Coco holding too much water. Pots wont dry and roots turning brown

[slownickel]

I have been reading some of your posts, interesting for sure.
I see no deficiencies in my plants most times.
I use rainwater its has 0.0 EC and 6.2 pH
I am a old dog so new ways are hard when I am so comfortable.
I will continue to a better understanding of what you are saying after reading your posts over a few more times.
Ratz
On another note it is my understanding that to much P mixed in globally retards the mycorrhizae growth

Without a high P, you won't get the yields you want. I would argue as well that quality would be a bit hurting. If you have 300 ppm of K or so, 40 ppm of P won't do anything.... but you will have myco's!

 

[Gry]

Old coco finds an after life in the veggie garden outside. The sight of hydroton balls always brings a mental smile when I see them in the soil.

 

[slownickel]

Oh the little things that bring back fond memories...

 

[Phases]

Gry I know what you mean about the clay balls in the garden outside. I mix all my coco and promix and hydroton into my garden soil all the perlite and hydroton help with the soil drainage, my cucumbers and tomatoes never looked so good. I also use my runoff nutrient solution to feed my outdoor garden.

 

[Burt]

I love coco and thank ic mag for turning me
on to it.
I feel my recycled coco get better every round
I always use an myco innoculant upon final transplant and
lastly, HPK is the secret for monster organic buds
Btw-a light sprinkling of dolomite never hurt anything but the place
us heads really get our micros is from the weekly
organic molasses supplementation during flowering

 

[slownickel]

I love coco and thank ic mag for turning me
on to it.
I feel my recycled coco get better every round
I always use an myco innoculant upon final transplant and
lastly, HPK is the secret for monster organic buds
Btw-a light sprinkling of dolomite never hurt anything but the place
us heads really get our micros is from the weekly
organic molasses supplementation during flowering

What is HPK?

 

[cocktail frank]

I think he is talking about aurora innovations, same company that makes big swell.

 

[Burt]

http://www.aurorainnovations.org/hpk.html
It's great and be sure to get them fulvic and humic counts up yo

 

[mittensmitten]

Cyco coco is more of a dust as opposed to a fiber. it is the cheaper stuff. I use it (cause in my area choices are limited, if I do not wanna drive for 2 hrs total). I mix it with Promix HPCC. But, I do not use it in flower at all.

Still. odds are that the problem is in the water. Cause Coco is supposed to be wet,. If it dries out, and the roots are subjected to drying out, the plant can permanently die. I have seen it.

Coco is not supposed to ever dry out.

 

[delta9nxs]

there is formed in every container by every watering event a layer of water with no air space that is called the "perched water table".

the size or volume of the pwt is dictated by the particle size of the medium. the smaller or finer the medium the greater the volume of the pwt.

in a normal plant container this layer of water can only be removed by the combined forces of transpiration and evaporation.

it takes time to do this. what is happening in your container is that the finer medium is holding a larger volume of water than you are used to. you can compensate by watering less frequently.

but ultimately the solution is to find a medium that has a greater air filled porosity as watering less frequently grows a lower yielding plant simply because of less frequent gas exchange.

i have been making my own coco/perlite mix to create an approximate 35% afp.

but i recently discovered a coco based product that comes out of the bag ready to use.

go to royalgoldcoco.com and check out their "tupur" product.

it is approx 35% right out of the bag and contains perlite, azomite, basalt, and humics.

personally i would yank those plants out of that stuff your using and put them in something better.

i hope this helps

 

[Mikell]

The longer fibers are preferable, especially for pure coco mediums and recycling. If your coco is too fine, I would amend 4:1 cocoerlite/hydroton/etc.

Cyco coco is more of a dust as opposed to a fiber. it is the cheaper stuff. I use it (cause in my area choices are limited, if I do not wanna drive for 2 hrs total). I mix it with Promix HPCC. But, I do not use it in flower at all.

Still. odds are that the problem is in the water. Cause Coco is supposed to be wet,. If it dries out, and the roots are subjected to drying out, the plant can permanently die. I have seen it.

Coco is not supposed to ever dry out.

Permanently dead as opposed to temporarily dead?

 

[spaceboy]

Well just wanted to give you all an update, unfortunately not a good one.

I transplanted pretty much my entire veg into new coco and the problem was definitely what delta9 was saying about the perched water table. Most plants were still sopping wet towards bottom of the pot and hadnt been watered in 5 days.

I knocked most of the old coco off and transplanted, but roots looked so horrible I was pretty sure they were not going to bounce back, which they never did. I was able to get a few healthy cuts but lost 3/4 of my strains and got put behind quite a while.

Never had that problem before in 5 years of using coco, but sure wish i would have trusted my gut when I saw how fine it was. All I can say now is lesson learned...

 

[slownickel]

Well just wanted to give you all an update, unfortunately not a good one.

I transplanted pretty much my entire veg into new coco and the problem was definitely what delta9 was saying about the perched water table. Most plants were still sopping wet towards bottom of the pot and hadnt been watered in 5 days.

