Colorado House Bill 1284

[scarred4life]

i don't want to step out of line cause i'm one of your hated cali immigrants (a broke one though), but i think y'all are kind of underestimating the start-up costs of compliance with hb1284, which btw requires that you have a retail storefront BEFORE you can even apply for a grow license. i've been in the cali club scene a while, and i think i've got a roughly accurate estimation of the costs; here's my breakdown--let me know if i'm way off.
1. Adequate facility for grow and sale, or two smaller, separate facilities for grow and sale: 2k a month minimum/ 12k initial lease payment (most landlords of clubs want 6 months up front)
2a. Installation of a secure wall, bullet-proof glass, and magnetic locking doors between waiting room and dispensing lounge if grow facility is present: 5-10k
(or)
2b. Installation of outer security doors at separate grow and retail facilities: 3k
3. Security camera system: 2-4k, depending on if you need two systems for two separate facilities or one system for combo grow/dispensary
4. Security Guards: 3-4k a month IF no bonding is required
5. Two assistants/ bud tenders: 2k a month
6. Electrician fees for setting up the 220 amp infrastructure needed for a commercial grow that will pass fire department inspections: 1K
7. Hydro Equipment for 6,000 watt MINIMUM grow space (4000w flower/2000veg): 5k
8. Advertising: 1-2k a month
9. Capital for Restocking during product shortage: 10K
10. Local Licensing Fees: 1k minimum
11. State Licensing Fee: 5k
12. Mortgage/Rent for Secure Residence: $1500 a month minimum (yeah, this is a cost too if you have to have an address that you feel comfortable posting on a huge sign outside your business)
13. Signage/ Decorations for retail space: 1-2K
14. Electricity: 1k a month
=
Minimum Initial Investment: approximately 50K
Minimum Monthly Operating Costs: 11k
Minimum Start-Up Capital: 70-100K

Oh yeah, and you’ve got to shell out a significant amount of the initial investment BEFORE you know whether or not you’re applications for licensing are actually approved.

This is all totally affordable for your average American citizen, right?

 

[scarred4life]

BTW, the operation I just described would go out of business within 12 months competing with the cali big boys...harborside, blue sky, the farmacy, etc.

i'm talkin about 100k investment to have a grow op that would fit in a basement or master bedroom

good luck getting your business loan from cannabank usa

 

[Citizen80919]

I think you would need more than 4k for flowering light. At 6 plants per 1k light that's only going to get you 24 plants every 2 months.

If you are spending 2 grand on advertising, you might need more product.
You will only be able to buy 30% from outside your garden.

 

[Tr33]

A 7 line Third party news stories from Denver, give me a f'n break. That news story is wrong, has no true data. Just a blurp typed by some kid behind a word processor.
I live here in Ned and read the initiatives went to the city council meetings and it is total complete legalization. Sales, possession, cultivation, transportation, anything to do with herb is legal.
In Denver an Breck you will still get busted for amounts over an ounce. Not here in Ned, but our Chief Police said that if they can prove criminal intent involving large marijuana offenses they will prosecute with state and federal laws. Otherwise they don't care.
That's the difference Ned decided to create. The first city in America to legalize marijuana, not just decriminalize like Breck and Denver. Big difference. Not the same in any way, and if you think it is, you have no clue.

Actually, you are incorrect, it was only "decriminalized", like Breck and Denver. Denver LEO has been arresting/citing folks under the "State" law. Read this story: http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_14837271

Then there was the question of getting legalization on the statewide ballot. This was done a few years back and it was voted down...

 

[orpanic]

If you go back to the original post, I said that patients don't need all of the CBD's bred out of the plant in the interest of getting super high.

I'm pretty sure that I've a grown significant quantity of "herb". You base your statement on ???? the fact that since im a dick, I can't grow "herb" ?

I don't smoke "beaters" whatever that is. I am a patient too. I know what works and what doesn't. I think it would be great if breeders leaned toward higher CBDs instead of breeding them out.

What part of my logic doesn't make sense ?

If you want to debate, bring some content into the discussion besides "you don't know shit" and "you are a dumbfuck" and "pathetic wannabe know it all".

What are we freaking 12 years old here ? If you want to have a discussion feel free to contribute actual content. I've already openly stated that I'm a dick. Dumbfuck, pathetic, wannabe... not so much.

sorry for the typo...You smoke BEASTERS. and you don't know it.

