commies

[Cannavore]

After four plus years of explaining to people here what "socialism" means you still haven't moved the dial one inch.

that's not even remotely true lol. biden's most popular policies are quite literally watered down bernie sanders plans lol. almost a majority of those under 40 favor socialism even if bernie himself isnt' one. he LITERALLY helped move this dial forward because capitalism is eating itself.

That term may work great in Europe but here in the US it's seen as a negative.

i completely get that. but you can't have it both ways lol. part of the problem is the democratic media itself paints it as a negative because neoliberals aren't anywhere close in agreement with socialists.

It's like a restaurant naming itself the "Bunghole" Only to have to explain daily it's because they use the "bunghole" from whiskey barrels to make their special sauce and their NOT some fetish club.

this is basically the same argument republicans give me.

WHOA you don't say that both of the capitalist elite parties are against socialism and anything to the left of the democratic party?!?!?!? it's becuase they make it fail on purpose.

It's called branding. And Bernie doesn't get it. If a comedian has to explain their joke after telling it then they have already lost. And Bernie is a socialist joke.

youre right and wrong. bernie isnt a socialist. youre using the same smear language as the right whether you know it or not. you people are, as always, aiding the right.

 

[Cannavore]

I agree that throwing around the words socialist or socialism does more harm then good and therefore is a branding/messaging problem especially in a country where most people who might object to anything Bernie Sanders promotes gets their information from talk radio, podcasts or Fox news where they are mostly told what to think and believe about socialism.

it's almost like the USA is uneducated or something. besides bernie's branding mistake, how is this bernies fault? im a high school dropout and i know bernie isn't a socialist.

I think Bernie and other progressives run into another problem though. They tend to go for these really big agendas where they try to get too much all at once. I think they would be better served by focusing on one things and if/when they achieve it give the public time to experience it and see the benefits.

incrementalism has given you trump and proto fascism. how can you possibly say this lmfao?!?!

Like with the ACA all the talking heads had most people on the right believing it was too much and was just going to destroy healthcare and end up costing too much.

thats a failure upon the neoliberal messaging. because in truth, they agree with the capitalist far right. neoliberals WANT FOR PROFIT HEALTH CARE. these people hate you and you carry their fucking water LMFAO.

Once it got passed though and people actually experienced how they benefited from it all of a sudden people started liking some of the things it brought them and then even people who were once against it didn't want the Republicans taking it away.

so again, it was a dem messaging problem lmfao. imagine losing the info war to people who think jesus is coming back to save their souls LMFAO.

When you start throwing a bunch of things out all at once people start to panic and just see it as becoming a huge burden financially and they resist even trying.

not my fault people are fucking dumb. the policies are correct and the libs stand in the way just as much as the far right does.

Free College, Student debt forgiveness, expanded single payer healthcare, holy shit Bernie, you're going to bankrupt the country.

LOL literal right wing talking point.

Of course the response is always no problem we'll just tax the rich, it will be great, you'll see. Then you get the usual response, generally from the rich that you're punishing success or robbing the rich to pay the poor and since the wealthy have too much control over government none of it ever flies. So just go for one thing at a time, let people see how good it can be in spite of the messaging on the right and then go for the next thing.

i dont care what the "rich" say. they are thieves and corrupt. they control our politicians. of course theyre going to echo these sentinments. the policies themselves unattacched to any politician is beyond popular.


i dont think you libs understand whats going on lmfao. we have a good 10 years left before the right goes full on fascist and we have environmental collapse. we're quite on schedule with MIT's predictions of TOTAL SOCIETAL COLLAPSE BY 2040. your incrementalist neoliberal approach that LITERALLY PUT US IN THIS SITUATION ISN'T GOING TO MAGICALLY RESOLVE THIS SITUATION. it's BEYOND TIME for radical action.

 

[h.h.]

Send more cash?

 

[Cannavore]

First we need to blunt the anti abortion movement that has taken hold. Protect the rights we do have while trying to strengthen them.

you mean the thing obama had two entire fucking terms to take care of lmao? CMONNNNNN

I would like to see universal health care.

the democrats will never allow it.

I think Obamacare laid the ground work.

forcing you to buy overpriced garbage ass private insurance is the groundwork to affordable universal healthcare? huh??????

