CO2 supplementation while venting 24/7.

[Principante 8]

I never tried what you are doing with the co2 but I've def had some noise issues in the past. If you don't already, make sure to hang fans and filters from bungee cords so they don't vibrate the walls or ceiling. My garage was below my old apartment and before I did this the whole place would hum. I also used soundboard from home depot and it seemed to work pretty good. We just screwed it in over the drywall on walls and ceilings. Two layers on the ceiling and finally no sound, but it wont hold screws or anchors and nothing can be vibrating the studs anywhere in the room so that's when I got the bungees. Not sure where you are at but the soundboard around these parts is gnarly hardcore stinky, and sheds dust like nothing I've ever seen, so if you haven't used it before make sure to wear a mask and cover it diligently once installed. The fans will suck the cardboard dust off of it constantly if not.
Also, I flume the reservoir now instead of using air pumps and stones. I grow dtw nowadays so not sure how it would work if you're growing recirculating hydro.

Mini splits are a dream but can be busty if you're in close proximity to nosey neighbors. Some friends had to pull down their operation after the landlord got complaints from the longtime neighbors about ac running all the time. They had central ac but installed the split on the other side of the house so it was new noises and apparently suspicious, so it's good you are being cautious. Good luck with the changes, I hope all goes well.

 

[Principante 8]

Almost forgot, the jet engine sound of the fans goes away once you have like 6ft + of insulated ducting. Outside of vibrations on the walls and from air pumps it's really the only thing that is noisy in most rooms. If muffled with ducting or muffler it shouldn't be much of a concern. Insulation and soundboard will do the trick 100% . I've set up a handful of rooms doing it..

 

[Shmavis]

I should also mention that those who run CO2 know just how high humidity levels can climb during lights-out. That’s why sealed rooms often (if not always... ?) require dehumidifiers. So, I think it’s interesting to note that some folks out there exhaust/exchange air in [supposedly] sealed rooms during lights-out. I’ve even read of this as a recommended practice.

If I am exhausting 24/7, then I’m going to keep humidity in check (for the most part) during lights-on, since CO2 will allow for higher humidity levels. But during lights-off humidity will rise, engaging the intake and thereby doing a nice air exchange.

At least in my mind, this seems to make sense...


LH, is this new room of yours going to feature Blockhead...


P8, nice to see you here!

Thanks for the heads-up about the soundboard. I have never worked with it. Maybe I’ll look around to see what my options are in that regard. And yeah, you’ve put a point on my conundrum. Mini-split gets me silent inside... but not so much outside. I’m not sure about whether there’s a trade-off there. A worthy one. It’s something I need to research more.

 

[zerocool21]

ill just throw a few things for you to think about, why not just pull air from another room through the lights then outside keeping the room sealed, using co2 on a controler, small ac if needed. also if noise is a concern get a hyperfan stealth its stupid quiet. it will at least be more efficient and stable

 

[Principante 8]

Thanks Shmavis If you cover the soundboard in poly plastic and then tape the edges with foil tape you'll be golden. It's basically thick,fluffy, low density, glorified cardboard so it's not rigid like drywall. That's why I used as a covering and not a replacement. Packing insulation behind drywall works great as well.

Good mini spits like lg and Mitsubishi are super quiet and not anything like a central unit as far as noise goes, so as long as it's not a cramped apt area or near someone's window, people won't notice it. If needed build a tiny short fence around it and it will look nice and it will cut the sound down considerably. If in the US, Ac wholesalers. Com when you are ready to pull the trigger. Stay away from hydro store junk chinese units.

 

[LastHurrah]

...LH, is this new room of yours going to feature Blockhead...

Yessirree it will. I've never run her before but read numerous positive reviews, so I'm anxious to see what she can do. Have you run her? I need to find out how she stretches so I'll know whether to put her on the table with the vertical bulbs or on the horizontal garden. PM me if you know first hand please. Don't want to hijack your great thread here.

