commies

[mowood3479]

you think this unique to the socialist far left?
death squads are a hallmark of the far right
Nazi Germany vs USSR - who killed more?
pretty much even Stephen on that one
extreme politics kills, no matter the label you want to stick on

The ussr killed far more, if you knew anything about history you would know this as not even close.
not to say Nazi germany wasn’t a great evil. It was.
but the ussr exterminated 50-60 million people between (1917-1987) A much longer time period to be sure but the death toll far exceeds Nazi germany

governments (right, left and center) have murdered 100 million people (low estimate) in the last hundred years. They are the gold medal winner of greatest evil without question

check out the holodomor in Ukraine (forced starvation by the Communist party) on the people of the Ukraine
very very evil stuff

 

[mowood3479]

When they talk about private property they arent talking about your home they are talking about Wal Mart.

Interesting... is that what they told the kulaks as the seized their homes and farms and butchered their families?

 

[igrowone]

The ussr killed far more, if you knew anything about history you would know this as not even close.
not to say Nazi germany wasn’t a great evil. It was.
but the ussr exterminated 50-60 million people between (1917-1987) A much longer time period to be sure but the death toll far exceeds Nazi germany

governments (right, left and center) have murdered 100 million people (low estimate) in the last hundred years. They are the gold medal winner of greatest evil without question

check out the holodomor in Ukraine (forced starvation by the Communist party) on the people of the Ukraine
very very evil stuff

you're grabbing numbers that suit your purposes
the actual numbers are likely never going to be known, just dry estimates of holocausts
critical point being is that extreme politics tends to result in murderous intentions
and right wing politics has never hesitated in killing as it sees fit
worse? better? I'd say it's the same aspect of human behavior
politics is just the color of the paint used to justify the killing

 

[Cannavore]

Interesting... is that what they told the kulaks as the seized their homes and farms and butchered their families?

i'm talking about marx. as far as i know, when marx brought up property rights, there is a distinction between personal property (your home) and private property (capitalist businesses).

 

['Boogieman']

i've been using this as an example a lot lately, but i think it illustrates an important point as to why people are fed up with our economic system.

"According to a groundbreaking new working paper by Carter C. Price and Kathryn Edwards of the RAND Corporation, had the more equitable income distributions of the three decades following World War II (1945 through 1974) merely held steady, the aggregate annual income of Americans earning below the 90th percentile would have been $2.5 trillion higher in the year 2018 alone. That is an amount equal to nearly 12 percent of GDP—enough to more than double median income—enough to pay every single working American in the bottom nine deciles an additional $1,144 a month. Every month. Every single year.

Price and Edwards calculate that the cumulative tab for our four-decade-long experiment in radical inequality had grown to over $47 trillion from 1975 through 2018. At a recent pace of about $2.5 trillion a year, that number we estimate crossed the $50 trillion mark by early 2020. That’s $50 trillion that would have gone into the paychecks of working Americans had inequality held constant"


The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90%—And That's Made the U.S. Less Secure
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion...ality-america/


yes i know you're self employed or have a family business or whatever so this probably doesn't fully apply to you, but when you take into account that something like 70% of Americans (might be wrong on the %, going by memory) work for corporations, this is still happening to the majority of American workers out there and will probably only get worse as inequality grows.

I believe changes can be made for the better, after all that's why we vote right? I'm not anti capitalism but yes some things need to be addressed. I work for my family business (plumbing/hvac), I originally wanted to work for a big construction company in Chicago, but after seeing the cost of living and taxes compared to the wages I realized things just wouldn't work out.

 

[Microbeman]

The ussr killed far more, if you knew anything about history you would know this as not even close.
not to say Nazi germany wasn’t a great evil. It was.
but the ussr exterminated 50-60 million people between (1917-1987) A much longer time period to be sure but the death toll far exceeds Nazi germany

governments (right, left and center) have murdered 100 million people (low estimate) in the last hundred years. They are the gold medal winner of greatest evil without question

check out the holodomor in Ukraine (forced starvation by the Communist party) on the people of the Ukraine
very very evil stuff

not the high numbers but lets not forget the horror of genocides perpetrated by the Europeans to create Canada, USA, and the countries of Central America, the Carribian and South America

 

[igrowone]

not the high numbers but lets not forget the horror of genocides perpetrated by the Europeans to create Canada, USA, and the countries of Central America, the Carribian and South America

genocide is a very common feature of human history
old as mankind itself in all likelihood

 

[Microbeman]

genocide is a very common feature of human history
old as mankind itself in all likelihood

sucks...don't it?

