Coco holding too much water. Pots wont dry and roots turning brown
- Thread starter spaceboy
- Start date
Ok, lets get a few things straight here. Coco is NOT an inert media. The line between "soil" growing and hydroponics is a very thin wavy line. If you are growing in the ground outside in soil, in a place like Florida or Thailand, you are growing in pure sand with a low CEC, no organic matter, this is hydroponics in the ground. This would be the equivalent to growing in pure perlite. Sand is MORE inert than coco, but would still be considered soil. You would have to fertilize constantly, because the sandy soil would hold zero nutrients, where coco would hold on to many, because most coco has a CEC of 10-15. So how is coco not a soil? You guys have let marketing control all your thinking.
If you were in a forest of coconut trees in the hills of Sri Lanka, and you looked on the ground and noticed the spongy, peat-like, reddish top soil, it would be primarily made up of coconut husks. So the soil there would in fact be coco. What soil IS is all relative to where you are standing. Coco coir has up to 30% organic matter, how is that not like soil? You choose to treat it like hydroponics and throw soluble fertilizers at it, that doesn't mean that chemistry doesn't apply to it. When you start with any media other than pure rocks (perlite, lava rocks, hydroton), you may call it "inert" because it has no real nutrient value to it that is relevant to plant nutrition. But its the byproduct of another plant, that doesn't make it totally inert, it is slowly breaking down and decomposing, even as you are growing in it. And it holds and buffers nutrients and builds a colloid, whether you like it or not. When you constantly bottle feed soluble nutes, you are throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks and doesn't slide off. You are starting with nothing and building a "soil" by the end of it, controlling the conductivity of it by how much leaching you are allowing, i.e. flushing, run-off, etc. But by bottle feeding, you are essentially forcing the ratios of cations that are in the solutions you are feeding, therefore mostly guaranteeing success, be it brainlessly. Thats literally the only difference between soil and hydroponics.
If you were in a forest of coconut trees in the hills of Sri Lanka, and you looked on the ground and noticed the spongy, peat-like, reddish top soil, it would be primarily made up of coconut husks. So the soil there would in fact be coco. What soil IS is all relative to where you are standing. Coco coir has up to 30% organic matter, how is that not like soil? You choose to treat it like hydroponics and throw soluble fertilizers at it, that doesn't mean that chemistry doesn't apply to it. When you start with any media other than pure rocks (perlite, lava rocks, hydroton), you may call it "inert" because it has no real nutrient value to it that is relevant to plant nutrition. But its the byproduct of another plant, that doesn't make it totally inert, it is slowly breaking down and decomposing, even as you are growing in it. And it holds and buffers nutrients and builds a colloid, whether you like it or not. When you constantly bottle feed soluble nutes, you are throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks and doesn't slide off. You are starting with nothing and building a "soil" by the end of it, controlling the conductivity of it by how much leaching you are allowing, i.e. flushing, run-off, etc. But by bottle feeding, you are essentially forcing the ratios of cations that are in the solutions you are feeding, therefore mostly guaranteeing success, be it brainlessly. Thats literally the only difference between soil and hydroponics.
Oh, and listen to Lazy Man, that dude is the shit! I have been reading his threads for like 8 years, and "Overkill is under-rated" is a regular tag line of mine when we are doing any kind of build out! Totally right on with letting the coco dry out in the beginning. I don't know where you guys think to have to keep it wet, unless your soil EC is so high that if the coco gets too dry you start to get salts precipitating out of the coco and crystalizing. But that just means you are feeding too heavy!
Old Toker
Well-known member
x2that was one of the most solid things I've read around here recently, nice write up space case
Old Toker
Well-known member
Man you were dead on accurate about how much water to add to the bricks. I admit.....originally I thought you were wrong and I was going to need to add another gal of feed.....but it worked out perfectly! Thanks a ton brother!
BTW - for anyone following this thread from the beginning: The difference between this coco (Canna) and Cyco Platinum Coco is dramatic. Canna has a lot fibers and a handful feels kind of "fluffy". Cyco looks real fine and with almost a pre-screened top soil like consistency.....only coco brown. If you didn't know better (and I didn't).....it looks a lot more premium than Canna. BUT....evidently....I need to grow in lighter, longer fiber coco. Well....I don't really NEED to. But if I want my plants to live and flourish ....then it's a good idea.
In fairness to the Cyco coco.....my seedlings did live and seemed to do well. I just needed to wait longer between feedings to allow the Cyco coco to dry out enough. Would my plants have done BETTER if I started with Canna? Don't know....but as of today they are in 1 gal pots of Canna.....and still alive as of an hour ago.
