CMH vs LED vs HPS

[Crooked8]

When i grew in a heavily insulated room with no temperature/humidity issues although i saw marked improvement in yield with leds vs cmh, the quality was not comparable.

Not sure whether this could be related to the lights originally used in selecting and developing the strain as this was likely hid or the sun.

I was actually pleasantly surprised how well they flowered under the leds. i got well over 1 gpw with the leds where i got 0.7 with the cmh. I still had the brown spotting under leds but it didnt seem to bother the plants.

It was when i came to smoke them that i realised something was up.

You all carry on with the leds you have dialled in but I'll be sticking to cmh.

To each their own. Those brown spots were necrosis showcasing an underlying issue. You could have seen vastly improved product and yield had you corrected this. It sounds like the typical issue I see. You had a lambo motor in a honda with bald tires. Your environment wasnt in check at all if youre only measuring temp and rh. You had no idea how many photons you were pouring on and it sounds like you didnt supplement co2. So, like almost everyone else I see, you didnt even give it a fair shot. This is why you will stick to cmh, because youve had success because of their radiant heat. You havent seen your own potential.

 

[exoticrobotic]

You had a lambo motor in a honda with bald tires

Felt more like a ford fiesta

 

[Crooked8]

Felt more like a ford fiesta

But hey even without the lambo suspension and new tires you hit 1gpw, not too shabby all things considered but you could have more than doubled it. Cheers

 

[exoticrobotic]

But hey even without the lambo suspension and new tires you hit 1gpw, not too shabby all things considered but you could have more than doubled it. Cheers

I got about 1.2 gpw with the leds
I got about 0.7 gpw with the cmh.

But i am smoking the led bud at more than double the rate i smoked the cmh bud and dont feel as deeply high

 

[Crooked8]

I got about 1.2 gpw with the leds
I got about 0.7 gpw with the cmh.

But i am smoking the led bud at more than double the rate i smoked the cmh bud and dont feel as deeply high

There are a number of factors at play here and id bet your plants didnt ripen at the same rate as the cmh due to your low temps and rh.

 

[Broggemann]

So whats your take on bad resin quality, nutrition wise?

150-125-377-160-75

Mn ~1ppm.
Iron ~3ppm.

Thats my current feeding schedule, VPD in check, PPFD 600-850, co2 slighly above ambient (~600).
Dryback around 25% at night.
Not enough of something?

 

[exoticrobotic]

There are a number of factors at play here and id bet your plants didnt ripen at the same rate as the cmh due to your low temps and rh.

The temps and rh were the same in that environment, It was a heavily insulated room within a room.

There was an issue with ripening of the resin glands with leds where the heads were smaller and the transition from clear to milky to amber didnt seem to happen like it does under cmh. It was like it stalled in between clear and milky.

But even from early flowering the resins were tackier under cmh and terpenes more pronounced and varied.

This depth was reflected in the high.

 

[Crooked8]

So whats your take on bad resin quality, nutrition wise?

150-125-377-160-75

Mn ~1ppm.
Iron ~3ppm.

Thats my current feeding schedule, VPD in check, PPFD 600-850, co2 slighly above ambient (~600).
Dryback around 25% at night.
Not enough of something?

Is this cannabinoid development issue potentially genetic related or have you run the same strain under hps or cmh with success?

Your ppfd hitting 850 means you arent supplementing enough co2.

I think you could dryback more and feed more if you supplement additional co2.

 

[Cactus Squatter]

Please elaborate what took getting used to with leds?

This is my experience too with the mixed white spectrum leds which appear to my eye as more cool white in colour.

Constantly unhappy sick looking plants with rust spots, unnatural purpling, brown and yellow necrotic edges.

Plants showing enhanced purpling. These previously unseen extra anthocyanins a clear indication the plants are under stress. All ultimately translating to a plant that is less able to express its full and true potential with respect to terpenes and cannabinoids.



Wait 15 weeks and smoke it. It's great really . I hope it still gets you high and you dont end up chain smoking chasing that missing hid buzz like i'm doing.