DHF - Thanks for the clarification. So are you saying that by running the fans continuously (at low speed) achieved an air exchange twice per minute? That makes sense now. Anyone using a wind speed gauge to test the cfm of exhaust? That could probably dial in the speed controlled fans with great precision (f*ck... another friggin gadget I didn't plan for). Oh yeah, what's your source for the cheapo co2 monitors you spoke of?

P8 - Great call on the insulated ducting. I've got enough room to throw 6 feet on the exhaust side of my fan. If it works, it'll save 2 Benjamins on a muffler , but like zerocool says... the hyperfan stealth is really quiet, that's what I ordered.

About 8 days away from soaking beans if all goes well y'all.

LH

 

[Principante 8]

I've never used a muffler personally but I've been around them momentarily, and I don't think the ducting will get you there, but it will go from jet engine to reasonably quiet.

I can't pm yet but I've grown blockhead from Chimera seeds. I only had three ladies but I'd say if its that one put the lights on top. When I grow vertically I like to shoot for (4) 8-10 oz plants per 1kw bulb. I've never done little stadium style with lots of plants, but I've done the 1-2lb trees and I'd day my three phenos was a bad match for the styles I've tried. I like really long branches or super stretchy thick stem OG and diesel hybrid type plants for vert. I still veg lights on top though to bush em out. One may have worked but wasn't ideal. They were bushy and buds were close together with indica hybrid stretch. Sorry I know you were trying to avoid the thread highjack but I couldn't resist

 

[DunHav`nFun]

I`m back down at the beach till end of May , so there`s more time on the laptop to shoot the shit.....now....

Where I grew there was a rockwool manufacturing plant that made panels for soundproofing recording studios and media rooms , etc......so...

Cheapass and fit between studs with about r-50 or some such bullshit , so I guess sound board would work , but cavity insulations required also if you`re gonna re do the room....anyways....

Blockhead originally came from my old dirty south bros that brought the white and triangle kush to the plate yrs ago , and what I remember was as stated above medium sized bushes with flat crowned colas thus the name Blockhead , but what ya`ll speak of could be completey different dunno.......so....

Holler if I can help....DHF........

 

[Asslover]

So I take it that no one is exhausting through a carbon filter 24/7 while supplementing CO2 and maintaining desired levels while doing so...

No. Because it's a waste of co2 and kinda like a dog chasing it's own tail.
And plants DO produce co2. They do so at night.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Plants eat CO2 and shit Oxygen , thus how life on earth is possible , since humans eat Oxygen and shit Carbon Dioxide....symbiotic relationship huh guys ?.....now....

During the lights out process Asslover , CO2 levels AND humidity levels spike from the plants transpiring all the "excess" CO2 not metabolized during the lights on process , as well as all excess water vapor not used during nutrient uptake in the same time frame....

Maybe that`s where you came upon the idea that the plants produce CO2 during lights out , but in fact as I stated , the CO2 AND humidity spikes during lights out with sealed rooms is caused from what`s NOT used during lights on , unless scientific evidence shows otherwise that I`ve never had knowledge of....that`s why....

Most all commercial growers exhaust like a mofo during lights out in their so called sealed rooms to get rid of all excess CO2 and humidity that big operations with lg plant numbers produce....anyways....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[Mikell]

The main advantage of CO2 is to remove outdoor temp/RH from the equation. For someone to say it is unnecessary comes from a lack of knowledge of this point (TH specifically).

Consistency in all factors of growing is the key. Outside air requires one to adapt to the season.

Seed breeders, especially the EU type, are dinosaurs when it comes to change. Most of them still do things the way they were taught, decades before.

A minisplit is no more than what you call it. If large enough they are easily mistaken for heat pumps, which run all year. As mentioned, sound barriers reduce noise pollution.

Most of you need to read as much of the Vent 101 thread as you can. This is basic knowledge that will allow you to avoid sidetracking discussions with entry level questions.

Truth be told, NG is cheap enough the cost of your ventilated room may equal a badly sealed one running LP. Even so, I'd be tempted to save a few bucks and cut CO2 until/if she's closed up proper.

You can't go wrong with DHF's advice, he's an old timer with a young mind. If you think other wise, remind yourself that we are working and he's typing this from a beach (presumably with titties nearby).

