Covid 19 mrna Vaccines...Yes/No?

[Gry]

i didnt say i hate them or not to wear them. i said they don't seem to be helping to get the new infection rate down. i said that you shouldn't feel safe just cause you are wearing it. that doesn't mean things might not be even worse if folks were not wearing them. but it does mean what i said, the stats are unclear in any positive way for mask wearing. while they are clear when it comes to some of the other measures taken. its not a black or white thing, my position is nuanced.

but just in case, i even wore one in my own house when i had 1 friend over for a visit and so did he, only taking them down for a puff here and there on our own separate joints, with 3 meters between us and the window open to the freezing air.

The rate of infection will not go down with out better mask compliance.
The quality of the mask as well as the individuals understanding of how to use them will always be a factor.

 

[h.h.]

i didnt say i hate them or not to wear them. i said they don't seem to be helping to get the new infection rate down. i said that you shouldn't feel safe just cause you are wearing it. that doesn't mean things might not be even worse if folks were not wearing them. but it does mean what i said, the stats are unclear in any positive way for mask wearing. while they are clear when it comes to some of the other measures taken. its not a black or white thing, my position is nuanced.

but just in case, i even wore one in my own house when i had 1 friend over for a visit and so did he, only taking them down for a puff here and there on our own separate joints, with 3 meters between us and the window open to the freezing air.

They claim 60%. Depending.
Doesn’t mean someone won’t get sick. More like they’re only getting 40% of the hit. Our good friend may have saved himself from getting sicker and shedding more virus by wearing a mask. What little virus he did shed was cut again by 60% by continuing to wear a mask. Then again because his friend wore one. The numbers keep getting smaller and smaller.
I don’t really know. It just makes sense to me that they’re effective.

I saw some maskless yahoo’s in Walmart this morning.
I thought to myself, “terrorists”.

 

[Hermanthegerman]

I am for the vaccine, no doubt about it.

 

[gaiusmarius]

The rate of infection will not go down with out better mask compliance.
The quality of the mask as well as the individuals understanding of how to use them will always be a factor.

i know in the US masks are political, but here in Switzerland you will rarely see anyone not wearing masks where they are mandated. the tv has been full of information on how to handle masks.

but when they shut the restaurants down and clubs you saw the stats going down within a few days. we have gone from approx 5k daily infections to 3k in a few days just since the restaurants have been shut. thats what you call a visible scientific measurable result. with mask mandates there is no such corroborating data to be seen in the official data. it has helped with flue, but covid seems to be on a different level.

 

[Gry]

Not at all opposed to Vaccines, however any new med can have complications.
Had I the ability, I would much like to be able to watch and see which of the vaccines
works out the best over the next few months. I do not expect that I will have that option.
I will likely accept the first available as I live in LA which is heavily infected area.
Not wowed by the new tech in vaccines, and would actually feel far more comfortable with those which do not require the extreme cold chain.

 

[unclefishstick]

i figure by the time i can get it 10s of millions of doses will have been administered and we should have a clearer picture of things...

 

[h.h.]

I learned my lesson with blue sunshine.

https://youtu.be/N0W9R3X4Ysc

 

[Guest]

i figure by the time i can get it 10s of millions of doses will have been administered and we should have a clearer picture of things...

I believe sometimes negative side effects can make themselves clear fairly quickly, and the trials were fairly brief.

Still, there are many cases involving litigation over suspect Rx, sometimes decades down the road.

Our science folks can't always see in the proverbial darkness or future any better than some of us.

Otherwise, I tend to agree in most cases involving new drugs, that time is a key component, but more time than what we've had. Unfortunately, there's a virus catapulting us via some sort of necessity, toward acting more quickly than many of us are comfy with.

And there's the remaining questions about mutations, both current and to come, and there has been some initial speculation I've read that there's unknow2ns re. applicability of the current vaccines re. changes that may make the current vaccinations less than potent in battling.

 

[unclefishstick]

I believe sometimes negative side effects can make themselves clear fairly quickly, and the trials were fairly brief.

Still, there are many cases involving litigation over suspect Rx, sometimes decades down the road.

Our science folks can't always see in the proverbial darkness or future any better than some of us.

Otherwise, I tend to agree in most cases involving new drugs, that time is a key component, but more time than what we've had. Unfortunately, there's a virus catapulting us via some sort of necessity, toward acting more quickly than many of us are comfy with.

