Coco holding too much water. Pots wont dry and roots turning brown

[jidoka]

gypsum works great in coco. lets you reduce calnit use in the salt feed which lets you lower nitrate in the plant which makes a healthier plant.

everyone ought to try single plant and reduce your calnit use by a third. got nothing to lose but maybe a plant or some bro science that is just holding you back

 

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[Mikell]

Thanks for the negative reputation slownickel.

Jidoka's post is a valid contribution, welcome, as he grows in coir.

Yours are not, as you do not.


I understand your desire to help others. One of the many phases of foruming. Your CEC thread appears informative and helpful to many. I admit I do not know a whole lot on the subject and had intended to browse through at sometime.

But one needs to avoid overextending from their knowledge base, or bad advice is the result. Helping outside of what you know is no help at all and frequently counterproductive.

>>>>>>>>>>>>edited to keep the peace<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[Speed of green]

gypsum works great in coco. lets you reduce calnit use in the salt feed which lets you lower nitrate in the plant which makes a healthier plant.

everyone ought to try single plant and reduce your calnit use by a third. got nothing to lose but maybe a plant or some bro science that is just holding you back

Have you written about this somewhere else? i'd like to learn more.

I have a coco grow with jacks+calnit and things are great, but I'm curious about this gypsum and what i may be missing out on.

 

[jidoka]

I have not. I use raw salts and horiba meters to dial in my salt formula. I can tell you straight up the jacks has 50% more K than I use. The other thing that was making it tough was the only traditional source of Ca you have in an ionic feed is calnit... get Ca up to where it needs to be and nitrate levels in the sap go too high. You might get away with it in a perfect environment...but how many people have that.

So then I kinda got to listening to slow and thought hmmm...what would happen if I chucked some gypsum in there and reduced the calnit and fuck me, it worked. I have sap numbers that I know will work in shitty environments.

 

[rossta18]

How much gypsum did you chuck in jidoka?

 

[Speed of green]

How much gypsum did you chuck in jidoka?

 

[slownickel]

Thanks for the negative reputation slownickel.

Jidoka's post is a valid contribution, welcome, as he grows in coir.

Yours are not, as you do not.

I understand your desire to help others. One of the many phases of foruming. Your CEC thread appears informative and helpful to many. I admit I do not know a whole lot on the subject and had intended to browse through at sometime.

But one needs to avoid overextending from their knowledge base, or bad advice is the result. Helping outside of what you know is no help at all and frequently counterproductive.

<<<<<<<<<<<<post edited to keep the peace<<<<<<<<<

Soil science is soil science. Let me spell it out for you.

Never dropped a bowling bowl from the Empire State building either but I can with great confidence tell you it will not float away like a balloon!

I always tell folks to try what I tell them on one plant or a small area. Doesn't matter if I am standing in 2,000 acres of grapes or if I am talking to a know it all like You. I am quite cautious and quite responsible with what I do and what I say.

As for that foul mouth of yours, well that is your problem and shows your maturity. Or lack there of.

 

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[MedResearcher]

Always use Gypsum in my soil mixs. Used it since Tom Hill recommended it for source water that is a tad high PH. Also I am planning to try some Gypsum/EWC spikes this year, and I am excited to see the results.


That being said, I use to grow in pure coco indoors as well. Most people in this subforum do as well. Its basically a hydroponic substrate when used in its pure form. Its rinsed clean, then irrigated with synthetic fertilizer frequently. If the PH or the calcium is off, it can be fixed almost instantly by adjusting the feed water and irrigating to run off. Top dressing it, is to say the least a bit unorthodox, and could surely cause complications for some. Personally I wouldn't top dress rockwool either.


Coco is arguable, since its sort of a hybrid and can be used so many different ways. Soil mix with Coco, gypsum is great. Hydroponics, its a bit strange of an idea. Don't think you would want to top dress with it in DWC or Aeroponics either. Although people learn stuff everyday, so I wouldn't mind watching an experiment.