Dont get me wrong. led can grow large buds that get you high but if you have been smoking for 30 years and growing for that time you will discern a difference.

Where's the wow with led bud?

It's generally in the photo not the high...

It has already been elaborated what is different about growing under LED/ High PPFD. Go back and read a few posts.
If you fail again to understand what people have been saying about it, that’s on you, though you’ve basically made it clear you and a few others have made up your minds on LED based on zero facts so I’m not sure what the point of even responding to you really is.

As far as continually chasing a high, again that is most likely because commercial weed isn’t grown to full ripeness, it is grown to meet a time table. Commercial strains are about time to market, bag appeal and smell more than the high. It has nothing to do with the lights and everything to do with cheapest/fastest turn around for the $.
You simply can’t compare quality of commercial stuff to homegrown.

 

[Hammerhead]

These are LED..

 

[RobFromTX]

There is a TON to unpack here. Ill do my best but it will be rather difficult to summarize years of effort into this post.

First, with LED, you get what you give. You cannot buy a Fohse high wattage insane Ppfd output fixture and run it in a 4x4 tent with no co2 enrichment and feed 1.5ec. Your plants will suffer immediately.

Here is something most growers dont seem to know, if you plan to exceed 600ppfd without co2 enrichment you are wasting your money. Plants cannot benefit from higher ppfd without supplementation of co2. This is not my opinion, this is science. Your plants will still grow and mature at a standard pace but without the potential yield and growth rates being seen.

If youre running LED with an average ppfd of 900-1000+ your feed will need to reflect this. In the most dialed 1000 w De HPS room ive run we struggled to average above 800 ppfd. This was swapping ballasts annualy with bulb swaps every 3rd turn. With agrobar leds, we average 1100+ ppfd and this required more feed, about 15-18% more. We didnt understand this early on and simply added “more calmag” and expected it to all be fine, “our friends” “our buddies” told us so….. No, plants went P and K deficient and acidified their root zone seeking more P(more available at lower ph and its mobile unlike calcium, common mistake) which in turn inevitably causes toxicity of Manganese(rapidly absorbed at low ph, the reason for inner veinal necrotic symptoms). *this is exactly what i see other new led growers experiencing often and sounds identical to your issues, early purpling isnt all about the plant producing more anthocyanin it is phosphorous deficiency. This is accompanied by yellowing and inner veinal necrosis. We needed to up ALL levels of feed for the increase in photons and we also benefitted from increasing co2 to 1100ppm.(previously with hps we saw little benefit to exceeding 900-1000ppm). You cannot run a Lamborghini motor in a honda civic body with bald tires, this is the single most important lesson I can break down when it comes to LEDs.

If you come in here talking shit on LEDs, but you havent put in the work to provide a top tier environment and the necessary time, your words are those of a quitter and someone who didnt research everything necessary. You've denied yourself the best quality and quantity possible due to your own complacency.

I was that person. I hated on LEDs for a long time. Im very glad I came around.

View attachment 18811518

Nice buds. Thats some serious LST going on there

 

[zachrockbadenof]

These are LED..
View attachment 18811617 View attachment 18811615 View attachment 18811616

did u pour a bag of domino's ... maybe two over these buds??? .... nice work indeed

 

[Hammerhead]

The genetics we grow matters most in how good the quality will be. It's up to us to grow them well to see their best expressions.

 

[Gooseman23]

The genetics we grow matters most in how good the quality will be. It's up to us to grow them well to see their best expressions.

Truth! good genetics and experience go a long way.

 

[GoatCheese]

This is my experience too with the mixed white spectrum leds which appear to my eye as more cool white in colour.

Constantly unhappy sick looking plants with rust spots, unnatural purpling, brown and yellow necrotic edges.

Plants showing enhanced purpling. These previously unseen extra anthocyanins a clear indication the plants are under stress. All ultimately translating to a plant that is less able to express its full and true potential with respect to terpenes and cannabinoids.

Friend ... you have clearly stressed the shit out of your plants – This is grower error - but then you keep stating in generalizing terms, page after page, that led lights aren’t good.

...I’m sure you see the issue i’m having with this.