Hempkat is dead on. When people got it they liked it and didn't want to see it go away. Democrats need to pull those voters back in who have been leery voting dem lately.

you have millions of leftists who will literally fucking vote for you pending policy agreements rather than rolling the dice to figure out if some dude who loved trump will vote for you the next time (HINT - they're not. they literally think you drink adrenochrome from babies lmfao). merging the democratic party with neocons isn't the winning strategy you think it is.

One thing GOPers do effectively every election is vote.

the dems wouldn't have this problem if they acted as a working class party who doesn't lean right anytime a beyond popular left wing policy is brought up. stop courting the imaginary centrist republican. there is no fucking center in this country!!!!!!!!!

It may have taken them 40 years to overturn Roe vs Wade but they kept at it. Too many fare weather fans who typically vote Dem sit out to many elections because they feel like the party isn't doing enough. If they voted in every election the Dem party could push back harder instead of fighting uphill.

im not going to vote for you without policy concessions. thats how voting fucking works.

 

[Cannavore]

Send more cash?

do you really think leftists send money to the DNC?????? lmfao

 

[h.h.]

I’ll send it to the democratic socialists. They have a lot of free time doing nothing.

 

[Cannavore]

the democratic socialists of america aren't socialists. they are socdems aka idiots who think they can reform capitalism (after bernie failed two times in a row and was smeared as a far left authoritarian socialist). they are inaffective gatekeepers.

read noam chomsky, the greatest living left wing scholar we have in this country. he has covered how america changes the definitions of pretty much all their politicial meanings. that's why libertarianism went from meaning anarchism and socialism to meaning neo feudalism.

 

[Cannavore]

Noam Chomsky: Neoliberalism Is Destroying Our Democracy​

 

[Cannavore]

oh okay lol

 

[HempKat]

it's almost like the USA is uneducated or something. besides bernie's branding mistake, how is this bernies fault? im a high school dropout and i know bernie isn't a socialist.

I never said Bernie was at fault for anything but a branding mistake and trying to get too much too fast. Good for you that even though you dropped out you knew Bernie wasn't a socialist imagine how much more you would know if you didn't drop out. What you as a individual knows or doesn't know is irrelevant because yes the USA is uneducated. Politics mainly from the right have been dumbing down the education system and thru it, the public, for decades. Mostly thru Republican state level agendas gutting education budgets. Anyone who went thru public school in the 60s-70's or earlier and has paid attention to how schools have changed knows this. The Republicans don't want a public that can critically think their way to the truth, they want a public that they can tell what to think and believe that they critically thought their way to that conclusion. Which is what they got at least mostly in the public that votes Republican.

incrementalism has given you trump and proto fascism. how can you possibly say this lmfao?!?!

Incrementalism hasn't given us Trump or Proto Fascism. First of what those things represent have been developing all over the world not just in America. I'm not sure what the cause is in other countries probably something similar to the cause in America or what's at the root of it. What gave us Trump was senate obstructionism mostly from the right but to some degree from the left too and it's mostly achieved thru rules that were never meant to be and either way are now obsolete, meaning the filibuster. There has been no real incrementalism because both sides think that when you are the minority your job is to find anyway to undermine the majority in hopes they get voted out the next cycle. so for decades we've had a legislative branch that almost nobody but the rich feel represented by and whose approval ratings haven't gotten out of the 20% range even once this century nor most of the last 3rd of the previous century. It's a do nothing congress that gave us Trump and the inability of either party to show us something different even if incrementally. To the point that the public literally decided to give a overtly morally bankrupt elite celebrity a shot at the presidency because nothing else seemed to work. The proto fascism was always there but it was held in check until Trump gained power and saw how it could be manipulated to serve his will.

thats a failure upon the neoliberal messaging. because in truth, they agree with the capitalist far right. neoliberals WANT FOR PROFIT HEALTH CARE. these people hate you and you carry their fucking water LMFAO.

Wow, so you think the right and the neoliberals are in the same bed on healthcare? That lack of a high school education is starting to show. The shortcomings of the ACA are all at the feet of conservatives. What got passed fell far short of what the ACA was supposed to be but in spite of the sabotage from the right it still improved healthcare significantly from what it was and had it been allowed to be what was intended it would have become Bernie's much dreamed of single payer plan. You're an absolute buffoon if you think the neoliberals wanted to have things end up as they are now.

so again, it was a dem messaging problem lmfao. imagine losing the info war to people who think jesus is coming back to save their souls LMFAO.