Don't wanna stir the pot either. Think everyone just wants to be helpful. Thought I could possible bridge the gap a bit with a simple explanation of where the difference of opinion came from.


Mr^^

 

[slownickel]

You seem to miss the point that coco is not soil. You could have a zillion soil grows under your belt and you would still be a newbie in coco. Soil science might be soil science, that's great.... In soil.

Anyone can read everything ever written about coco... It would give them a good understanding, but zero practice. No one likes someone with zero practice offering suggestions. That's just bad etiquette. There's really no argument about it.

Bad etiquette? Chemistry in soil science doesn't change DICKPISSED, doesn't matter what media you are in. Sand, rice hulls, peat, perlite, what ever...

I don't know squat about hydro either. I will post some initial results on hydro in a couple of weeks.

I am not here to argue. My recs' are sound and are recommended for folks to try.

I have never farmed sugar cane in my life, yet I have worked on thousands of hectares of cane with great results.

Never farmed a grape either, neither in sand, soil or in rock, yet I help some pretty amazing grape growers in all those three "soils".

Haven't read anything about coco. Don't need to. When you have a medium, say rice hulls that are holding too much water. There is an instant light bulb that should go off in your head. Magnesium excess.

There is only one way to get rid of Mg and it is a pain in the ass to get rid of. Calcium. Period.

Haven't had any complaints ever from folks that have tried what I recommended. And my recommendations always come with caution to try things first and learn, unlike a lot of what I read on these forums written by some silly wanna be with zilch experience in the real world.

This guy lost those plants, he might have saved them.

Calcium is the only eraser in the system. In a good soil, 85% of the bases (Ca, Mg, K, Na and H) need to be Ca. Now given that fact, do you really want to tell me not to tell someone whose plants are twanged to hell not to try and add Ca? That is heartless. Screw the etiquette.

 

[_tessarecting]

Im down to try it, just flipped my indoor and have loads of gypsum here.

Think maybe around wk 4 or 5 I'll give a few some. What do you recommend for a 2gal?

Would you reduce your conductivity for a feeding or two?

It could be watered in too like they do at vineyards.
It says "solution grade" but I dont have the balls to run it thru my drip

 

[slownickel]

Well just wanted to give you all an update, unfortunately not a good one.

I transplanted pretty much my entire veg into new coco and the problem was definitely what delta9 was saying about the perched water table. Most plants were still sopping wet towards bottom of the pot and hadnt been watered in 5 days.

I knocked most of the old coco off and transplanted, but roots looked so horrible I was pretty sure they were not going to bounce back, which they never did. I was able to get a few healthy cuts but lost 3/4 of my strains and got put behind quite a while.

Never had that problem before in 5 years of using coco, but sure wish i would have trusted my gut when I saw how fine it was. All I can say now is lesson learned...

The issue is you were no longer in Coco. You were in decomposed organic material, basically a new soil.

This is why I recommended you to try some gypsum. Several other growers on the board have had the same problem. What a shame you didn't try what I told you.

There is a lot of talk on there pages. You will hear lots of opinions. You should read other posts by the talking heads and then read what the results were.

EVERYONE that has tried gypsum is loving it.

Sorry you didn't try. Gypsum opens up a soil and is the ONLY element that can do that task. There is no other, and at the same time, the plant has a huge need for calcium whether folks want to hear it or not.

The coco guys can get away with high conductivity, etc.. but only while the material maintains the airway and space available to do so, but this stuff always decomposes, some faster than others.

Good luck!

If you bother to read the thread, you will see what was found. Layers that had formed which were sopping wet?

What is the only element which can open a soil?

My call was right on.

 

[slownickel]

The longer fibers are preferable, especially for pure coco mediums and recycling. If your coco is too fine, I would amend 4:1 cocoerlite/hydroton/etc.




Permanently dead as opposed to temporarily dead?

There is some etiquette.

Tell the guy he needs to repot the plants when they are already suffering and then makes sarcastic remarks....