How about you put led lights down after you can actually grow a green healthy plant with one - many people seem to be able to.


Buy a proper led light for blooming – use your old low chip number led light for vegging plants , cause that’s all it’s good for, like i already told you pages a go – and try again. Buy a proper led light, learn how to use it and then we will continue this chat. Go buy a 300 watter Mars Hydro light, set of Cree cobs or what ever – a light with a dimmer on it.

This is just bro-science horseshit until you have actually had a proper try with a proper light.

 

[Boo1965]

LED vs HID is similar to the vacuum tube vs solid state transfer back in the 60s. Everybody liked solid state at first for the light weight and less heat, less parts and quickness. But later on people realized that vacuum tube technology was far superior quality than the new solid state technology. Heck all of my guitar amps still use vacuum tubes. An ancient technology that solid state just cannot touch to this day. For budding I will stick with my old HPS technology.

Made my mind up, stick with what I know, hps. Thanks

 

[snakedope]

Yeah exoticrobotic just buy a good led fixture what are ya waiting for ? The best bud is just 1000$ away lol
Ah but don't forget you need to waste a year adjusting to it and learning how to use this superior fixture
LEDs is like - you need to take every aspect of your grow to the maximum in order to over come the short comings of your light arrays,
What ? Your bud lame ? Your rh was 40 instead of 50, ahh wait your temps was 27.2c and it should've been 27.6c, now that explains why all your buds are lame broo
Go buy another led fixture and try again

 

[Cerathule]

A photon is a photon and a plant can't even discriminate from which source it was taken in. Nor could any lamp do away overfertilization. People are putting too much emphasis on what light actually can influence.

HPS = 1,2g/W
LED = 2g/W
(on average)

 

[Crooked8]

Yeah exoticrobotic just buy a good led fixture what are ya waiting for ? The best bud is just 1000$ away lol
Ah but don't forget you need to waste a year adjusting to it and learning how to use this superior fixture
LEDs is like - you need to take every aspect of your grow to the maximum in order to over come the short comings of your light arrays,
What ? Your bud lame ? Your rh was 40 instead of 50, ahh wait your temps was 27.2c and it should've been 27.6c, now that explains why all your buds are lame broo
Go buy another led fixture and try again

If you buy an hps light for 200$ swap an 80$ bulb 3x a year were at 440$. There are plenty of quality leds around 6-800$. And you wont need to replace a thing for 5+ years, do the math. Its a no brainer long term, oh not to mention once youve gotten even halfway decent with them youll see way higher yield and quality for a lower cost to produce.

If you dont have the ability to adjust your temp and rh youre doing it wrong doesnt matter if you have hps, cmh or led.

 

[snakedope]

HPS - 1.2g/W of actually smokable dope
LED - 2g/W of boof.

If you buy an hps light for 200$ swap an 80$ bulb 3x a year were at 440$. There are plenty of quality leds around 6-800$. And you wont need to replace a thing for 5+ years, do the math. Its a no brainer long term, oh not to mention once youve gotten even halfway decent with them youll see way higher yield and quality for a lower cost to produce.

If you dont have the ability to adjust your temp and rh youre doing it wrong doesnt matter if you have hps, cmh or led.

I don't know what are u talking about, but my ballast / reflector / bulb is costing me on avg 90 usd for the whole setup if you buy complete, each bulb cost me 30-50 usd when I replace, and I replace 2 a year maybe, and those are philips bulbs not chinese ones, if I want to go the china route with bulbs and ballasts then growing will prob be cheaper for me then buying pistachios at the market
Although I saw very good results with those chinese bulbs don't doubt it

For any beginners, HIDs are still the best option out there money wise and dummy proof wise, hang it and forget about it.
Those that start to play with heights and tent size will suffer from over heating eventually, but if you do it the sensible way, like putting a 600 in a 1.2x1.2 or a 400 in a 80 x 80 and you don't live in the sahara desert you should be fine with the smallest exhaust vent and minimum care.
Like you all say, it's just weed huh ? applying all this science (which in reality don't match or add up to all the hype) is what matters...
No, what matters is what we see hear taste feel heal medicate etc.