Hello! McFly!, No you moron it wasn't a dem messaging problem, the dems were on board with the ACA from the start. It was the people on the right buying into the Republican messaging about death panels and all the other nonsense. When the bill still got thru and people on the right could see for themselves then they realized they had been lied to and it wasn't so bad and they started to like it.

not my fault people are fucking dumb. the policies are correct and the libs stand in the way just as much as the far right does.

True, it's not your fault that others are fucking dumb it's just your fault that you are fucking dumb. The policies haven't always been correct which is why the right's arguments carry some weight you can't do a whole bunch of changes all at once and then say, we'll just take it all from the rich. You need to build gradual plans that will provide millions of good paying jobs that lift most of America up where most American's start paying taxes. Right now the lion share of the money are government operates on comes from the rich already. The majority of the country gets back everything they pay in and many of those actually get back more then they pay in thru EIC. If you put more of the burden on the rich they'll just leave and take all their money with them. The only real way to bring about meaningful change is to rebuild the middle class and you do that by pushing agendas that create good paying jobs like the Build Back Better plan does with infrastructure and what the Inflation Reduction Act does for Climate Change. It's no accident that even though everyone has been saying the inflation will bring about a recession the Economy is showing signs of improving and remaining strong. Now if the Dems can just get the majority of voters to see that and give them more control in Congress then was can keep adding to those incremental steps by adding the stuff Republican's obstructed.

LOL literal right wing talking point.

Hello! "McFly! No shit that was a literal right wing talking point, unfortunately one that could prove true if it happens too fast and too much at once without growing the tax revenue by building back a better, stronger middle class instead of always taking it from the wealthy

i dont care what the "rich" say. they are thieves and corrupt. they control our politicians. of course theyre going to echo these sentinments. the policies themselves unattacched to any politician is beyond popular.

You better care what the rich say because like it or not they've been what's been keeping things going around here. We can't afford to just ignore them or snub them at least until we get a strong middle class back and we're a long way from that yet. Besides it's childish and incorrect to see all rich as thieves or corrupt. Many of them are good people that just managed to be very successful and have earned where they are. Further not all of them look down on the rest as commoners that are only there to serve. There are many rich that do a lot of good around the world but you hear little to nothing about it because they just do it because it's right not because they want praise or a tax write off.

i dont think you libs understand whats going on lmfao. we have a good 10 years left before the right goes full on fascist and we have environmental collapse. we're quite on schedule with MIT's predictions of TOTAL SOCIETAL COLLAPSE BY 2040. your incrementalist neoliberal approach that LITERALLY PUT US IN THIS SITUATION ISN'T GOING TO MAGICALLY RESOLVE THIS SITUATION. it's BEYOND TIME for radical action.

I think it's you that doesn't understand, us libs know what's going on we've been calling for change since the 60's and instead of being closer to turning things around we're actually further away. In fact there is an very strong possibility we are already past the tipping point and no matter what we do we won't get back to where we could have been if we actually did things to change the future back in the 60's. Now we're at a point of just trying to minimize how bad it's going to get. You have it all wrong if you think my "incrementalist" approach put us where we are or that it will magically resolve things. Magic is for babies and small children that believe in fairy tales. My "incrementalism" is that we need to go all in, full bore, on climate change, screw free this and free that, all that shit is for down the road when/if we survive climate change. The only thing we need to do besides go all in on climate change is to do it wisely so people end up in good jobs with good skills related to climate change. If we do it wisely and succeed at climate change then all that free shit you progressives want will fall into place in the end.

 

[HempKat]

oh okay lol

View attachment 18749479

View attachment 18749480

See? The right wants to keep you dumb, dumb = compliant and it gives them a way to play their class warfare games. The only dynamite to educating the "proletariat" is that will make them equal and they'll begin to see thru the lies. As for avoiding having too many highly trained and unemployed people they failed miserable at that but now they've offset that by saddling most of those people with student debt to keep them down and stuck in menial jobs until their too old to achieve their full potential.

As for military recruitment, hey most of the people willing to go into the military are not college material anyway. Sure in the past some have joined the military for the college benefits but with as much as colleges have raised prices since those days the military college benefits are no longer like having a completely free ride the way they used to be. Plus if push comes to shove selective service is still a thing and in a crisis we could draft millions of troops per year.

