Curious on how many switched back

[Miraculous Meds]

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[Maj.Cottonmouth]

This thread is like an argument about which is better, a car or a truck. Well for fucks sake it depends on your situation now doesn't it? Go take a look at Marlo's threads, in his room would any of you recommend he go back to horizontal?

I went vert on my 5th grow, all of my grows (great and horrific, my first grow is on IC!) are linked in my sig.

I went to vert for a lot of reasons but the promise of better yields was a big motivator and I feel it paid off in my situation. The biggest difference is in the lack of low plant larf I had in my horizontal grows and I hate trimming that shit. It is always the when do I trim to hash bucket/keep tray hassle. My last trim I did not trim any buds into the hash bucket until I was on the last plant and in a fuck it hurry.

One thing that seems to keep getting glossed over in this thread is plant numbers. I am not an outlaw, I stay within my legal count so throwing 80 plants on some trays is not an option I would even consider. My hat is off to those who can live that life and I have smoked many a gram of your weed over the years but I don't sleep well as it is, the shit I do right keeps me up at night.

I have stayed vert for the same reason I have stayed with blumats and MaxiBloom, they are easy and they work. I will not be setting any yield numbers but I grow kick ass pot that I enjoy smoking. And honestly if yield numbers were my only goal I am sure I could kick it through the uprights but I want to grow weed I want to smoke. I have done a one pound plant and I still have some seeds of it but it is not one I consider when I am going through my seed box.

I do some things wrong even by conventional vert grow standards, and honestly I am a lazy grower. I no longer have fans under my bulbs, in fact I have no fans in my room, just the extraction fan. I spend about 15 minutes per night caring for my plants. I work 50-60 hours per week now so gardening does not get the attention it once did but I am still able to produce quality and at the end of the day that is what matters.

Peace, love and a fat bowl my brothers no matter what direction you grow in.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

So is it the car or the truck, I got lost there?

 

[papaduc]

This thread is like an argument about which is better, a car or a truck. Well for fucks sake it depends on your situation now doesn't it? Go take a look at Marlo's threads, in his room would any of you recommend he go back to horizontal?

I went vert on my 5th grow, all of my grows (great and horrific, my first grow is on IC!) are linked in my sig.

I went to vert for a lot of reasons but the promise of better yields was a big motivator and I feel it paid off in my situation. The biggest difference is in the lack of low plant larf I had in my horizontal grows and I hate trimming that shit. It is always the when do I trim to hash bucket/keep tray hassle. My last trim I did not trim any buds into the hash bucket until I was on the last plant and in a fuck it hurry.

One thing that seems to keep getting glossed over in this thread is plant numbers. I am not an outlaw, I stay within my legal count so throwing 80 plants on some trays is not an option I would even consider. My hat is off to those who can live that life and I have smoked many a gram of your weed over the years but I don't sleep well as it is, the shit I do right keeps me up at night.

I have stayed vert for the same reason I have stayed with blumats and MaxiBloom, they are easy and they work. I will not be setting any yield numbers but I grow kick ass pot that I enjoy smoking. And honestly if yield numbers were my only goal I am sure I could kick it through the uprights but I want to grow weed I want to smoke. I have done a one pound plant and I still have some seeds of it but it is not one I consider when I am going through my seed box.

I do some things wrong even by conventional vert grow standards, and honestly I am a lazy grower. I no longer have fans under my bulbs, in fact I have no fans in my room, just the extraction fan. I spend about 15 minutes per night caring for my plants. I work 50-60 hours per week now so gardening does not get the attention it once did but I am still able to produce quality and at the end of the day that is what matters.

Peace, love and a fat bowl my brothers no matter what direction you grow in.

This just puts in perspective how differently we all approach things so differently and how one man's sugar is the next man's shite. Every single reason you cited for growing vertical, is the very reason I could give for growing horizontal, depending on the situation.

I don't see the argument so much as a case of discussing which way's better, because for whatever reason, strain.. circumstance.. environment.. whatever.. either system might be easier for you to maintain, or get results from. It might just suit your style better, your personality or approach to growing... could be a hundred reasons..

But... a lot of people aren't going into it because it suits them more... it's a better fit for their space, they enjoy it more, or because they've got the knowledge, skills, or the inclination to get the most out of it.... they're doing it singularly because they believe it will automatically = bigger yields. That, for me, is what anyone looking to grow vertically should know is wrong, for so many reasons.

Do it because you like it... it's easier for ya.. it fits your room better... looks prettier... but know that the idea it will, when all things are factored in = bigger yields overall, is not true.

To take your two truck analogy, if this was a race between two cars, and one of those cars had an engine it's mechanics said the other "couldn't compete with" and we were watching the other car not only keep up with it, but on some courses comfortably beat it, we'd have to conclude that when you break it down mechanically, there's more to how a car performs than the potential raw power of the engine... not least the driver behind the wheel.

That's the premise; that flat "can't compete" with vertical. I know that based on the numbers, that's not true.

