Colorado Growers Thread

[Lonesome Burt]

^^^ And of course, the flip side of my posting above is that a physician's recommendation for excess plant counts doesn't automatically prevent prosecution or conviction; it simply allows you to raise the affirmative defense if you're charged and dragged into court.

 

[cobcoop]

I think this idea that you must have a physician's recommendation for excess plants comes from a misunderstanding of the affirmative defense.

Here's the language regarding plant counts exceeding the guidelines, and the affirmative defense of medical necessity. Notice it says nothing about a physicians recommendation as being required for plant counts that exceed the guidelines.

(b) For quantities of marijuana in excess of these amounts, a patient or his or her primary care-giver may raise as an affirmative defense to charges of violation of state law that such greater amounts were medically necessary to address the patient's debilitating medical condition.

The affirmative defense gives you a legal basis to make the argument in court that you require the extra plants due to your medical condition.

A doctor's recommendation for the extra plants might be helpful in arguing your case, but is not a legal prerequisite to do so. I believe that's why people are being advised to get the doctor's recommendation for plant counts above the guidelines. Lawyers are doing what they do.

No offense intended here cobcoop; just clarification.

That is true, and of course there has been at least one case where this was successfully argued, but for the sake of propriety, when folks ask, I inform them of the limits written into the amendment to err on the side of caution.

 

[Lonesome Burt]

That is true, and of course there has been at least one case where this was successfully argued, but for the sake of propriety, when folks ask, I inform them of the limits written into the amendment to err on the side of caution.

My point is that a physician's recommendation for plants exceeding the limits is not mentioned at all in the amendment. It's not part of the law. It's something that the attorneys came up with.

If a patient wants to grow plants or possess amounts in excess of the 6/3/2 limits, they have to rely on the affirmative defense to avoid prosecution or conviction, whether or not their doctor gave them a recommendation that those amounts are a matter of medical necessity.

Whether or not their doctor recommended the excess might be considered by the prosecutor or jury, but it's not mentioned in the amendment.

Your post that I originally quoted said "And the 6 plants, is 3 in flower 3 in veg. You can't have more than 3 flowering plants at anyone time without a doctors recommendation".

To be more correct, I'd say "if youre going to exceed the 6/3/2 limits, you'll have to rely on the affirmative defense, and you may want find a doctor who'll put those amounts on your recommendation form to assist with your defense".

Some of the postings I've seen here aren't clear on that.

 

[HossCartwright]

My point is that a physician's recommendation for plants exceeding the limits is not mentioned at all in the amendment...

Yes it is. I believe it reads,"...or, as is medically necessary." Medically necessary = as recommended by a physician.

 

[Lonesome Burt]

Yes it is. I believe it reads,"...or, as is medically necessary." Medically necessary = as recommended by a physician.

Amendment 20 doesn't say that anywhere either.

What is says is " (II) The patient was advised by his or her physician, in the context of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, that the patient might benefit from the medical use of marijuana in connection with a debilitating medical condition".

The only place where "medical necessity" is mentioned is what I already posted:

(b) For quantities of marijuana in excess of these amounts, a patient or his or her primary care-giver may raise as an affirmative defense to charges of violation of state law that such greater amounts were medically necessary to address the patient's debilitating medical condition.

There's no language about a physician making a determination of medical necessity for amounts in excess of the limits. It just says patients and caregivers can claim it as a defense.

 

[HossCartwright]

burt, wtf are you trying to say exactly? Do you have a point or are you just on a paranoid rant?

 

[Lonesome Burt]

Here are the two misconceptions I'm seeing on this issue of plant counts and doctor's recommendations:

(1) "Ive got a doctor's recommendation to exceed the 6/3/2 limits, so I'm completely legal to have those quantities".

Wrong, you could still be arrested, prosecuted and convicted. The affirmative defense just allows you to claim that you were legally in possession of those amounts due to medical necessity.

(2) I can claim the affirmative defense for possession of excess amounts only if my doctor's recommendation says I need them due to medical necessity.

Wrong, you can still present the defense; whether it's accepted would be up to the prosecutor, or ultimately the jury.

There was a case where a guy in Boulder was charged and prosecuted with a large number of plants and a bunch of excess finished marijuana, and he was acquitted after claiming the affirmative defense. Here's a link:

http://coloradoindependent.com/35114/boulder-pot-patient-acquitted-by-sympathetic-jury

No mention there of a doctor's recommendation to support his defense. Note that after his acquittal, colorado420 commented specifically "[This is a] victory for all medicinal cannabis patients in Colorado. A very intelligent jury has ruled that Article 18, Section 14 of the Colorado Constitution allows a patient to determine what amounts are medically necessary to treat their condition.

The only "completely legal" situation is to be within the limits and registered.

This whole issue of a doctor's recommendation for excess amounts may be a factor in the outcome of a case, but it's not the last and final word either way.

 

[Lonesome Burt]

burt, wtf are you trying to say exactly? Do you have a point or are you just on a paranoid rant?

I'm just trying to present some information here Hoss. That's why the board is here.

Sad you want to try to turn this into a personal situation...that sounds a bit paranoid to me.

This place really isn't worth the trouble. Try to help clear up people's misconceptions and they can't handle it.