 

[armedoldhippy]

you mean the thing obama had two entire fucking terms to take care of lmao? CMONNNNNN

Obama and the Democrats did not address it because no one (at THAT point in time) thought that there was one chance in hell that the SC would overturn nearly 50 years of precedent in order to kiss right-wing religious zealots asses...that mistake will NOT be repeated when (not IF) the Democrats get into power again. bank on it...everything will be encoded into federal law from then on out, because it is now obvious that the SC is just another bunch of political hacks.

 

[h.h.]

Public education is socialist. No wonder you dropped out. It isn’t worth a damn.

 

[armedoldhippy]

it's almost like the USA is uneducated or something.

maybe willfully ignorant? but, many ARE relatively uneducated, you are correct.

 

[Absolem]

youre right and wrong. bernie isnt a socialist. youre using the same smear language as the right whether you know it or not. you people are, as always, aiding the right.

I thought my "smear language" on Bernie's socialism was dripping enough with sarcasm for most to understand. Guess not.

At one time you supported Ron Paul.......... now you make fun of them.
At one time you supported Alex Jones................now you make fun of them.
Bernie will end the same way for you. One day you might find yourself politically.
Until then keep taking those political surveys so you can reinforce who you think you are.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

As for military recruitment, hey most of the people willing to go into the military are not college material anyway. Sure in the past some have joined the military for the college benefits but with as much as colleges have raised prices since those days the military college benefits are no longer like having a completely free ride the way they used to be. Plus if push comes to shove selective service is still a thing and in a crisis we could draft millions of troops per year.

Oh yes. That worked out so well for us in Vietnam.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Obama and the Democrats did not address it because no one (at THAT point in time) thought that there was one chance in hell that the SC would overturn nearly 50 years of precedent in order to kiss right-wing religious zealots asses...that mistake will NOT be repeated when (not IF) the Democrats get into power again. bank on it...everything will be encoded into federal law from then on out, because it is now obvious that the SC is just another bunch of political hacks.

Democrats fucked up by thinking (again) that the GOP will play by the same rules the everyone else has to play by.

And then I point out that in 2022, senior DNC leadership threw moeny and endorsements behind an anti-abortion centrist democrat instead of a pro-choice progressive running in the same race.

Senior DNC doesn't give 2 shits about abortion access because they (our so called leaders and their families) won't need to abide by those same laws. And now (with RvW) overturned, they have another great fund raising tool. "Send us money so we can feign like we care about abortion access".

 

[HempKat]

Oh yes. That worked out so well for us in Vietnam.

I didn't mean to imply selective service was a good thing, I'm just saying if we had need to build up our military ranks fast we don't need to have an offer for free education to do it. Believe it or not the government was/is familiar with how unpopular the draft was and it is unlikely it would ever be used again other then for a direct attack on our country like 9/11 for example. There is enough real patriotism in the country still that in the event of a direct attack on the country there would be enough volunteers that the draft probably wouldn't even be needed.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

I didn't mean to imply selective service was a good thing, I'm just saying if we had need to build up our military ranks fast we don't need to have an offer for free education to do it. Believe it or not the government was/is familiar with how unpopular the draft was and it is unlikely it would ever be used again other then for a direct attack on our country like 9/11 for example. There is enough real patriotism in the country still that in the event of a direct attack on the country there would be enough volunteers that the draft probably wouldn't even be needed.

I know you well enough to know you weren't implying that.

I wanted to point out the 800 lb gorilla in the room.

He's over there next to the sofa table.

 

[armedoldhippy]

There is enough real patriotism in the country still that in the event of a direct attack on the country there would be enough volunteers that the draft probably wouldn't even be needed.

i wish that i had the same faith that you do on this matter. i HOPE that you are correct in your belief. but from their rhetoric, too many people only want to defend THEIR idea of what this country should be, instead of defending it as it is with warts and all. in some respects, some Scandinavian nations are ahead of us in the education/military problem. they GIVE you 4 years of college, but you have to GIVE them several years of service, whether military or social service. there have been instances in this country where folks went to college, got their medical degree, then tried to weasel out of the time they agreed to serve in the military medical corps in order to become a doctor...