And there's the remaining questions about mutations, both current and to come, and there has been some initial speculation I've read that there's unknow2ns re. applicability of the current vaccines re. changes that may make the current vaccinations less than potent in battling.

it's a simple risk/reward calculation for me,i ride bikes for transport,and don't intend to ever buy a car again,i need to be able to breathe and have a functioning heart so the risk of that versus the risk of the vaccine makes the vaccine seem the least risky choice...


considering all the drugs i've pumped through my system a few milliliters of vaccine seems like nothing...

 

[Hermanthegerman]

Hmm, I don´t know why I should write it, but I am sure that it is good with the vaccination. In my eyes it is simple, maybe has to do with it, that I was born in the mid 60s. Nobody asked by that time if you or your children want it or not. Further am pretty sure that vaccines brought only good to the human race. I get an vaccination just for our honeymoon trip to Kenya. I never had side effects.

At last we are day active primates with the illusion of a free will, nothing more. If you are a farmer and got a herd of sick animals and a vaccine can stop their dying. Wont you let them be not vaccinated?

Some of us take their selfs a little bit to important.

 

[Veggia farmer]

If I give vaccine to my animals its always the balance of risk/cost/gain.

Already some people have died by the vaccine too in this country. Oooops! Your out, but its for the greater good, so take one for a clean stable, aye? If not, dont take yourself to seriously!

In my stable.... Well, I dont know.... I reather die from the cause then the medicine, but maybe thats just me ?

In an herd you can have different options to treating a disease.

First in ! A disease is often a SYMPTOM on something done "wrong" or in an rather not ideal way.

Second, you wanna fix the symptom or deal with the triggering issue? Eliminate the trigger is my call, at least in my garden. Got mold? Spray or prevent?

In big indoor farms for meat, the animals is EXACTLY treated to live like an ghetto or slum. You get all kinds of problems, symptoms or diseases you "never" see in the wilderness or any other place, then this ghetto.

No, this shite isnt just in the ghetto its EVERYWHERE.. That is a another obsticle.. Well, could we deal it from the other angle I said? I dont(!), LOL, but what about making our more natural HERD immunity? Not be on top of everybody could be a way, social distancing. Come on!? You really believe my subconcscious dont give a damn about one virus, it wanna stand closer to the beatiful women front in the line! If distancing COULD work, we should have done it military style! Everybody one month of suply of food, drinks and shitloads of toiletpaper. Stay home, jerk off and forget ONE MONTH. Thats it, all it takes. Some even suggested 14 days is enough, but make it doable so we are GOOD, and can get the friggen train going again. TchOOO TCHOO! Veggia train blowing steam!

Prevention, dont fuck bats, stay home with mrs. righty tighty! For ONE month!

Ok, Im done now. I have backpains and medication is not working enough, oh well, but dont mind the troll. Have a nice evening! Veggia

 

[Guest]

Hmm, I don´t know why I should write it, but I am sure that it is good with the vaccination. In my eyes it is simple, maybe has to do with it, that I was born in the mid 60s. Nobody asked by that time if you or your children want it or not. Further am pretty sure that vaccines brought only good to the human race. I get an vaccination just for our honeymoon trip to Kenya. I never had side effects.

At last we are day active primates with the illusion of a free will, nothing more. If you are a farmer and got a herd of sick animals and a vaccine can stop their dying. Wont you let them be not vaccinated?

Some of us take their selfs a little bit to important.

Death and life become pretty personal issues for those facing those choices; not so much a matter of inflated self-importance, as it is pharmaceutical reality.

Livestock vaccines have often been around, tried and tested for decades, and tend to be pretty basic. When a cow or pig get too sick in a commercial stock yard, they are typically buried or burned. I don't think we're there yet with our species, but who knows?

Most pharmaceuticals we've been prescribed, like with veterinary meds, have been around a long while, yet my 1988 Physicians' Desk Reference has, for long established, approved by the FDA, and compliant with LONG-TERM trials, often 3 pages of side-effects (some of them very disconcerting or lethal), for drugs that have been around for a LONG while.

I told my Doc the other day that, frankly, I've had far worse side-effects from some of the long-time approved RX meds than from ANY of the recreational substances I bought on the street over the last 50 years. I then told her that if a drug dealer had sold me something that fucked me up back then, it would've been handled directly, very quickly, and resolved. Try that with immunized Pfizer, and a legal brief. I already know where that effort will end.

I'm not 100% opposed to getting the vax in the future. But I think if persons can largely stay home, wear the type of gear we're wearing when we go out, engaging in the types of protocols we do when out, then folks who live that way can be more safe until the vaccines establish themselves as trustworthy... .or not.