Why are you bitching about high THC levels?
When THC oxidizes, it degrades into CBN, which gives a stonier effect than the "super high" THC..

 

[Citizen80919]

If you read carefully you will note that I am not bitching about high THC levels. I'm bitching about the breeding out of the CBDs that counteract the high from the THC.

The more CBD, the more THC you can ingest without getting wasted to the point of dysfunction.

Rec users want all THC, Med users need THC, but with CBDs left in to counteract the high.

Does that make sense ?

 

[Greenmopho]

If you read carefully you will note that I am not bitching about high THC levels. I'm bitching about the breeding out of the CBDs that counteract the high from the THC.

The more CBD, the more THC you can ingest without getting wasted to the point of dysfunction.

Rec users want all THC, Med users need THC, but with CBDs left in to counteract the high.

Does that make sense ?

If you are such an expert.....Don't bitch....breed your own...

 

[orpanic]

If you read carefully you will note that I am not bitching about high THC levels. I'm bitching about the breeding out of the CBDs that counteract the high from the THC.

The more CBD, the more THC you can ingest without getting wasted to the point of dysfunction.

Rec users want all THC, Med users need THC, but with CBDs left in to counteract the high.

Does that make sense ?

CBDs don't counteract THC, it's not that easy. You need THC to get the desired effects from CBDs, it's the sum of the whole parts kind of deal, look at Merinol-all THC no good.
Your generalizations are weak. Not all rec users want high THC, not all patients want high CBD. You got a weak argument there, if you want to get logic involved.

"The more CBD, the more THC you can ingest without getting wasted to the point of dysfunction. "
I don't fully understand your point here, too vague.

 

[Greenmopho]

This is all totally affordable for your average American citizen, right?

Agreed, a bit too crazy.

This is the American way though, isn't it? Big business, big money, no room for the small guy. Put the small guy out of business and make him a consumer. From the government's standpoint, there is no patients, no medical grade cannabis, there is only commodity and consumers, and they want control of the industry before they fully legalize. They know that full legalization is on its way, its inevitable. So the new approach is "Exclusion through Capitalism" versus "Exclusion through Law Enforcement", which was an approach that was getting too expensive. Trust me, they have rooms full of economists and accountants crunching the numbers on this, over and over again. Right now they want to tap into the top level of a black market and take a piece. The idea is to give the upper hand to big business, 50k+ operations, that can bring the cost down to almost unheard of rates. At my own calculation, it costs most growers between $800-$1000 for the cost of production of a pound, max. If a large operation manages to cut corners and streamline it's process, they could get that as low as $250-300 per pound, obviously at the cost of quality. I know most people see those numbers and are saying NO WAY, but that is what their accountants and economists are calculating. And if they are able to move 100+ pounds per month or per week, they don't have to sell it at a large mark up, they will make it in volume. So lets say they only charge $500-$600 per pound, this would effectively close the small time grower and make him just a hobbyist. Sure, that shit would be "beasters", and most likely any thc/cbd%, strains, etc would go to the wayside for mass production and profit. But there would be no way to compete in such a market as a small grower, even if you had grade A+ product, you wouldn't get more than $800-$1000 per pound, and you would not be able to make back your cost of production, effectively making you a hobbyist grower. Why? Because a small grower is hard to regulate and hard to tax. Its kind of hard not to tax and regulate a 40,000 sq ft grow operating in the open.

As citizen said, big grows go up, price goes down....but so does quality. And as I said, there really aren't any "patients" or "medicine", its just consumers and commodity to them, plain and simple. Let's go back to that example I gave of my buddy who is a Native American and grows organic tobacco. He only grows a few batches of it for him and his friends, etc. It is good stuff, even for tobacco, but does he have a market for it? No, there is no consumer interest or demand for such a product. Why, because once a product is mass produced and brought to a generation, it only takes one generation to take that product/plant/commodity for granted. Look at the tobacco, alcohol, and food industries! Even if there was consumer demand for organic tobacco, as a small grower, he would need much investment and realistically couldn't mark up his product that much, I mean, tobacco is everywhere, doesn't matter how good it is, its still not worth THAT much more if its amazingly good...unless its Cuban, but that once again is going back into the black/grey market. Its only expensive because of an embargo....see how our entire market system is easily manipulated.