Sort of like making jokes at a funeral.

Maybe I take plants and their owners a bit more seriously.

 

[slownickel]

Im down to try it, just flipped my indoor and have loads of gypsum here.

Think maybe around wk 4 or 5 I'll give a few some. What do you recommend for a 2gal?

How fine is your gyp?

A dear Israeli hydroponic engineer friend of mine and I have always discussed the idea of using thicker size gypsum as the hydroponic medium. You have me wondering that maybe you should try both thick and then do fines as maintenance and when you go into flowering (second big burst of roots)

What do you figure 2 gallons of your coco weighs?

 

[MedResearcher]

Good to have backup clones. Once a plant looses its vigor, especially a tiny one, its quicker to yank it and replace it with one that is taking off.

Now a 6' tall bush in the ground, half way into summer... its worth some soil analysis and a good RX.


Personally I don't like to see a plant stall or decline in health for a single day in its life cycle. Healthy from day 1 to harvest, is where its at. Springtime or indoor I cull anything that doesn't take right off. Wanna start/take at least 4x as many plants as you will need. So you can cull, and replace any problems.

Anyways, sounds like if the OP just goes back to his tried and tested Coco he shouldn't get this problem again.

Mr^^

 

[_tessarecting]

Solution grade.

Just weighed a gallon of wet and dry coco

702.8 g / 2,252.8

These numbers are irrelevent though because I cut it w 20% perlite and don't have any perlite here I don't think. I can probably just kill a runt and run weights on that tomorrow when im not so stoned

Edit: I weighed dried coco after measuring a half gal. Then I soaked it and strained off and let it drain until it stopped and weighed that.

 

[slownickel]

Solution grade.

Just weighed a gallon of wet and dry coco

702.8 g / 2,252.8

These numbers are irrelevent though because I cut it w 20% perlite and don't have any perlite here I don't think

How long before weighing it did you wet it?

 

[slownickel]

Good to have backup clones. Once a plant looses its vigor, especially a tiny one, its quicker to yank it and replace it with one that is taking off.

Now a 6' tall bush in the ground, half way into summer... its worth some soil analysis and a good RX.


Personally I don't like to see a plant stall or decline in health for a single day in its life cycle. Healthy from day 1 to harvest, is where its at. Springtime or indoor I cull anything that doesn't take right off. Wanna start/take at least 4x as many plants as you will need. So you can cull, and replace any problems.

Anyways, sounds like if the OP just goes back to his tried and tested Coco he shouldn't get this problem again.

Mr^^

Med,

The idea of trying to reach the full potential of a plant is key. This is why you don't like trying to recoup plants, easier to throw them away.

Provided one has thought it out like you and has 4 times more plants sitting there, things would be fine. But sometimes folks have already gotten to that point and hit the wall. You might be surprised how easy it is to turn some plants around and quickly if one reacts.

Maybe that is my problem, expecting folks to make the effort and try something outside of their comfort zone. Won't be the first time nor the last.

As a grower I try my best to grow the healthiest, best tasting product that I can. I also expect to get excellent yields.

To achieve those objectives is not easy. Many different varieties have extra needs. Higher N, lower K. Many require high Ca.

If you read over the bit of literature out there written by real agronomists, you will see actives and terpenes peak under high Ca conditions.

We have also seen evidence of this with several growers on the forum. Higher yields, higher quality, higher terp reports and at the end of the day, fire.

There are many ways to grow a plant. Some work much better than others. That's all.

And if you are trying to get the wow affect, well, I think there is only one way to achieve that.

Anyone agree?

There is a competition forming to demonstrate this very point.

 

[_tessarecting]

I found some 80% coco and 20% perlite mix in a tote from when I transplanted.

Dried gallon = 664 g
Soaked and then drained = 2,059.2 g

I just gave them some woowoo calmag I had laying around as a door stopper so I'm not sure about the gypsum flip tech this round

I have a hand full of runts I could slam w gypsum tonight