This was very quick, somewhat new in concept, and the PDR says the FDA has been 'influenced' by the International language long ago; MONEY. (No, I'm not saying necessarily in THIS case the FDA has been compromised, re. what is acceptable or unacceptable in parameters for side-effects, etc., but it reminds me of the old joke about the woman in the store talking to the man. And he asks her if she would sleep with him for a $million. She replies, "sure!!!" He then asks her if she would sleep with him for $20, and she indignantly responds, "What kind of a woman do you think I am??!!" He replies, "Ma'am, we've already established that. At this point we're merely dickering over the price."

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hmm, I don´t know why I should write it, but I am sure that it is good with the vaccination. In my eyes it is simple, maybe has to do with it, that I was born in the mid 60s. Nobody asked by that time if you or your children want it or not. Further am pretty sure that vaccines brought only good to the human race. I get an vaccination just for our honeymoon trip to Kenya. I never had side effects.

At last we are day active primates with the illusion of a free will, nothing more. If you are a farmer and got a herd of sick animals and a vaccine can stop their dying. Wont you let them be not vaccinated?

Some of us take their selfs a little bit to important.

hm you seem to be putting all vaccines in the same basket.

in my opinion there is a big difference between a 10 or 20 year old vaccine for tetanus or malaria and a 4 month old vaccine based on experimental new tech for a sickness with over 99% survival rate.

lol, show me the monkeys who have hospitals, schools, running water heating, ac, iphones, computers, cars, trains etc and ill agree with you about being a monkey with no free will.

truth is we humans are an amazing species and we live in an amazing world.

once this vaccine has been administered for a few months we will see if it actually even works to stop transmission. so far the only thing the government has said about this vaccine is that it stops people from developing bad cases of covid. they do not know if vaccinated people will still be able to transmit covid. at the same time they are saying 94% of vaccinated will not get a bad case of covid. notice they don't say that you won't get covid at all, just that there will be no hard cases in 94% of vaccinated.

to me this is not convincing, as we already have 90% of people getting mild cases, so whats the use?i hope the data gets better or there is new better vaccine soon.

 

[h.h.]

The point is to empty out our ICU’s.

 

[gaiusmarius]

The point is to empty out our ICU’s.

thats a great point, i forgot to cover. this seems to be the main focus here, they are giving it to the elderly now, as they represent 90% of the bad cases that really does make sense.

scroll down to representation by age:

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/epidemiologic/hosp

 

[h.h.]

For the elderly, three days in the hospital results in two weeks in a care facility. If they don’t have Covid coming in, they’ll get it going out.

 

[Microbeman]

I just wished to point out that the concept of RNA vaccines has been researched and developed for a number of years. It is true that this particular vaccine was manufactured in response to this virus but it is based on foundational research about 30 years in the making.

I am posting a link to a review but I accessed it as a researcher so I am unsure you will be able to read it. The title is;

Three decades of messenger RNA vaccine development.

You may find it elsewhere.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ine-development.pdf?origin=publication_detail

F2F; Please speak up if you think I'm off the mark.

 

[h.h.]

They had the research. That’s why the vaccine was developed so quickly over several fronts. They were ready. All that was needed was to crack the genetic code of the strain. The Chinese did that within a couple days of discovery.

Blue Sunshine. Watch the documentary.

 

[gaiusmarius]

For the elderly, three days in the hospital results in two weeks in a care facility. If they don’t have Covid coming in, they’ll get it going out.

over here the first to get offered the vaccine by Pfizer/bion tech are people living in elderly facilities. i really really hope it brings down the mortality and hospitalization rate. i would say the next 3 months are gonna be very informative in that regard. maybe this mrna tech will turn out to be a revolutionary new tech, but we won't know for a while yet, and we will not know any potential long term side effects for many years to come. in the end it has been studied in great detail so i'd HOPE, there is no surprises lurking in there.

as i said there is another more traditional vaccine going through the last part of certification for use here, i would be way more willing to get that one if i had a choice. im not anti vaccine as a whole, but have been paying attention long enough to know that some meds come with a high price attached in terms of side effects. specially brand new products developed at record speed, lol, sometimes.

its also worth noting that this vaccine was only brought to market here after the company was given immunity from being taken to court for any adverse reactions to this product.

also worth remembering that the pharmaceuticals industry is a profit driven industry that has lobbyists writing laws to profit them and has studies paid for to promote their newest drugs and gloss over side effects. yes they also have helped humanity greatly with many products, basically we should have our eyes wide open when dealing with them.

like dealing with any company, hope for the best but be ready for the worst.

 

[h.h.]

They were pushing the OxyContin. Like anything else though, there’s good people and bad people and everything in between. I search out those I trust.

Not to sound cold, but long term side effects are of lesser importance with the elderly. Their need outweighs their lifespan.