 

[igrowone]

sucks...don't it?

indeed

 

[mowood3479]

i'm talking about marx. as far as i know, when marx brought up property rights, there is a distinction between personal property (your home) and private property (capitalist businesses).

Well I’m sure all of those murdered in the name of communism “collectivizing” their personal property can take great comfort in the fact that communism’s ideological founder made a distinction in name (but not in practice) between personal property and the means of production
by the way I’m starting to notice a trend between communism, as presented on paper ( by Marx, by you) and communism as enacted in the real world.

not To say there aren’t major problems with capitalism but I don’t find the reality to be as far removed from the on paper plans

perhaps I’m missing something major ?

 

[mowood3479]

you're grabbing numbers that suit your purposes
the actual numbers are likely never going to be known, just dry estimates of holocausts
critical point being is that extreme politics tends to result in murderous intentions
and right wing politics has never hesitated in killing as it sees fit
worse? better? I'd say it's the same aspect of human behavior
politics is just the color of the paint used to justify the killing

as I see it governments in general murder people in mass.
I see no need to make a right left or center distinction.
tyranny is tyranny
That said the death numbers I quoted are from historians with phds and are readily accepted within the historical community
I do bring them up to highlight a point ( that governments mass murder humans at rates never seen in the private sector).... that’s why people bring up statistics in a discussion...
so yes in some sense Iam grabbing numbers to suit my purpose (to highlight tyranny and mass murder by govts)
it just happens that the numbers are real and at one time they were each a fully human person.

 

['Boogieman']

as I see it governments in general murder people in mass.
I see no need to make a right left or center distinction.
tyranny is tyranny
That said the death numbers I quoted are from historians with phds and are readily accepted within the historical community
I do bring them up to highlight a point ( that governments mass murder humans at rates never seen in the private sector).... that’s why people bring up statistics in a discussion...
so yes in some sense Iam grabbing numbers to suit my purpose (to highlight tyranny and mass murder by govts)
it just happens that the numbers are real and at one time they were each a fully human person.

Well said

 

[Cannavore]

death toll argument is a "gotcha" by people who hate/dont understand communism and can't really tell you why. if your metric of why something is bad is based on body counts, then capitalism is the reigning champ.

 

[Gry]

death toll argument is a "gotcha" by people who hate/dont understand communism and can't really tell you why. if your metric of why something is bad is based on body counts, then capitalism is the reigning champ.

Salute

 

['Boogieman']

death toll argument is a "gotcha" by people who hate/dont understand communism and can't really tell you why. if your metric of why something is bad is based on body counts, then capitalism is the reigning champ.

Well just because you feel they should die for not complying doesn't make it right.

 

[packerfan79]

Still going with the "real communism has never been tried ploy" lol. It's been tried , human nature just interfered, and millions suffered, with no option to leave, unlike evil capitalism, which allows people the choice to leave.

Lol. Some will never learn until there brains are splattered on the wall.

 

[Cannavore]

Deaths attributed to "communism" - 94 to 100 million

Deaths attributed to capitalism in 20th century - 120 million (conservative number)


Combine capitalism with Christianity and it's not even fucking close.

 

[Cannavore]

Well just because you feel they should die for not complying doesn't make it right.

My point went right over your head.

if you're gonna sit here and talk about how bad communism is and the only metric you have is "death toll" then by your logic you should be just as anti capitalist (or more) as you are anti communism since capitalism has killed more people.

see how dumb the death toll argument is yet?

 

[igrowone]

death is bad but does it matter about the rationals and intentions?
for example many of the German camps were extermination camps
you came in and you were marked for death, 100% Jewish removal was the goal
now the USSR camps, not extermination camps
very grim but numbers I see point to 50% survival in the worst
goal not to exterminate but to produce useful citizens for the country
better/worse? personally prefer neither

 

['Boogieman']

My point went right over your head.

if you're gonna sit here and talk about how bad communism is and the only metric you have is "death toll" then by your logic you should be just as anti capitalist (or more) as you are anti communism since capitalism has killed more people.

see how dumb the death toll argument is yet?

I highly doubt capitalism has killed more people. What makes you believe this? The only argument you could possibly come up with is some businesses make bombs for profit. That could easily be fixed by not voting in war mongering assholes, I don't even see it as a left or right thing. As for starving, every poor person has access to food stamps, not our fault if they trade it for crack Instead. Then you have people in Venezuela who are literally starving because they voted for socialism.