Danger of Al+++ Solubility Aluminum Silicate Clays (Azomite, Bentonite,...)

[G.O. Joe]

Many volcanic soils are not good to farm in. Costa Rica for one. Some of the most aluminum toxic soils on the planet.

And does this aluminum toxicity go away after liming to an appropriate pH? The volcanoes and acid soils of Costa Rica have not much in common with azomite, an alkaline aluminosilicate marine sediment of partial, 30 million year old volcanic origin. Costa Rica does not indicate that soils free of volcanic influence or azomite are anywhere near free of aluminum. Nor does it mean that volcanic soils elsewhere are poor: https://volcanology.geol.ucsb.edu/soil.htm

Costa Rica does not mean that aluminum toxicity to plants in soil acid enough to make aluminum soluble has anything to do with azomite or its use - in fact, applications of up to 600 lbs/acre has been shown to increase rather than decrease yields. This is according to their site, but even if the people are getting free azomite in return, it doesn't mean that they are falsifying the results.

The fact that some plants which grow in particularly acid soil absorb aluminum in some part of the plant does not mean other plants growing elsewhere in something other than sand, water, air, or coir have leaves, fruits, or flowers full of aluminum. It also does not mean that the result of growing something in soil with a pH of 4-5 can be liberally compared to soils of higher pH.

 

[Eleutherios]

Many volcanic soils are not good to farm in. Costa Rica for one. Some of the most aluminum toxic soils on the planet. As for azomite, wish you luck. With Aluminum coming at 11% + Aluminum, yeah, let's add that.

You are conceptualizing this as an aluminum salt that is dissolved into solution. Aside from various organic compounds, such as the carboxylic acid root secretions already mentioned and ionic competition, etc for actual uptake, what is being ignored is that these clay minerals are part of large molecular units and treating them like they are simple salts, such as the aluminum sulfate, that people use to make their hydrangeas pink, makes about as much sense as treating said clay, once cast and fired into a cup, in the same regards as you would an aluminum one. They just aren't the same thing.

From the Wikipedia article on soil chemistry:
Clay chemistry is an applied subdiscipline of chemistry which studies the chemical structures, properties and reactions of or involving clays and clay minerals. It is a multidisciplinary field, involving concepts and knowledge from inorganic and structural chemistry, physical chemistry, materials chemistry, analytical chemistry, organic chemistry, mineralogy, geology and others.

My only point is that we are talking about a complex system within a complex system (the soil itself)

 

[h.h.]

Aluminum in tobacco and marijuana.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002934305007102

Question is how much we really influence uptake before the roots start shutting down.
It’s the plant that decides the range of accumulation, not the soil. It’s not going to vary much regardless of our input.

 

[G.O. Joe]

The aluminum content of tobacco and cannabis was confirmed to be high, as much as 0.37% and 0.4% by weight respectively. 4000 ppm? Sounds unlikely. Let me waste an hour of my time here. OK. It should be noted that the primary author of that is in the aluminum-hysteria (it's the aluminum, not mercury, in vaccines that causes autism) and silica-water remedy (silicawaters.com) business. The actual article (table 1) says for cannabis and cannabinoid extract 0.1-.0.4 mg/g. This is 0.01-0.04%, 10-40x less than what the abstract says. A different article confirms the aluminum content of tobacco not from Bangladesh. Which is, according to the first article, ten times greater than cannabis.

 

[paradoxlost]

Many volcanic soils are not good to farm in. Costa Rica for one. Some of the most aluminum toxic soils on the planet. As for azomite, wish you luck. With Aluminum coming at 11% + Aluminum, yeah, let's add that.

But that is kind of misleading. Most volcanic soils are some of the most productive, in both quantity and quality, in the entire world. Aka the soils of Northern California and Humbolt County, to the Kula soil series of Maui and Hawaii.



Andisols tend to be better farming soils than molisols, just not as wide spread.

