Crossing a IBL with a Landrace?

[Guest423]

well i crossed the kodiak gold with a skunk special....my plan was to get the kodiak gold quality but having bigger yields from the skunk special mom.

i'm hoping to get a lavender pheno from the kodiak x kodiak beans i made and keeping some cuttings around if it's a girl and keeping pollen if it's a male then crossing it with the pure....especially the larger sometimes purplish indica pheno if i get lucky enough!

p.s.....i call it thunderskunk

 

[afropips]

Hiya Curious,
Landrace Varieties are Heirloom Varieties that also breed true.

Malawi Gold is a good example & other Landrace Varieties found at the cross roads of old trading routes were originally hybrids that have been outbred over numerous generations.

Feral Hemp/Cannabis & Landrace varieties are 2 different things!

Cool Runnings.........

 

[mace_ecam]

afaik, IBL and landrace are quite the opposite, so, IBL x LR is not a true F1, two IBL's are nessecary to create a F1 generation.

 

[TAG-monk]

OK first , nice to see you beancounter, i've completly forgeted about you for a moment....seriously i am heavily dumb sometime. Check your PM's

Now, i just dont know where this myth came from. Trait that dominate have little to do with all those thing. I can swore it dont works like this. Gotta ask OGbub, i suppose.

CF - Seriously...and i talk in alll honesty,...i just dont think you have to stabilise it to cross it with the deepchunk. Another thing is...landrace (or at least the potent one that we call landrace) dont really grow "wild" anymore. We are not in the 70's. The DEA has done their job, and most of the "landrace" we know now is at least a few generation inbreded by a local farmer. I dont say wild weed is not to be found,...but like afropips, its all bred by someone , somewhere. Anyway, if youre really ready to have fun with your landraces and stabilise them, then gor for it, gonna be a fun adventure.And any IBL that are made from an orginal landrace and that are not hybridised are a landrace, by definition. The most common we may buy easily are Hindu Kush, Durban Poison, Malawi gold, thai(....at least T.F.D thai when they re-release it), burmese and so on. I dont want to say anything against deepchunk, but for your project kodiak gold seems more appropriate....but its your choice.

Hybrid are named with the mother first because its the one that got pollinated. Mother really dont give more then the father, unless there is a trait that dominate. Once again, ask OGbub or reeferman here, they can confirm any of this easily.

Zamalito - " I have yet to use an african landrace female and breed a strain that was even as manageable heightwise as a haze in the f1" Hum, can you talk a bit more about this?

BTW IBL x LR = F1. Hell, even a F1 x F1 cross can be considered F1 if its 2 completly different genepool.

IBL = In Bred Line. like zamalito said, the IBL use is extremly vague. But most people use it for an INBRED LINE, that is enough stable to breed true and be crossed well, so f4 at least.(but it may take lotta more then 4 generation...its complex)

Time2Unite- Well, if you grow a lot of them, it is possible but not sure.

 

[mace_ecam]

BTW IBL x LR = F1. Hell, even a F1 x F1 cross can be considered F1 if its too completly different genepool.

I strongly disagree on this one, F1 x F1 is a unstabilized polyhybrid, nothing more.

 

[TAG-monk]

I agree, i dont say its good, i just say that technically, a f1 is a f1 when its two different genepool crossed together. Anyway, how many seedbank make F1 x IBL or even worst hybrid and call that an F1?

 

[mace_ecam]

The important part about the F1's is that the parents are inbreed and unrelated
Hybrid vigour vs. incest depression, thats what makes a good F1 (expensive).

A real F1 offspring should have about 80% the same (vigouros) phenotypes and 20% not so great phenos, in an IBL, almost every plant should be the same pheno (like with Skunk).
You'll have a fairly good idea of what you'll get with those with unstabilized (poly)hybrids, every plant could be very different in shape, potency, flowering time, growth pattern, yield,....

Anyway, how many seedbank make F1 x IBL or even worst hybrid and call that an F1?

Thats the problem with the cannabis seed business, they're gonna tell you anything to make you pay more money. IBL, F1, etc... how many breeders do you know that have breed down to F4 or F5 to be able to call them IBL?
How much would you pay if they told you thats its basically just a cross from the hard work of other real breeders or even just a cross between two good clones?
There is more to being a breeder than pollinating female plants with male pollen.

Why do i need to pay $200 for 10-15 beans of a cross from a "seedster"?

Greed is the answer, nothing else.

peace,

mace

 

[TAG-monk]

I know, but i must precise that as long as its different genepool, heterosis gonna happen.
That was one of the main reason why the Original Haze polyhybrid of the 70's was so sucessfull. For example, lets take a colombian x thai F1 and cross it with a south indian x mexican F1. Of course with the current seed market this would be a hack, but if grown 1000+ you could find some wonderfull ultra vigourous mother.

 

[Closet Funk]

More and more good info. Thanks.

 

[Wacky Tobacky]

The important part about the F1's is that the parents are inbreed and unrelated
Hybrid vigour vs. incest depression, thats what makes a good F1 (expensive).

A real F1 offspring should have about 80% the same (vigouros) phenotypes and 20% not so great phenos, in an IBL, almost every plant should be the same pheno (like with Skunk).
You'll have a fairly good idea of what you'll get with those with unstabilized (poly)hybrids, every plant could be very different in shape, potency, flowering time, growth pattern, yield,....


Thats the problem with the cannabis seed business, they're gonna tell you anything to make you pay more money. IBL, F1, etc... how many breeders do you know that have breed down to F4 or F5 to be able to call them IBL?
How much would you pay if they told you thats its basically just a cross from the hard work of other real breeders or even just a cross between two good clones?
There is more to being a breeder than pollinating female plants with male pollen.