Your patience is admirable, Schmavis. I would have told some here to fuck a gaggle of geese.

One thing not mentioned. Gas appliances are not intended to run under negative pressure. If the old man was awake I'd post a compelling reason why, I work with shit pipes and waterline myself. My guess would be increased potential for incomplete combustion (CO, ethylene) and greater heat.


DHF is correct (surprise surprise). Many dump humidity/CO2 at night and some even periodically draw fresh air (you are after all converting O to CO2 and H2O). The main reason for dehum in sealed is the water produced by burners/transpiration. NG and LP produce vastly different amounts. Google combustion formulas.

Mufflers are stupid easy to build. Leave the store boughts to the kids that can't do, or when time is more precious than expense.

Roxul (rockwool insulation) is the tits if you can't spray foam. The advantage of spray is insulation/vapour barrier in one, though God help you if you need to alter anything later.

 

[kin_dawg]

Hi. I've read some of the replys fwiw. Anyhow. Running Co2 and venting on a controller sound like old tech dished out in my old ed Rosenthal closet grower book. These days people have moved onto mini splits.
I've ran Co2 @1500ppm with a window banger AC, 2kwatt, didn't seem to waste that much Co2, and got a good crop.
I ran Co2 at 1500 ppm through a 2kwatt winter grow (ac not necessary) and got a good crop.
I've ran no Co2, no air exchange except leaving the door open 2kwatt and got a good crop.
Sorry I didn't keep any hard numbers but that's exactly what you need--data, first hand and see what is actually worth doing.

I then bought a dual hose Ac in the hopes it would conserve Co2 while cooling, it doesn't.
Co2 isn't something I'd want to be wasting by just dumping it out into the air, but that's me.

So I came to the conclusion that dosing Co2 at much more conservative level like 500 ppm is the best thing for me, thusly saving more and wasting less.
I'm running my dual hose right now as my only source of air exchange, it wasn't even on today and I took my ppm controller into the room to check ppm level and it was at 450 ppm. Seems good to me, but I'll be checking it periodically as the room fills more but I'm hopeful ppm levels will stay good.

I can make a comparison in the winter when I don't need to use the dual hose Ac, I will use the Co2 tank.
So if that made any sense^ in conclusion I'm not overly convinced of Co2 and I wouldn't waste it. Peace.

 

[Shmavis]

LH, no I have no experience with Blockhead. Have some on the way though. I’ve been interested in it for awhile. It’s practically a Canadian legend. And I remembered you were asking before. Looks like P8 can help!

Sorry I know you were trying to avoid the thread highjack but I couldn't resist

No harm no foul, guys. Glad that you can offer LH some advice with his Blockhead.



DHF, I was finding readings ranging from 2100 to 2300 ppm at the start of lights on from the excess CO2.

Mikell, I get the distinct impression that you are no Dipshit Know-Nothing... I am and have been doing some reading in the Vent 101 thread. I apologize for unnecessarily starting this thread if there’s a discussion in there about venting 24/7 with CO2 supplementation. If so, I haven’t run across it yet, it’s a big thread.

The natural gas cost incurred from running the generator is, to me, non-consequential. This is even more so the case if its benefits are relational. I mean to say that after all these years of running it, I’ve never opened my gas bill and thought, “holy shit that generator is costing me an arm and a leg.” I’m more concerned with what a mini would do to my electric bill.

The long and short of it, Mikell, is that you’d recommend the mini... is this correct? Kind of like, if you’re going to do it, do it right...

Clearly I need to read much more, but your comment about negative pressure and its effects on gas appliances brings up one of the questions I have about DHF’’s method... or maybe not specifically about what it’s doing to the appliances but more generally if there is some type of negative effect on the equilibrium of the house’s air exchange, independent of the room. To ask another way, would a negative pressure room with intake from another part of the house affect the overall balance of the house’s heating and cooling?

Really appreciate the discussion going on here.

 

[Shmavis]

I have a monitor in my grow box. It has 3 settings
Up to 1500 ppm. I go thru 5# co2 in 8-10 days.