Just look at history. Tobacco was once rare and super expensive. Only the rich could smoke it pure, the poor people had to blend it with marijuana (which is the origin of the euro-joint traditions) because marijuana was a worthless weed that grew everywhere. Growers prided themselves on varieties of tobacco with subtle differences in flavor and characteristics. All that went to the wayside, tobacco is now a subsidized crop in America, and farmers that grow it have to be part of co-ops or farm bureaus. Since tobacco is not a food crop, it has no regulations for pesticide or fertilizer, so they maximize their profit, while whoring out poisoned plants once held sacred, at a subsidized rate that is paid from YOUR tax money! It is grown with the worst radioactive pesticides, and is probably much much worse for you and cancer causing then the plant would be in nature. This is what the US also did to the entire Mexican corn farming industry, by subsidizing and allowing big business to come in and produce a commodity at the industrial level at near or below the cost of production, therefore automatically putting everyone else that is smaller out of business. There will be no more strains or THC/CBD %'s, it will just be generic marijuana, bred and engineered to give the highest yield in the shortest time. There will be no strong or weak herb, if you want more THC, you have to smoke more. Read history if you don't believe me...

I'm sure if Ritter or Romer had their way, they would just hand a contract to the largest cartel that could dump money on their desk to grow ALL of the "certified medical" herb for Colorado, and that would be the only stuff that dispensaries could sell, and the government would in turn take 10% off the top, and tax the consumer in the end. Then we would all be smoking Mexican schwag, plenty high in CBD!!! The only real medical weed! Legal monopoly.

Sound pretty pessimistic, and I have no idea where or how to stop it, other than educate others and show them what REAL good herb can and should be!!!! NOT MASS PRODUCED!!!

Leave it to guys like Citizen, and you'll be buying your weed at Wal-Mart from Anheuser-Busch....strain? whats that? Menthol or Non-menthol!

And don't think its not right around the corner, look at the kids now, the dispensaries are already selling crap, these young kids are already forgetting what good weed is about!!! It just takes 1 generation to take a plant for granted....

 

[Citizen80919]

While I agree with some of that, I'm not buying all of it. The Cannabis conusmer market tends to be very picky and eletist when it comes to the meds.

If the 40k sq foot warehouse is growing a huge crop of "BEASTERS" then they will likely be sitting on large piles of unsold meds. Sure some people will buy it if it is cheap enough.

Look at Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Plenty of people buy it because it's cheap and it's beer. However the Micro Brew industry in Colorado is rather robust, isn't it? They seem to be doing pretty well by eeking out their specific corner of the market.

Flooding the market with cheap sub par meds may not be the market driver. Look at how much MexiBrick and CaliOutdoor makes it's way to CO. It's not impacting the market in the least.

Just a thought or 2....

How did I become the hallmark for all that's bad in the business ?
I'm just throwing some facts out there that really should be mulled over a bit

 

[scarred4life]

I think you would need more than 4k for flowering light. At 6 plants per 1k light that's only going to get you 24 plants every 2 months.

If you are spending 2 grand on advertising, you might need more product.
You will only be able to buy 30% from outside your garden.

Plant #s and time till harvest are very strain and style dependent, citizen. But your right, 4k of flower light isn't nearly enough. My point is that it would take so much investment just to do a 4 cycle.

 

[Greenmopho]

Look at Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. Plenty of people buy it because it's cheap and it's beer. However the Micro Brew industry in Colorado is rather robust, isn't it? They seem to be doing pretty well by eeking out their specific corner of the market.

Flooding the market with cheap sub par meds may not be the market driver. Look at how much MexiBrick and CaliOutdoor makes it's way to CO. It's not impacting the market in the least.

Have you been in a dispensary lately? It's almost ALL Cali outdoor, and don't tell me its not, cuz I used to vend Cali outdoor IN Cali!!! Most dispensaries have it, because they can't refuse $2000-2500 per pound. Of course there is no MexiBrick, cuz no one wants brown weed.

Okay, lets use beer as an example. Pabst Blue Ribbon is just one beer, I am talking about completely dominating a market, such as Coors, Bud, Miller, holding 80-90% of the market share on beer. And yes, microbrews had a big surge in the 90's, but it has since calmed down, a few good ones have survived, but seems like most people think Breckenridge Brewery is commercialized crap for tourists. Microbrews just fill a niche in the market, on a national level they barely compete. And even with a microbrewery, you can't exactly start it in your basement, you will need at least $100-$200k to make your microbrewery dream a reality. And all in all, when people go out for a beer, what do they end up getting? Even with all the brewing heritage here in Colorado, microbrews, etc., the #1 sold beer in all of Colorado is still Bud Lite. See how that works....Corporate domination!

