CMH vs LED vs HPS

[snakedope]

You don't get it, I'm not disputing the fact that plants under intense sources, hid or LEDs, need more water/nutrition, but why under LEDs they need more calcium ?
The question for you was did you see this uptake of calcium in ur hid grows aswell ? Beside the natural more light more feed in general.

 

[Crooked8]

You don't get it, I'm not disputing the fact that plants under intense sources, hid or LEDs, need more water/nutrition, but why under LEDs they need more calcium ?
The question for you was did you see this uptake of calcium in ur hid grows aswell ? Beside the natural more light more feed in general.

Maybe i wasnt clear earlier, they dont need more ca, they need more feed in general. People mistake this imo. By moving to led i didnt need more ca alone, just higher ec in general. And not by a lot, basically a direct relation to the ppfd increase. About 20% higher ec. I never used to go above 2.0 now ill go to 2.4. So not just higher ca, higher everything. People add more cal mag and are fixing a piece of the puzzle and see improvement and think thats it.

 

[OG_NoMan]

@snakedope
Do you grow? You have no pics, no journals, no threads, just the same posting about leds over and over. Honestly I am surprised people still respond to ya. I look forward to seeing your hid, cmh, or led grow. Good luck

 

[JKD]

I reckon snakedope has 30,000 hps fixtures he’s trying to sell

 

[kro-magnon]

Maybe it's not always possible, but reducing heat loss is also an option. Leds produce about 2/3 of the heat HID does so it's not really that much less. It's just much easier to vent out the heat.

The Lumatek LED I have does not make this kind of heat, it's lower than 2/3 of HPS at 100%

 

[Hammerhead]

I only needed to boost cal/mg by a small amount.. I use a soilless/happyfrog medium. I don't need super high EC.. I went from 1.1 to 1.3 with 60oz of cal/mg in 55 gallon mix. I'm a minimalist grower.. Nothing else is used in flower.

The only other additive I use is Silica and microbes in veg..

 

[Ca++]

Well, I'm back on mixed lighting. I only did one side by side HID vs LED in the same room, and while the HID was typical, the LED did great. After going full LED I didn't see such a result again, but it was a move in location also. Now, another location, mixing again, and the moment I have the HID added to the LED, I feel my past conversion to the new light, could of been blinded faith.

It's not scientific enough testing to be in any way conclusive. However, If I just talk like a fool, I'm saying HID was too hot, and LED too cold. HID may only need to be 20-25% of the lighting load, but it just has something. I don't think it's even the light. I think it's better transpiration. The better Ca uptake that brings. Things just take on a new shape. More dominant spears, and less screen or green you might say.


It's proving very difficult to argue with, and I really am critical with my analytics. I can't join all the dots, but the circumstantial evidence is compelling.

 

[exoticrobotic]

My experience is very similar to yours @Ca++ i bought leds to deal with extreme summer temps.

I ran cmh plus leds for one run.

The plants did great that were under the mix of lights, not so much the ones directly under leds but they were haze hybrids so i thought more finicky. They looked like shit but stayed squat and yielded rather nicely. The high was slightly above average but i had expected more from those afghan hazes.

The high of the plant in the middle of the box though- a Kryptonite ogk abusive x bubba was amazing. It received light from both the cmh and led array as it was equidistance from both lights.
I was most happy about that plant. I'd had many sleepless nights waiting for those seeds to drop


The high of that 1 kryptonite plant caused me to reveg it, grow it as a mother, clone it and lay down another 350 quid on my second Maxibright 300w led array.

I then filled the room with the clones under two maxibright led arrays 600w in total.

At harvest time, i got a great yield but when i smoked the buds, it didnt have the same taste or high as before.

It made me question my notes and wonder whether i had messed up and taken the wrong plant as a mother.

Unfortunately i lost that mother to spider mites so couldnt test it further.

I'm back to hps and cmh.

I haven't written off leds entirely.

 

[Dr.Mantis]

My past experience is only under led, and the quality has been very good imo. However, I’m flowering my first run under Cmh now and besides some light burn I’m very happy. The plants seem to love it. Smell is much stronger at this point in flowering from what I’m used to. I think the broader spectrum and heat with Cmh really helps the plants chug whatever you feed them. I’m getting “waxy” leaves on a few plants under Cmh, which I take as an indicator of lipid accumulation.

Too early to call it, but so far I really dig
Led for veg and Cmh for flower.

 

[chilliwilli]

View attachment 18836741
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Anyway, I'm just saying in any case it doesn't matter led or hid more photons is more, if your panel totals at 110k lm and a hid is 160 so how are you creating more light with your led ? Your not, your just spreading it
But that's not what that's about, the main thing is if a plant is under intense lighting it should uptake more, but we never saw such a need for calcium in HIDs ! That's the point.

Your graph only shows hps and no led so where do u see a comparison?
Oh and when u read your graph to get to the 1000μmoles u need the 1000w hps 30inch over the canopy, good luck with that.

 

[Crooked8]

Your graph only shows hps and no led so where do u see a comparison?
Oh and when u read your graph to get to the 1000μmoles u need the 1000w hps 30inch over the canopy, good luck with that.

Yup, with de 1000w getting within 4-5 ft is really pushing it.

 

[snakedope]

@snakedope
Do you grow? You have no pics, no journals, no threads, just the same posting about leds over and over. Honestly I am surprised people still respond to ya. I look forward to seeing your hid, cmh, or led grow. Good luck

I'll do a journal soon, under HPS.
And do be surprised, people are eager to learn and share, if you don't have anything to contribute, please just relax and take notes

I reckon snakedope has 30,000 hps fixtures he’s trying to sell

Haha I'm trying to buy them not sell them silly

Your graph only shows hps and no led so where do u see a comparison?
Oh and when u read your graph to get to the 1000μmoles u need the 1000w hps 30inch over the canopy, good luck with that.