2x2x5 ft box.

I have not done the math. But it seems to work fine at all the levels. Not enough experience yet to break it down.
I run 1 4.5 inch fan pulling thru a small carbon filter.
Fan runs 24/7.
It seems to me to be a no brainer. I have lots of ventilation outside the box,and I don't worry about ambient co2 Levels.

How far into flowering is it worth running CO2?

Levitationofme, thanks for sharing. So are you supplementing inside your box, or in the larger room outside of the box and then introducing it by way of negative pressure?

 

[Shmavis]

ill just throw a few things for you to think about, why not just pull air from another room through the lights then outside keeping the room sealed, using co2 on a controler, small ac if needed. also if noise is a concern get a hyperfan stealth its stupid quiet. it will at least be more efficient and stable

I purchased a window banger, haven’t done anything with it. There’s a very informative thread on here about how to vent it properly so that it can be ran without being in a window — adapt it to run in a windowless room. So your suggestion is not out of the question. It’s actually the way I initially planned to go. It’s fairly loud on its own though, and once it’s equipped with the appropriate fans it would just be that much louder... and then there’s more variables as to where to intake from and exhaust to...

 

[LastHurrah]

Looks like P8 can help!
Thanks P8... that was just the kind of information I needed on the BH.

Mikell, I get the distinct impression that you are no Dipshit Know-Nothing...
I get the same impression... Mikell absolutely knows what he's talking about... same with DHF. Much respect to both of you, and please keep imparting the wisdom. I know some of us really appreciate it!

...if there’s a discussion in there about venting 24/7 with CO2 supplementation, I haven’t run across it yet, it’s a big thread.
Agreed! That thing needs an index for sure, like most "stickys". It's daunting just looking at the number of pages... sheesh!

The long and short of it, Mikell, is that you’d recommend the mini... is this correct? Kind of like, if you’re going to do it, do it right...
I don't get that impression. I could be wrong, but it seems he's not in favor of sucking tanked or generated co2 out with the exhaust... which is wasteful. I do agree that "if you're gonna do it... do it right" (preferably "the first time")

I've read that no one should ever consider supplementing with co2 unless and until "all" other environmental conditions have been optimized. I take that to mean "run the room with exhaust" until all other things are dialed in. "Then" (and only then) can you appreciate the benefits of added co2... sooooooo

I'm using a wall a/c (not a mini-split) in a room that also has two 8" filtered passive intakes bringing in outside air. With my 8 inch exhaust on 24/7 and dialed down to acceptable volume, I am constantly pulling in fresh air across the room through the passive intakes, then exhausting it into the adjacent garage. The a/c is programmed to 72 degrees (or ???) so it will only come on when ambient temp's are higher than the setpoint.

I'll run my lights at night so the passive intake air will be cooler, but since the lights are on the a/c likely won't get the room down to the setpoint, but that's okay because...

I'll set it low enough for the room to stay around 80ish with lights on. Then when lights are off, it will have no probs pulling the temps down effectively giving me "cooler nights" (lights off).

I appreciate everyone's input on this ventilation plan, but specifically ask for Mikell and DHF's sage advice. What's that old saying? "When the student is ready... the teacher will appear". Hats off to the Teachers in this thread!

LH

 

[St. Phatty]

Never supplemented a grow area with CO2 in my life , but rather ran air exchange twice per minute with lung rooms as well as fresh air intakes via crawlspaces to the basements I grew in , all the while maintaining 750-900 ppms CO 2 constant in the air we breathe , well........

Rather where I breathed and grew in a major southern metro area with all manners of manufacturing plants and CO2 emissions out the ass , along with yes Mikell , all the neighborhoods I grew in were "right off the interstate" , so......there yas go.....but....

It`s been well proven over the yrs that pot`s either C-3 or C-4 category depending on which debate and argument you get into with minds waaaaay smarter than us , just ask em , but the plants don`t need over 750-900 ppm`s CO2 per lights

I remember reading Ed Rosenthal articles in High Times in the late 80's & early 90's. Or maybe it was at a book store in Berkeley.