Be cool

 

[papaduc]

I do 2 plants per light and hit 3/4 to a p per 600.

I thought you did 1.5gpw?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

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[papaduc]

But a 3/4lb per 600 is only 0.5gpw, and to veg 2 plants to get that must take a while, so when you factor that in it takes it even lower and you end up with some really low numbers.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

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[DrFever]

3/4 is 336g x 2 plants=672g/600w=.89gpw

that's the small estimate

1p is 448g x 2 plants=896g/600w=1.49gpw

I see I wrote per light when I meant 3/4 to a p per plant. 2 plants per light. My bad, sorry for the confusion.

And yes veg time does come into play if ur calculating efficiency but as I discussed this before, My concerns are with legal issues of mandatory mins, so for me the amount of electricity I use becomes my limiting factor as well as less plants. Since the end product has such a high value, I don't worry about calculating the front end cause it ends up being pennys to the dollars that the product is worth being done. Otherwise from yield efficiency the sog always wins.

just to let you know a pound = 454

And for the Person talking about the Car Vs truck All you here is verts benifits to have 135 percent more space ??? and is it not also mentioned some where that this is why vertical wil out yield horizontal????? cause you can place more plants in that same given area ??
Yet with some jedi vert growers there not hitting GPW and not with just few grows under there belt a shit load So in reality its misleading information or should i say very bias cause you can place more plants in that given area ??? and yet Facts are Facts Journals are journals and yields are Yields
Owe and you here the same stuff all the time bad grow root aphids . root rot , mites ?? Remember horizontal growers are going through the same thing Yet allot more horizontal growers are hitting there GPW and more
Now if growing vert suits your style great but please do not think for one moment that comparing the 2 styles that Vertical wins in all aspects cause in reality like
DHF would say proof is in the pudding and proof is telling me other wise like i said just go look in threads right from the beginning and not just here RUI , GRASS you might find it shocking as for comparing yields

 

[papaduc]

3/4 is 336g x 2 plants=672g/600w=.89gpw

that's the small estimate

1p is 448g x 2 plants=896g/600w=1.49gpw

672g per 600 is 1.1 gpw brother

But I really would like to see the veg times and the hours you put into training your plants to get that amount. Without doubt it has to factor into the overall picture and when you do that, the yield argument is null and void.

If you're talking from a perspective of legal repercussions, fair enough. I'm talking solely about yield. You've got to concede that doing things that way changes the gpw ratio regardless of your end yield. If there's one or two weeks in it, pshhh, who gives a shit about calculating things exactly, but when you're vegging plants to do a lb each, then you factor that into your grows per month and your yield still comes out at about 0.5gpw even with that kind of pull.

And yes veg time does come into play if ur calculating efficiency but as I discussed this before, My concerns are with legal issues of mandatory mins, so for me the amount of electricity I use becomes my limiting factor as well as less plants. Since the end product has such a high value, I don't worry about calculating the front end cause it ends up being pennys to the dollars that the product is worth being done. Otherwise from yield efficiency the sog always wins.

SOG is a lot of plants. There's no reason a horizontal grow has to be that. 4-8 plants can do your gpw with hardly any training at all, depending on how much veg time you want to put in etc. In my experience the training takes much more time and dedication for vertical unless I get a nice strain for it.

I think that's the key deciding factor really. I've got a few lanky sour kush on the go now and they're better suited to vertical which have a bulb hanging between them, and some more squat ones under a hood which are more suited to that method. I think that's something that's not taken into consideration when people grow vert, that some strains are just a load of hassle and would be better left to bush out and make a nice big canopy, training those type of plants to a vertical is a waste of hours and effort in my experience. Likewise, it'd be easier to put the bulb in between others than it would pinch them as many times as you'd need to to keep them manageable in a given height.

All these things prove beyond doubt for me that both ways have their pros and cons big time and when it comes to yield, there are many more factors involved than whether you grow vert or flat. It's definitely not the case that vert yields more regardless of all the variables.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

just to let you know a pound = 454

yep ur right thanks, I corrected it, and the gpw on the small estimate.

And for the Person talking about the Car Vs truck All you here is verts benifits to have 135 percent more space ??? and is it not also mentioned some where that this is why vertical wil out yield horizontal????? cause you can place more plants in that same given area ??

More canopy is a better answer here, idk if its that much %, just know I can get more canopy closer to the light and that increased yields upwards of 20-30% for me.

Yet with some jedi vert growers there not hitting GPW and not with just few grows under there belt a shit load So in reality its misleading information or should i say very bias cause you can place more plants in that given area ??? and yet Facts are Facts Journals are journals and yields are Yields

Bias, individual. results may very. ever here that one. lol Again, u do not have to place more plants u can just grow them bigger. these are the journals that u have looked at, we cant speak to them cause u didn't tell us which ones, and it is somewhat pointless anyway. This proves nothing, could be the ones that got it down don't have to sit here and prove it to u.

allot more horizontal growers are hitting there GPW and more

Since a lot more growers are growing horizontal there should be a lot more hitting gpw. That's like saying the college with a enrollment of 100,000 has a lot more star athletes than a college with a enrollment of 10,000....