 

[slownickel]

You are conceptualizing this as an aluminum salt that is dissolved into solution. Aside from various organic compounds, such as the carboxylic acid root secretions already mentioned and ionic competition, etc for actual uptake, what is being ignored is that these clay minerals are part of large molecular units and treating them like they are simple salts, such as the aluminum sulfate, that people use to make their hydrangeas pink, makes about as much sense as treating said clay, once cast and fired into a cup, in the same regards as you would an aluminum one. They just aren't the same thing.

From the Wikipedia article on soil chemistry:
Clay chemistry is an applied subdiscipline of chemistry which studies the chemical structures, properties and reactions of or involving clays and clay minerals. It is a multidisciplinary field, involving concepts and knowledge from inorganic and structural chemistry, physical chemistry, materials chemistry, analytical chemistry, organic chemistry, mineralogy, geology and others.

My only point is that we are talking about a complex system within a complex system (the soil itself)

Not at all! In fact it is the dynamics of root exudates at a pH of 4 or so plus the amazing ability of biology to break down minerals.

I have seen the result on farms of azomite, zeolite, rock dust, etc.. applications. I make folks do potted tests so they can see results when I visit and find the wide spread use. Folks always stop when they see with and without tests especially when they begin to use Calcium(s) and balance their soil correctly, one element at a time.

 

[slownickel]

The aluminum content of tobacco and cannabis was confirmed to be high, as much as 0.37% and 0.4% by weight respectively. 4000 ppm? Sounds unlikely. Let me waste an hour of my time here. OK. It should be noted that the primary author of that is in the aluminum-hysteria (it's the aluminum, not mercury, in vaccines that causes autism) and silica-water remedy (silicawaters.com) business. The actual article (table 1) says for cannabis and cannabinoid extract 0.1-.0.4 mg/g. This is 0.01-0.04%, 10-40x less than what the abstract says. A different article confirms the aluminum content of tobacco not from Bangladesh. Which is, according to the first article, ten times greater than cannabis.

Having fun yet?

 

[h.h.]

The aluminum content of tobacco and cannabis was confirmed to be high, as much as 0.37% and 0.4% by weight respectively. 4000 ppm? Sounds unlikely. Let me waste an hour of my time here. OK. It should be noted that the primary author of that is in the aluminum-hysteria (it's the aluminum, not mercury, in vaccines that causes autism) and silica-water remedy (silicawaters.com) business. The actual article (table 1) says for cannabis and cannabinoid extract 0.1-.0.4 mg/g. This is 0.01-0.04%, 10-40x less than what the abstract says. A different article confirms the aluminum content of tobacco not from Bangladesh. Which is, according to the first article, ten times greater than cannabis.

No long term effects are being reported. I don’t see any hysteria. A few claims of dementia from aluminum yet not cannabis per say.
My main interest would be in harshness of smoke. None of it plays out in reality.
Certainly all the outdoor Mexican weed heavily consumed in the past would have taken its tow.
The plant is only going to absorb x amount of Al regardless of soil. The roots won’t take it. Much ado over very, very little.

 

[G.O. Joe]

I don’t see any hysteria.

If Exley doesn't peddle aluminum hysteria, then I don't know who does, and if this isn't aluminum hysteria, then I don't know what is.