Thanks everyone for the help.
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chronosync
Well-known member
Sweet!
thanks for the follow-up and comparison and good luck with yr growing!
nice discussion here, id like to thank all as well for contributing and helping me to remember WHATS WHAT with coco
i wish i knew this stuff last year ! !
thanks for the follow-up and comparison and good luck with yr growing!
nice discussion here, id like to thank all as well for contributing and helping me to remember WHATS WHAT with coco
i wish i knew this stuff last year ! !
Old Toker
Well-known member
Definitely one of the advantages of the IC Mag community. If you are willing to read and search.....you don't have to make EVERY newbie mistake in order to become a better grower. Of course it is helpful to know what it is that you do NOT know......like my lack of understanding as to what type of coco to use. Thanks to this forum though.....I have hopefully resolved a potential problem before it became an actual one. But it is still early.....I can still find a newbie way of screwing this up.nice discussion here, id like to thank all as well for contributing and helping me to remember WHATS WHAT with coco
Old Toker
Well-known member
Considering I haven't reached the flowering stage yet in my first indoor grow.......I'm definitely not going to disagree with your 5 years of successful coco growing.
However, let me be clear about what I meant when I said let the coco dry out. I am talking about wet/dry cycles during the root development stage of vegging. The coco never drys completely out.......but instead of watering every day initially....you wait for the roots to fill the container. When they've done this then you can/should either water everyday (and eventually multiple times daily) or up-pot to a larger container. Is this not how it is supposed to be done in coco?
Do you water every day from the seedling/clone stage.....or do you wait awhile before feeding daily?
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Trichstarfam
New member
After transplanting the clone i dont water for three days. After thats its 200ml+ every three hours lights on.
Trichstarfam
New member
I water every three hours no problem. How do you prep your pots? I use 70/30 coco perlite mix with 1-2" of hydroton on the bottom. I also drill four small holes on all four sides near the bottom to help with drainage.
Old Toker
Well-known member
After up-potting to one gal pots I watered (fed) to run-off and then waited until I could see roots through the drainage holes. Took 5 days. Will feed them tomorrow (3 days) and then every other day....and then hopefully the root-ball will be large enough to up pot to their final homes....2 gal fabric pots. Where I will start the wet dry cycle again and for the final time with these plants. Once the new pots (2 gals) are filled with roots (or close) they will be fed daily....and very soon afterward......multiple times daily. This method may be wrong....and maybe it doesn't produce the most product in the least amount of time....but so far it seems to be working.....for me. So far......
Side holes FTW. Hydroton, shale rocks, or lava rocks on the bottom is awesome also, especially if your trays/tables don't drain well.
Lot of the confusion is probably semantics. When something has NO GOD DAMN water in it you use the word DRY. Any frikken water at all in the coco means aaah MOIST. Never let your coco have no moisture so it can be described as DRY
Old Toker
Well-known member
My coco stays moist.
I like how that sounds. Instead of wet/dry cycle.....should I now refer to it as the wet/moist cycle? Thanks for finding the correct term.Stond_Face
Member
I like Boticare and GH coco blocks. The big blocks.
I have a trick for when I have soggy coco.
I use a big shop-vac to suck water from the drain holes.
IMO... when you have had soggy coco for a few days, you need to flush the plant. Because, the water in the coco is probably too strong EC. And, probably too low pH.
If you have a suffering plant in soggy coco, water it with a kind of weak solution, make sure you have a lot of run-off. Then suck a good portion of the water out. That gets oxygen to the roots. The plant starts to perk up the next day. Do this every day for a few days until the roots fill the coco. At that point, you can not over water a coco plant.
The shop-vac thing works surprisingly well. It does suck coco out of the drain hole, so watch for that.
Cheers
S_F
I have a trick for when I have soggy coco.
I use a big shop-vac to suck water from the drain holes.
IMO... when you have had soggy coco for a few days, you need to flush the plant. Because, the water in the coco is probably too strong EC. And, probably too low pH.
If you have a suffering plant in soggy coco, water it with a kind of weak solution, make sure you have a lot of run-off. Then suck a good portion of the water out. That gets oxygen to the roots. The plant starts to perk up the next day. Do this every day for a few days until the roots fill the coco. At that point, you can not over water a coco plant.
The shop-vac thing works surprisingly well. It does suck coco out of the drain hole, so watch for that.
Cheers
S_F
My coco stays moist.
Nobody will go to wet/moist, it will always be wet/dry and some people will stunt their plants with dry.
D
dribbled
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