 

[rmccinc719]

i have to agree with lonesome burt on this one. i have a recomendation for 18 plants but just like burt said the recomendation only gives a possibly defence. my doc may recomend whatever he want's. but it's my lawyer who I'm going to listen to and he will alway's recomend to stick with what's written into the law. affirmative defence is a joke and should be taken as so. the only affirmative defence is to not have to defend yourself in the first place. if you want to gamble with your freedom go for it. personally I'm not going to risk my family and lively hood on only a possibly defence.

 

[cobcoop]

As I said, when people ask, I steer them toward erring on the side of caution... becuase the law DOES say:

(4) (a) A patient may engage in the medical use of marijuana, with no more marijuana than is medically necessary to address a debilitating medical condition. A patient's medical use of marijuana, within the following limits, is lawful:



(I) No more than two ounces of a usable form of marijuana; and



(II) No more than six marijuana plants, with three or fewer being mature, flowering plants that are producing a usable form of marijuana.

 

[movingtocally]

So how crazy is the market for you gents right now? Still 3500 plus for serious indoor or has it fallen below that even?

 

[HossCartwright]

I wish there was a separate thread for legal issues and we could just talk about growing here. Burt, I'm sorry if I came off strong.

 

[Ms_Weekend]

So how crazy is the market for you gents right now? Still 3500 plus for serious indoor or has it fallen below that even?

id dont know how you can even give a # price out here when everyone just wants oz or qps of a strain........no one really wanting whole lbs of one strain atleast that ive seen....they just want you to came back every week.....now maybe if your willing to front it to them they might take a lb, but then your opening a whole shit can of problems.

 

[Ms_Weekend]

I wish there was a separate thread for legal issues and we could just talk about growing here. Burt, I'm sorry if I came off strong.

shit hoss you already made burt cancel his acct little late for an apology.

 

[HossCartwright]

shit hoss you already made burt cancel his acct little late for an apology.

Is that why it says "guest" next to his name? I thought maybe he blocked me or something. Shit guess I'm the ahole in the box today.

I wasn't trying to pick on anybody. I'm just so sick of reading about all this legal BS. I know a guy who got raided with 48 plants and claims to have had the paperwork to justify 96 plants yet it's still going to court and the city attorney is seeking a conviction. He has to go spend 10k+ and god knows how much time of his life defending himself and he had 15 patients. My point is, everyone growing is taking a risk even if you think your legal. Everything is situational right now in CO. Why do you want to come on here and talk about answers to questions nobody knows? All it does is breed misinformation and paranoia. I'm not hiding my head in the sand but I don't want to constantly be reminded about the inherent risks. Is it just me here who feels this way? I want to read about Kelly's DIY UC and get tips from mr Dank about runoff. Anyway...

 

[Ms_Weekend]

what city did that happen hoss?

 

[HossCartwright]

what city did that happen hoss?

check your pm's

 

[RockyMountainHi]

I wish there was a separate thread for legal issues and we could just talk about growing here. Burt, I'm sorry if I came off strong.

Y?

intellegent discussion isn't your fort'e
And if you don't want to be reminded of the risks,,,,, - Isn't that sticking your head in the sand? - or somewhere else?

And while you may want to argue pointlessly and with no legal or juducial support, - the fact is - lonesome is right.


Show me one case where a judge said - "you had too many plants, but I won't tell"
Care to be the first? -- Thought not. Me either.

And if your unlucky enough to have to splain the 24 ounces of bud in the trunk - you better have a stack of current caregiver forms. And I highly doubt that would be a walk in the park, should LEO want to cause said grower mucho legal hassle. Fortunatly there are enough examples of what not to do - LEO could be busy for years with them.

Fact is - even today - if a officer came in and counted 2 veg plants - 2 floweing plants, 2 clones, and 1-1/2 ounces - he could easily find something or some way to let me know, who runs the reins. Word is avoid any potential legal interactions - they are always expensive and they have a way of getting railroaded by the courts.


Don't ask me what to do, I gotta go burn a few j's to stay under my limits - or above them,,, lol

 

[HossCartwright]

Y?

intellegent discussion isn't your fort'e
And if you don't want to be reminded of the risks,,,,, - Isn't that sticking your head in the sand? - or somewhere else?

And while you may want to argue pointlessly and with no legal or juducial support, - the fact is - lonesome is right.


Show me one case where a judge said - "you had too many plants, but I won't tell"
Care to be the first? -- Thought not. Me either.

And if your unlucky enough to have to splain the 24 ounces of bud in the trunk - you better have a stack of current caregiver forms. And I highly doubt that would be a walk in the park, should LEO want to cause said grower mucho legal hassle. Fortunatly there are enough examples of what not to do - LEO could be busy for years with them.

Fact is - even today - if a officer came in and counted 2 veg plants - 2 floweing plants, 2 clones, and 1-1/2 ounces - he could easily find something or some way to let me know, who runs the reins. Word is avoid any potential legal interactions - they are always expensive and they have a way of getting railroaded by the courts.


Don't ask me what to do, I gotta go burn a few j's to stay under my limits - or above them,,, lol

blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah

 

[RockyMountainHi]

Y?

intellegent discussion isn't your fort'e
And if you don't want to be reminded of the risks,,,,, - Isn't that sticking your head in the sand? - or somewhere else?

blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah

And that statement is in case, there was any doubt??????

Or is that what they call witty banter back at the ranch?