https://doi.org/10.3389/fneur.2014.00212
https://doi.org/10.1016/0014-5793(93)80137-J
https://doi.org/10.1016/s1357-4310(98)01209-x
https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1369-1600.2007.00055.x
https://doi.org/10.1186/1752-1947-8-41
https://doi.org/10.3233/ADR-170010
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.amjmed.2004.11.003
https://doi.org/10.1093/ageing/22.5.391-a
https://doi.org/10.1007/s00775-019-01710-0
https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(06)70421-2
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.morpho.2015.12.003
https://doi.org/10.5694/j.1326-5377.1996.tb94168.x
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2013.05.002
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2016.12.001
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2019.09.010
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2001-3605
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2006-102-305
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2007-12403
https://doi.org/10.3233/JAD-191140
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2007.06.005
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2013.07.005
https://doi.org/10.1586/14737175.2014.915745
https://doi.org/10.1016/s0162-0134(99)00125-7
https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(04)01039-4
https://doi.org/10.1007/0-387-23226-5_11
https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/77/7/877.long
https://doi.org/10.1177/1352458506071323
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.06.005
https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2431-10-63
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.reprotox.2014.10.001
https://doi.org/10.1038/srep31578
https://doi.org/10.1111/nan.12417
https://doi.org/10.3390/ijerph15081777
https://doi.org/10.3390/ijerph16050899

Bees too: The significant contamination of bumblebee pupae by aluminium raises the intriguing spectre of cognitive dysfunction playing a role in their population decline.
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0127665

 

[slownickel]

Here is an example of aluminate (AlOH4) being toxic in alkaline soils with the specific conditions of bicarbonates being present.

 

[slownickel]

If Exley doesn't peddle aluminum hysteria, then I don't know who does, and if this isn't aluminum hysteria, then I don't know what is.

https://doi.org/10.3389/fneur.2014.00212
https://doi.org/10.1016/0014-5793(93)80137-J
https://doi.org/10.1016/s1357-4310(98)01209-x
https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1369-1600.2007.00055.x
https://doi.org/10.1186/1752-1947-8-41
https://doi.org/10.3233/ADR-170010
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.amjmed.2004.11.003
https://doi.org/10.1093/ageing/22.5.391-a
https://doi.org/10.1007/s00775-019-01710-0
https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(06)70421-2
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.morpho.2015.12.003
https://doi.org/10.5694/j.1326-5377.1996.tb94168.x
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2013.05.002
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2016.12.001
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jtemb.2019.09.010
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2001-3605
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2006-102-305
https://doi.org/10.3233/jad-2007-12403
https://doi.org/10.3233/JAD-191140
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2007.06.005
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2013.07.005
https://doi.org/10.1586/14737175.2014.915745
https://doi.org/10.1016/s0162-0134(99)00125-7
https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(04)01039-4
https://doi.org/10.1007/0-387-23226-5_11
https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/77/7/877.long
https://doi.org/10.1177/1352458506071323
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ebiom.2017.06.005
https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2431-10-63
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.reprotox.2014.10.001
https://doi.org/10.1038/srep31578
https://doi.org/10.1111/nan.12417
https://doi.org/10.3390/ijerph15081777
https://doi.org/10.3390/ijerph16050899

Bees too: The significant contamination of bumblebee pupae by aluminum raises the intriguing spectre of cognitive dysfunction playing a role in their population decline.
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0127665

The guy devotes his life to demonstrating how fucking toxic aluminum is and shows the science and you call it hysteria? Did you bother to read any of these posts? The silica one to cleanse Al build up, brilliant! The vaccine article was way ahead of its' time.

If we look up in a materia medica of homeopathy, we will see that the mental symptoms of aluminum toxicity are apathy, forgetfulness, not wanting to take on responsibility or take on responsibilities.... mmmmmm

 

[h.h.]

I’ve devoted my life to testing for dementia and Alzheimer’s by smoking tons of aluminum contaminated weed.

Watching Woodstock, I learned to fashion a pipe using foil around a Bic pen. I’ve since abandoned that practice as well as the Coke can method. Apples work much better anyway.

Still no conclusion on the testing.

 

[slownickel]

I’ve devoted my life to testing for dementia and Alzheimer’s by smoking tons of aluminum contaminated weed.

Watching Woodstock, I learned to fashion a pipe using foil around a Bic pen. I’ve since abandoned that practice as well as the Coke can method. Apples work much better anyway.

Still no conclusion on the testing.

Can I have a copy of your autopsy that checks for the whether or not those aluminum bundles were present? Be a great post!