Why do i need to pay $200 for 10-15 beans of a cross from a "seedster"?

Greed is the answer, nothing else.

peace,

mace

your right but its really not hard to tell a part the real breeders and seedsters.

 

[afropips]

Hi Mace ecaM.

Yes Fellas! there seems to be some confusion with the landrace terminology.
For me a Landrace has been selected & cultivated by man but I notice in the latest Jorge Cervantes Bible he says a Landrace has not been worked by man & refers to a what I know as a Landrace as a Heirloom variety
I disagree with Jorges book in this respect?
This has been causing unecessary confusion amongst growers!

However the latest Bible has good terminology regards inbreeding.
outbreeding , Filial & Backcross methods & the correct use of F1 terminology
& different sorts of hybrids.

I see also that I have used the old school terminology of an inbred line meaning a population of the same variety that has been bred.
Then there is the terminology of IBL & the difference between Inbreeding & outbreeding.
We should really have an icmag glossary which has standardised terminology we can all agree upon & use.

Lets remember what matters is how the high & taste of the buds appeal to the smoker.

Cool Runnings.............

 

[TAG-monk]

AFROPIPS - I noticed in the other thread that you refer to malawi gold as beeing originally a polyhybrid? are you sure?? This is a most interesting theory..can you talk a bit more about this?

 

[Closet Funk]

Why were all on the IBL subject, what other IBL's are available besides the ones mentioned in this post?

IBL's that I know of:

Deep Chunk
Kodiak Gold
Sour Diesel
Burmese
Northern Lights #5
Great Garberville
Temple Hill Skunk
Lebanese Hash Plant
Blackseed
Petrolia Headstash
Nigerian

The majority of the IBL's come from Reeferman, which doesn't surprise me with all the landraces he has.

 

[afropips]

High!
I can recall using the term polyhybrid for some Malawi hybrids.
What Jorge would classify as : a hybrid plant crossbred for more than one trait.
but the more acurate terminology that i should have used was:
A 3 way cross.

Toasted..........on Malberry!

 

[Guest423]

just remember one thing though, ibl's are slow growers, slow cloners, they normally don't stretch much after flower so you gotta grow them big before the flip, and are typically low yielders....thats why they do much better when they are crossed with something vigorious.

example.....i didn't clone my kodiak golds, but when i flipped the lights around 18 inches they only finished at around 20 inches.....my kodiaks only yielded around 1 ounce per plant while the other strains in the same inviroment yielded around 2 1/2 -3 ounces per plant i did 3-4 rounds of normal clones in the time it took my great garbervilles to get roots (4-5 weeks), just something to keep in mind when breeding or planning on keeping cuts.

 

[TAG-monk]

afropips - i quote you " The traditional farmers in Malawi combined genetics from various parts of Africa, India & Asia decades ago to arrive at what is now known as Malawi Varieties." This is what i meant by polyhybrid.

CF - there is a LOT of IBL seriously....let me a few moment, gonna make you a lil' list.

 

[Closet Funk]

just remember one thing though, ibl's are slow growers, slow cloners, they normally don't stretch much after flower so you gotta grow them big before the flip, and are typically low yielders....thats why they do much better when they are crossed with something vigorious.

example.....i didn't clone my kodiak golds, but when i flipped the lights around 18 inches they only finished at around 20 inches.....my kodiaks only yielded around 1 ounce per plant while the other strains in the same inviroment yielded around 2 1/2 -3 ounces per plant i did 3-4 rounds of normal clones in the time it took my great garbervilles to get roots (4-5 weeks), just something to keep in mind when breeding or planning on keeping cuts.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind. That's wierd, it seems since it's an IBL it would grow vigourous and yield alot more. I guess it more of a connasseur type plant then anything. I think that was a good idea crossing your KG to a Skunk. I plan on using 100% Sativas in my crosses so we'll see what kind of yield they throw out. They might have small yields and together they might still have small yields. It's all good if it's primo smoke. I like quality over quantity anyways.

 

[afropips]

Hi Tag,
I see where the misunderstanding comes.
I thought you stated that I stated
"Malawi is a Polyhybrid"
which I clearly did not state but
more accurately comprised of a combination of varieties from different areas that have been cultivated & crossed with open pollination & selective breeding over numerous generations to what we know today as Malawi Cultivars.

Hope that clears it up?

Cool Runnings...........

 

[Closet Funk]

I appreciate all the landrace growers putting in thier knowledge, this is really helpful.

 

[Guest423]

Thanks I'll keep that in mind. That's wierd, it seems since it's an IBL it would grow vigourous and yield alot more. I guess it more of a connasseur type plant then anything. I think that was a good idea crossing your KG to a Skunk. I plan on using 100% Sativas in my crosses so we'll see what kind of yield they throw out. They might have small yields and together they might still have small yields. It's all good if it's primo smoke. I like quality over quantity anyways.

yeah it's strange, i guess after you inbred so long it just loses fast growth and cloning speed from what i've seen from personal experience, maybe thats why some breeders say inbreeding after awhile is bad because u lose vigor and variety, but one cool factor is they mainly grow uniform and they are super tough plants, the stalks get super thick and strong maybe a reason for longer cloning? the nugs weren't big but they were super thick chunks.

yeah i think crossing it with a skunk was a good idea too, i just hope they don't get any hermie tendencies coming from the skunk specials, i would of rather crossed it with the pure or ogbubs skunk which i'm gonna do next.

hey, you could end up with a killer cross man, as long as you get primo killer smoke yield doesn't matter...not like any of us are mad commercial producers supplying a big area ya know. yields nice when u have it but it isn't a necessity.