DHF would say proof is in the pudding

True u nailed it here! Everything else eh....

 

[Miraculous Meds]

672g per 600 is 1.1 gpw brother

But I really would like to see the veg times and the hours you put into training your plants to get that amount. Without doubt it has to factor into the overall picture and when you do that, the yield argument is null and void.

If you're talking from a perspective of legal repercussions, fair enough. I'm talking solely about yield. You've got to concede that doing things that way changes the gpw ratio regardless of your end yield. If there's one or two weeks in it, pshhh, who gives a shit about calculating things exactly, but when you're vegging plants to do a lb each, then you factor that into your grows per month and your yield still comes out at about 0.5gpw even with that kind of pull.



SOG is a lot of plants. There's no reason a horizontal grow has to be that. 4-8 plants can do your gpw with hardly any training at all, depending on how much veg time you want to put in etc. In my experience the training takes much more time and dedication for vertical unless I get a nice strain for it.

I think that's the key deciding factor really. I've got a few lanky sour kush on the go now and they're better suited to vertical which have a bulb hanging between them, and some more squat ones under a hood which are more suited to that method. I think that's something that's not taken into consideration when people grow vert, that some strains are just a load of hassle and would be better left to bush out and make a nice big canopy, training those type of plants to a vertical is a waste of hours and effort in my experience. Likewise, it'd be easier to put the bulb in between others than it would pinch them as many times as you'd need to to keep them manageable in a given height.

All these things prove beyond doubt for me that both ways have their pros and cons big time and when it comes to yield, there are many more factors involved than whether you grow vert or flat. It's definitely not the case that vert yields more regardless of all the variables.

Ive already answered this but one more time, I could do more plants with less veg and yield the same. but u already know why, So I chose to veg while flowering so I don't have any downtime in the flower room, its pennys compared to what the product is worth.

U wanna do more plants and be more efficient with ur veg wattage im not hating on u bro do ur thing, just don't devalue what ive shown, to manipulate it to ur way of thinking. Ive said it before I can do more plants less veg too. I choose not to.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Im curious Dr fever, what gpw did u hit vert, and how much did u increase by going back to horizontal?

Dr fever curious minds want to know?

 

[papaduc]

U wanna do more plants and be more efficient with ur veg wattage im not hating on u bro do ur thing, just don't devalue what ive shown, to manipulate it to ur way of thinking. Ive said it before I can do more plants less veg too. I choose not to.

I'm not trying to devalue what you're saying or manipulate your point. At all. I get why ou do what you do, but my point from the very beginning has been that vert does not out yield horizontal when you look around the various vertical grows, or in my own space. It can, but the same can be said in reverse. I could have a strain which I know vert would get a better easier yield out of and I could have another better suited to horizontal.

One question, you said you have a separate veg and flower room. Do you use those rooms specifically for just veg and flower? I mean is the veg room a dedicated veg room and the flower room a dedicated flower one?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

One question, you said you have a separate veg and flower room. Do you use those rooms specifically for just veg and flower? I mean is the veg room a dedicated veg room and the flower room a dedicated flower one?

Yes, it usually takes 25%ish veg to run whatever flower ur doing, and keep it running perpetual to get 5 to 6 harveys per year strain depending.

 

[papaduc]

So do you carry the trained plant and it's screen into the flower room? For 16oz plants that's got to be some work, no?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

So do you carry the trained plant and it's screen into the flower room? For 16oz plants that's got to be some work, no?

No, I veg with out a screen then when flipped I carry it in. they stretch and fill in during the stretch. Its not bad, even with a bad back, cause there is only 4 per each double stack.

I veg horiz as well. See I do use flat grows.... lol

 

[Miraculous Meds]

So do you carry the trained plant and it's screen into the flower room? For 16oz plants that's got to be some work, no?

Its work choppin them down lol. I went thru acouple nice fiskars and better brands. Moved on to a reciprocating saw.

 

[papaduc]

No, I veg with out a screen then when flipped I carry it in. they stretch and fill in during the stretch. Its not bad, even with a bad back, cause there is only 4 per each double stack.

I veg horiz as well. See I do use flat grows.... lol

Hey, if you've got a strain that's working like clockwork in that way for you, fair play. But a lot of strains would fuck you hard trying to pull numbers like that of them with those vegging methods though, you've got to agree on that. 25% then flipped and giving 1.5gpw tells me you've got the perfect strain for vert... anything else and you'd be finding vegging times really long and moving between rooms really hard. Whatever works for you though bro. You should definitely get a camera though man and share your work dude.

Gimme a shout when you do though mate. It's always good to see other people's tricks.

I'm off to bed now, so take care

 

[Miraculous Meds]

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