The number that stuck in my head for what was considered CO2 supplementation 30-40 years ago ... 389 ppm.

 

[Shmavis]

...same with DHF. Much respect to both of you, and please keep imparting the wisdom. I know some of us really appreciate it!

...

I appreciate everyone's input on this ventilation plan, but specifically ask for Mikell and DHF's sage advice. What's that old saying? "When the student is ready... the teacher will appear". Hats off to the Teachers in this thread!

LH

:

Well said, LH.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

I remember reading Ed Rosenthal articles in High Times in the late 80's & early 90's. Or maybe it was at a book store in Berkeley.

The number that stuck in my head for what was considered CO2 supplementation 30-40 years ago ... 389 ppm.

CO2 supplementation is/was a fluke , an accident , that by chance and chance alone , was found by the earliest Hydroponic Veggie Greenhouse owners , most of which were either University and study based , or Corporate Produce companies ready to increase production and yr round product....here`s how it went....

After a certain period of time with enough seasonal harvests , they noticed that their beefiest and highest yielding crops were the winter crops that required propane heaters to maintain growable temps till springtime when the sun took over with massive air circulation the rest of the year......so....that said....and once proven to be a consistent tool....

A new star was born for the hydro whore industry to exploit and rape consumers by selling fucking propane heaters as "CO2 generators" that blast yields and finishing times outta the sky....horseshit , but I digress.....

I`ve got many many many old friends that swear by their sealed rooms with CO2 and do well , but it`s more of grower knowledge and experience controlling environment and watts per ft that mean more than anything IME....

Heath Robinson taught me well on 20 yrs ago to do everything possible to squeeze every gram outta each grow area until the Harvey gets no bigger , and THEN seal a room up with CO2 next to the one with major air exchange and do a side by side....results won`t be that inpressive...

PLUS more environmental bells and whistles needed for said sealed room compared to major air exchange , but I understand some folks aren`t able to utilize lung areas , so do the best you can do with what you have to work with....

I just try to help folks see alternatives that`re time tested and well proven , so Holler if I can help , but it ain`t rocket science , just getting in there and doin it....sure you`ll fuck up , but knowin what to do to fix it `s worth more than anything , so get some runs under yer belt....it only gets easier as you go IF you pay attention....anyways....

Good luck....DHF.........

 

[Shmavis]

Running Co2 and venting on a controller sound like old tech dished out in my old ed Rosenthal closet grower book. These days people have moved onto mini splits.

Yep, it’s fair to say that I fell into complacency. I have not kept up with industry standards. I did read lots of the ‘bibles’ out there in the early 2000s . And running the way I have been is a conglomeration of the info gathered from them. Around that timeframe I was grabbing everything cannabis related from newsgroups. There were lots of videos and PDFs of books and papers, etc. to be found there.

Just some thoughts that make me go hmmm....

To ‘dial-in’ a room seems to be a bit of a misnomer, to me. This is something I struggled with years ago before adding CO2. How do we accurately gauge whether our room is dialed-in? It’s dialed-in, in relation to what? Specific strains that one keeps as mothers? I realize that if you keep mothers and run clones, then there exists data to evaluate, from which you can then attempt to modify aspects to achieve greater results. Thereby dialing-in a strain.

But what of those of us — I imagine what I’m about to say is going to be cringe worthy to some, if not most — who don’t repeatedly run the same strain(s), i.e., don’t keep mothers? The greatest thrill for me has always been getting beans, making beans, and popping beans to see what may come. I’ve never kept mother plants. The closest I came was when I was running aero, I would select what I referred to as a donor plant. I like to try different strains. So if I have my room dialed-in to achieve the best possible results for, let’s say, G-SUS, a short compact indica, is this favorable environment going to be equally favorable for FD’s Thai-tanic, when I pop them? We all know that different strains prefer different environments... a humidity level that one strain loves may be the limiting factor for another... or temp preference, or...

Could anyone point to some nice do-it-yourself tutorials for duct muffler/silencer? (I only found one using the search feature and I’d like to check out a few different methods).

Have a great weekend, everyone!