 

[thailer]

Here is an example of aluminate (AlOH4) being toxic in alkaline soils with the specific conditions of bicarbonates being present.

does anyone have a link to this article? i tried to look and it is just abstracts. i was hoping someone who has access to the journal would have a PDF or something? thanks!

 

[thailer]

nm i found someone who got me a link. https://twin.sci-hub.se/6204/8c424d08c839ac60f3277c2e7f5a762b/ma2003.pdf

 

[G.O. Joe]

If your pH is above 9 you have bigger problems than soluble Al and the toxicity that comes with that.

The guy devotes his life to demonstrating how fucking toxic aluminum is and shows the science and you call it hysteria? Did you bother to read any of these posts? The silica one to cleanse Al build up, brilliant! The vaccine article was way ahead of its' time.

If we look up in a materia medica of homeopathy, we will see that the mental symptoms of aluminum toxicity are apathy, forgetfulness, not wanting to take on responsibility or take on responsibilities.... mmmmmm

It's obvious that Exley made an early decision to make Al hysteria his career. Exley might be on the editorial boards of most of those journals, which however says more about the current state of science publishing than it does Exley. So those people who made $100,000 a year for 25 years as a professional anti-cannabis crusader - whether through publishing or as a local or national personality - that's fine too yes? Not to mention the hundreds who've made millions as part of the military-industrial propagandist pseudo-conservative conspiracy-spouting machine.

Show me what the world not so easily influenced by Exley says. Show me the research showing that exposing bees to Al factually increases bee problems, something that says vaccines with no Al makes autism rates decline, that antiperspirants increase breask cancer risk, tea raises Alzheimers risk. Exley says there is elevated Al in smokers and smoking is directly linked to Alzheimers - while others say there isn't and it isn't.

It's true, Exley isn't alone:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/mo...w-theres-a-new-antivaccine-scientist-in-town/

a high-ranking member of the Aluminati!
https://forbetterscience.com/2017/09/29/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-antivax-paper-by-smut-clyde/
Tracing Chris Exley’s ''Aluminati'' contributions to the J.Inorg.Biochem would require a lengthy footnote, or perhaps an article in itself. The Keele Meetings on Aluminium are a yearly event, so every November there is a Special Keele Issue in J.Inorg.Biochem, presenting the latest conclusion-driven findings of aluminium toxicity. For instance, Exley is the ultimate source of the idea that aluminium in antiperspirants is the main cause of breast cancer:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17629949

However, the world’s refusal to pay attention to his warnings has convinced Exley that there must be a conspiracy to suppress them. So behold the ''4th International Symposium on Vaccines'' — a CMSRI scamboree intended for the task of turning Dwoskin Foundation money into junkscience — where Exley and Tomljenovic chaired a panel discussion on the topic ''Why do you think that the authorities are trying to hide the truth?''

 

[Microbeman]

I’ve devoted my life to testing for dementia and Alzheimer’s by smoking tons of aluminum contaminated weed.

Watching Woodstock, I learned to fashion a pipe using foil around a Bic pen. I’ve since abandoned that practice as well as the Coke can method. Apples work much better anyway.

Still no conclusion on the testing.

Thank you doctor and have you become hysterical? You are hysterically funny as is this thread.

BTW the greatest ploy maneuvered by the medical association and CDC when they supposedly debunked critical studies of vaccinations was to make mercury [and other metals (aluminum?)] the contentious issue. In doing so they obfuscated the true issue which is timing and combining of vaccination administration and the resultant effects on the blood-brain barrier. Neat poker trick.

 

[slownickel]

Recent results from a very large grape farm that pushed the soil anaerobic with magnesium, lowering the pH of the irrigation water to 6 with acid and lots of undigested bicarbonates in the soil and lots in the water. What we can call the perfect storm to get aluminum toxicity.

See it more than folks can imagine here in Peru due to alkaline soils, folks acidifying and water with issues.