Crooked8 is trying to compare a plant under LEDs to a plant under HIDs, so under the LEDs he claim they get 1000 ppfd and I claim that under 600 or 1000w hid they get more then 2500 ppfd right underneath and even more depending on the height.
The LEDs just spread those ppfd numbers better, but for the sake of nutrition uptake the example is the same
Crooked8 gave a good explanation as to why people give more cal mag, I will accept it as it's makes sense to me.

 

[snakedope]

Yup, with de 1000w getting within 4-5 ft is really pushing it.

In my last big op grow I placed 2 double ended 1k side by side
Height from the plants was 30-40 cm
All was good, I had an ac inside that room.
4-5 ft... Never went to those heights.

 

[greyfader]

In my last big op grow I placed 2 double ended 1k side by side
Height from the plants was 30-40 cm
All was good, I had an ac inside that room.
4-5 ft... Never went to those heights.

no, you did not! i used sunlight supply ac/de fixtures with philips green power bulbs in my facility in oregon.

the minimum work plane height is 30" or 76.2 cm. and that's with the glass on. i could not run them with the glass off because of the downward projected radiant heat.

i can tell you for sure that you would have burnt your plants at 30-40 cm.

i bought 49 of these fixtures used slightly by people who thought they could run them in a room with 8' ceilings. they sold them practically new because they were burning their plants.

in the photo below you will see what that 30" work plane looks like.

 

[snakedope]

if you couldn't then that must mean no one can haha
Please don't compare what u did to what I did, I used xxxxl reflectors with philips 400v 1000w bulbs and yes they were indeed 30-40 cm from the plants, I had a 2.5hp ac in that room, it was constantly in the 28-30c range
You have reg reflectors, they throw a lot of heat downward, mine was more spreading the light.

 

[kro-magnon]

no, you did not! i used sunlight supply ac/de fixtures with philips green power bulbs in my facility in oregon.

the minimum work plane height is 30" or 76.2 cm. and that's with the glass on. i could not run them with the glass off because of the downward projected radiant heat.

i can tell you for sure that you would have burnt your plants at 30-40 cm.

i bought 49 of these fixtures used slightly by people who thought they could run them in a room with 8' ceilings. they sold them practically new because they were burning their plants.

in the photo below you will see what that 30" work plane looks like.

Don't bother to answer to this clown he has no idea what he's talking about and most of his posts are just lies. He obviously never used 1000w DE HPS at 30/40cm from the canopy, that's just impossible.

 

[Rgd]

had my own leds made a decade ago..I still use them..so ido have led experience

they grow good weed ...they veg like mofo's

using 600w instead of 1kw hps sounds good..but it’s not like the leds have ruled..

I admit to not having reds or uv...and that could help

now using a few hps now to see how I like them again..

recently two very skeptical people..online alaskan buddy as well as one ny guy bought some of the new leds

and both say hps did not compare to the new led units

 

[Cerathule]

@snakedope, you still don't get that you are just measuring the flux with PPFD and since it's all emitted from a single bulb this can get really high the closer the quantummeter is placed towards the lamp.

but that's not measuring the total amount of photons that is emitted inside the growroom, or the plant canopy. LED emits more PAR light, period!

you are right the reflector does have an impact, the spreaders loose way more light than the closed hoods. but your statement of 30cm (~11 inch) if you go back to your chart - is off the scale, that is beyond 300% of sunlight. and then you want to give that 18/6 lol I've seen that the plants can adapt to this if leaves are grown under it but growth will be retarded due to the massive overlighting causing damage to the photosynthetic apparatus.

 

[snakedope]

Don't bother to answer to this clown he has no idea what he's talking about and most of his posts are just lies. He obviously never used 1000w DE HPS at 30/40cm from the canopy, that's just impossible.

Everyone think they know everything, that's your biggest downfall.
You tried it ?

@snakedope, you still don't get that you are just measuring the flux with PPFD and since it's all emitted from a single bulb this can get really high the closer the quantummeter is placed towards the lamp.

So ? That means the closer a plant gets to this point it will grow more intense, and demend more, we established that and agreed on this fact, no matter led or hid, we tried to understand why plants under led show a lot of calcium hairs.

but that's not measuring the total amount of photons that is emitted inside the growroom, or the plant canopy. LED emits more PAR light, period!

I agree, it does, as a standalone tech.
We can only measure total arrays against single source bulbs, led will always win when you total the array up.

you are right the reflector does have an impact, the spreaders loose way more light than the closed hoods. but your statement of 30cm (~11 inch) if you go back to your chart - is off the scale, that is beyond 300% of sunlight. and then you want to give that 18/6 lol I've seen that the plants can adapt to this if leaves are grown under it but growth will be retarded due to the massive overlighting causing damage to the photosynthetic apparatus.

Mine was 30-40 cm, with big ass wide reflectors you can get closer, I don't think I was able to do the same with normal hoods like Gary showed. I had a big ac in that room and it was only 2 x 1000w lights, not 10 unites, think reasonable.
it was 12/12 not 18/6 so don't speculate.
i had 25 big ass plants in that room, larry og, grew like crazy.

 

[snakedope]

Also don't forget we measure from the reflectors start, not the bulb, so it's not that close as you think in terms of heat, it's like a parabolic at those sizes, the heat dissipate all over not just downward, and with a big ac just 2 ft behind it, it was nice.