used landraces like Skunkman says he did way back when.
Then you would find that the RKS is most likely dominant trait. Skunkman even said
it took years to breed out the RKS.

Does that sound like a recessive trait to you?



Taken from here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1863357&postcount=495

Skunk/rks was vary prevalant 10 years ago in my home town and many other in oregon . sam my have breed it out of skunk 1 if its even the origins of the rks i seek . but the rks in the many forms i have seen smoked and pushed was lost due to or not coming thru in cross's and not being there even in a some 100 true rks s1' s.

 

[Dankwolf]

People always say oh mix up some landraces and bingo youll find rks.

What they forget to look at is you would need specifically the same landraces used in the original

Even if you had 100s of those original seeds it would still take sorting thru tons to find the right ones, then you'd have to breed them so perfectly in a 3 way poly hybrid that you find rks, then you would be back to selecting, breeding and more breeding to lock in traits to be anything that would produce consistent results.

Now let's consider you would need unadulterated landrace genetics from 30+ years in the past.
Do you know how much a population of given species can shift in 30 years, we are talking light years from its starting point. Especially if they are true wild landraces they are shaped by environment. This is true genetic drift.

To make a special breed like a true rks is the equivalent to winning huge lottery, getting struck by lightnling and becoming the king of England all in one day.

It takes a special alignment in the starts to create something like that from nothing.

Now with all that said I am skeptical skunk 1 was ever roadkill skunk.

I feel this has been a myth repeated so much it is now taken as truth.

There is absolutely zero evidence that skunk 1 was rks.

I think breeding to create specific terp is the hardest trait to go after. It's much easier to lock down if you already have a parent with the qualities youre looking for.

As far as I know any specific terp plants were created by chance by nature and only helped along by man

I cannot think of one instance were someone set out to create a specific terp profile and actually succeeded except for many blueberry by DJ short.

If you think about it blueberry is one of the crowning achievements in cannabis breeding, it has color and smell and taste in some cases.

Could not agree more . i dont belive or atleast have seen no prof that skunk 1 has anything to do with rks. Skunk 1 new or old looks in no way like the rks iseek One thing that may be correct as far as the fary tell rks storys is the Afghan that sam speaks of. I belive rks is was a 3 way cross of northern lights , mazar-i-Sharif (or simaler Afghan) and hindu kush ( or simaler kush) . could be wroung this is just my guess .

Dj is an example of a true breeder.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

I have read several reports of shiva skunk (Skunk x NL) being the rks. Check out grow reports of this strain, many say true skunk stink.

 

[Dankwolf]

I've been dabbling with a cross that includes sensi star and
nycd with some bagseed circa 1979.

Much debate on the origins of both the sensi star and nycd.

The bagseed is from the north east US, found in the fold
of a double LP kept in climate controlled storage for many
years.

I'll say that the rks is elusive, as only the males of the F2
show strong traits, which I will pursue later.

All the females flowered to date have much cherry.
I like it.

I think Res had a thread of the ECSD vs nycd, good stuff.

I have heard sensi star has some killer rks phenos.i could see a nycd x sensi star x old genetics kicking out some rks profiles . keep us updated ?

 

[Tynehead Tom]

the skunk weed that smelled like skunk came from BC , that skunk smelled like freshly walked on skunk cabbage and was called BC Skunk.
It may have had zero to do with the original skunkman.... or someone from BC bought original seeds way back when and found the BC skunk pheno.
That's the one i remember and it was Never Ever called road kill. From grade 6 to grade 12, most of my best freinds were stoners and became the gram bag peddlers of our high school years. We had red hair, elephant, green bud and BC skunk back then, otherwise hash was much more prevalent in those days.

I'm not pretending to know fuck all, just relating on what i remember from the 80's when Skunk was popular here. It is a fact that it was phased out in local cash cropper rooms in favor of the less reeking Northern Lights.... so I doubt Skunk is a cross of NL and ?
but what do I know...... ?

as an aside, I have a female Black Tuna x Shiskaberry that reeks in veg and is filling my room with a deep skunky funk.... but it isn't "rks"

 

[GoatCheese]

I have read several reports of shiva skunk (Skunk x NL) being the rks. Check out grow reports of this strain, many say true skunk stink.

MrNice's NL5 x Skunk#1 is made with Nevil's old seed stock
..so it should be from the same original P1 plants as Sensi Seeds' Shiva Skunk. Which generation? i don't know.
I have a pack but haven't grown any yet, nor have i read any grow reports.