 

[Greenmopho]

While I agree with some of that, I'm not buying all of it. The Cannabis conusmer market tends to be very picky and eletist when it comes to the meds.

And that Cannabis consumer market...that has kept cannabis alive and made all the contributions to get to the point where we are today.......are all picky and elitist recreational users........LOL
from Ed Rosenthal, Jorge Cervantes, DJ Short, Subcool, Marc Emery, Jack Herer, shit...even Mr. Dank......all recreational users....don't believe me, go ask 'em yourself....

I got respect for you Citizen, but you have to understand, people don't like newbies with strong opinions on these types of boards. You seem to be less of a person when you have less Posts, I am still learning this also. Forum junkies are a weird breed, and I hate to say, I was not one until I got sucked into icmag. I am not discriminating you in any way, but don't be so quick to trash posts of people that have been on this site for years, and don't throw recreational users under the bus from your higher ground new school medical ideology. You are standing on the shoulders of giants, don't ever forget that! I truly believe that cannabis is medicine, but it is also much more than that! I feel as humans, we have a right to grow this plant, whether it be for medication or meditation! And we can connect to this plant spiritually, and you should take these ideas into consideration. If you are new to MMJ and are not in it for full legalization, and instead perpetuate this pseudo-legal medical climate, then i don't think you are on the same page as most of the people on here.

 

[funkfingers]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Greenmopho again"

 

[BowlPacks]

The state wants $2100 for every additional 100 amps brought into a facility. Keep that in mind folks. Also, there will be licensing fees for grow's but it will definitely not be the 50k a year Romer thinks it will be. Background checks for sure, so if anyone has violent or drug related felonies you'r fucked. This WILL work out. What the game has changed to is a Co-op model (soon). What that means for us is we will have to abandon our old "no one know's" attitudes because that will put us out of business and risk our livelihoods. At this point I suggest networking and starting/joining a collective. Thats what I'm doing. It's definitely a fucked up direction that our lives have to head, but it's still fighting the good fight. Network, share, converse, and join forces. It's the only way to keep growing for patients other than ourselves. "Hold on, be strong"

 

[BowlPacks]

I think you would need more than 4k for flowering light. At 6 plants per 1k light that's only going to get you 24 plants every 2 months.

If you are spending 2 grand on advertising, you might need more product.
You will only be able to buy 30% from outside your garden.

The 70%/30% thing is really stressing alot of people out. Read carefully. It says "quantities ON HAND". So, if I'm a dispensary and I have 10lbs "on hand" then I can buy 3lbs from joe the grower if he has a license to grow. I was stressed about it too until a long night dissecting this ever changing bill kinda cleared things up in my head. If I'm wrong though, please let me know so I can figure out a way to suppress my anger and frustration before I find out the hard way.

 

[Mile Hi Dave]

The state wants $2100 for every additional 100 amps brought into a facility. quote]


Show me where you got this from????! and again...where do u get you info from regarding co-ops? They are "expressly" forbidden in HB1284.

If you are going to spout out a bunch of bullshit...then ya better be able to show your sources!!

 

[scarred4life]

I like your optimism, bowlpacks, but dave is right that you're misreading the bill. Perhaps the details have changed, bp, but drafts a-c of hb1284 have all specified that the ONLY way that "joe farmer" can even apply for a grow license is if has already been approved for "joe's medical marijuana center," i.e. a retail establishment, a dispensary. The retail establishment is a prerequisite for a grower's license.

Has anyone heard about a change to the amount of patients a caregiver can have? Did the number change to 16 for all caregivers, or just those caregivers who live in an area where there are no dispensaries? I guess it doesn't matter if all the municipalities and counties want to zone small caregivers like licensed growers. These zoning laws are starting to seem more and more like a mild version of the federal stamp tax...sure, you can technically grow legal cannabis, but good luck growing indoors in the dusty, buildingless field the city council has determined as the only appropriate spot for the devil's cabbage.

 

[Surrender]

Show me where you got this from????! and again...where do u get you info from regarding co-ops? They are "expressly" forbidden in HB1284.

No mention of co-ops in the current draft of 1284.

 

[Bud Spleefman]

I believe BowlPacks has been monitoring the hearings LIVE, he was right the last time he was reporting on them.