I knocked most of the old coco off and transplanted, but roots looked so horrible I was pretty sure they were not going to bounce back, which they never did. I was able to get a few healthy cuts but lost 3/4 of my strains and got put behind quite a while.

Never had that problem before in 5 years of using coco, but sure wish i would have trusted my gut when I saw how fine it was. All I can say now is lesson learned...

The issue is you were no longer in Coco. You were in decomposed organic material, basically a new soil.

This is why I recommended you to try some gypsum. Several other growers on the board have had the same problem. What a shame you didn't try what I told you.

There is a lot of talk on there pages. You will hear lots of opinions. You should read other posts by the talking heads and then read what the results were.

EVERYONE that has tried gypsum is loving it.

Sorry you didn't try. Gypsum opens up a soil and is the ONLY element that can do that task. There is no other, and at the same time, the plant has a huge need for calcium whether folks want to hear it or not.

The coco guys can get away with high conductivity, etc.. but only while the material maintains the airway and space available to do so, but this stuff always decomposes, some faster than others.

Good luck!

 

[Phases]

Space boy. Sorry to hear about your loss. Sucks to loss plants.

I have a similar situation going on. I think I overwatered when roots were really small and now they are not grow/growing really small. I am trying to let them dry out a bit and when I feed try to keep the ec really low as to not burn the plants when the coco dries up.

I might actually up pot them into some new coco. I am usin canna coco but I might add some perlite or clay balls to the mix.

Any suggestions.

 

[Loc Dog]

Space boy. Sorry to hear about your loss. Sucks to loss plants.

I have a similar situation going on. I think I overwatered when roots were really small and now they are not grow/growing really small. I am trying to let them dry out a bit and when I feed try to keep the ec really low as to not burn the plants when the coco dries up.

I might actually up pot them into some new coco. I am usin canna coco but I might add some perlite or clay balls to the mix.

Any suggestions.

I am no coco expert, and am dumping it for hydro at the moment. Perlite at about 20% and air pots or smart pots will give maximum air to medium.

The hydro I am growing is doing so much better than the coco grows, which I never had consistent results from. Will try a side by side in near future.

 

[Mikell]

The issue is you were no longer in Coco. You were in decomposed organic material, basically a new soil.

This is why I recommended you to try some gypsum. Several other growers on the board have had the same problem. What a shame you didn't try what I told you.

There is a lot of talk on there pages. You will hear lots of opinions. You should read other posts by the talking heads and then read what the results were.

EVERYONE that has tried gypsum is loving it.

Sorry you didn't try. Gypsum opens up a soil and is the ONLY element that can do that task. There is no other, and at the same time, the plant has a huge need for calcium whether folks want to hear it or not.

The coco guys can get away with high conductivity, etc.. but only while the material maintains the airway and space available to do so, but this stuff always decomposes, some faster than others.

Good luck!

You assumed the problem, and solution, to a plant you haven't seen, in a medium you've never grown in, let alone topdressed gypsum in while feeding soluble nutrients, then knocked yourself over patting yourself on the back.

Looks asinine summed up like that. Why are you muddling up the coco forum with soil solutions? Do you think it wise to suggest solutions you haven't ever tried?

Cheers

 

[slownickel]

Mikell,

You seem to be a master at lopsided summaries. You missed the conclusion of your silly summary. You were wrong. This was an easy problem to fix. He lost the crop listening to folks like you. They say ignorance is bliss, but I think ignorance in agriculture is extremely costly.

I have worked in many mediums, rice hulls in blueberries, ornamental plants etc... give it a break already. You tried to make the argument that coco is some magic medium, when it breaks down it makes soil. Real simple. Don't make it that complicated and try and open up a little bit to learning.

 

[Phases]

Coco is not like soil at all, in my opinion. So I think Mikell is right in saying you should not be giving advice to coco growers if you have never grown in coco.

Also if you haven't tried growing in coco, then giving random advise about solutions that may work in soil is kind of pointless.

I think there is a section for soil growers, your advise may be better used over there.

 

[slownickel]

Coco is not like soil at all, in my opinion. So I think Mikell is right in saying you should not be giving advice to coco growers if you have never grown in coco.

Also if you haven't tried growing in coco, then giving random advise about solutions that may work in soil is kind of pointless.

I think there is a section for soil growers, your advise may be better used over there.

Several growers in coco are using dolomite. Give it a break already. Chemistry is chemistry. The laws of chemistry don't change due to some magic medium. All I did was suggest that the grower try it on one plant. Instead he tore everything out, replanted it and lost everything.

So your recommendations are do throw everything away instead of trying to use some chemistry? Sorry.

 

[Phases]

You suggested using gypsum not dolomite lime.

No one said the laws of chemistry change but coco has a different cec profile and does not act the same as soil.

I never said anything about ripping out plants, think your confused.

Anyways I am not going to clog up this thread arguing with a soil grower who thinks he knows how to fix everyone's coco issues with gypsum. Sorry.