Chitosan

[shaggyballs]

you my friend are a rock star.. your knowledge is ridiculous!! ( and I don't say this often.. maybe never )


I'm going to go through all your posts to super adsorb all your knowledge, or you can keep posting, and people will keep learning

THANK YOU..

That is what I did, be prepared to study hard....sometimes it gets hard for me to keep up...LOL
Best of luck.....it is kinda like jogging with a young bruce jenner
shag

 

[Only Ornamental]

you my friend are a rock star.. your knowledge is ridiculous!! ( and I don't say this often.. maybe never )

I'm going to go through all your posts to super adsorb all your knowledge, or you can keep posting, and people will keep learning

THANK YOU..

You're welcome, all of you!
Satisfied and grateful folks like you are the reason I'm typing my fingers sore; being useful and appreciated feels good & warms the heart!
Happy X-Mas to you all!

 

[BubbaBear]

You're welcome, all of you!
Satisfied and grateful folks like you are the reason I'm typing my fingers sore; being useful and appreciated feels good & warms the heart!
Happy X-Mas to you all!

Happy Holidays OO !!!

Now on with the education lol.

What can you share about using chitosan as a bio pesticide?

CC mentioned earlier in this thread(post#3) on how the chitinase enzyme in chitosan kills mite eggs, are you familiar with this? Do you still apply the chitosan at 200ppm to use it as a bio pesticide? How long does the chitinase enzyme stay active for? How ofter should we reapply?

And also...
Im pretty sure two of the main actives in Canna Boost is chitosan oligo and triacantanol, are you familiar with a synergy with these two ingredients?

Thanks again for sharing buddy

 

[green thumbs]

@BubbaBear, i think your onto something about canna boost containing both of those ingredients.

 

[BubbaBear]

@BubbaBear, i think your onto something about canna boost containing both of those ingredients.

Yeah man I think Canna has admitted to having triacontanol in there and this is from the brochure....
How does CANNABOOST work?

The "oligosaccharin" products that make up CANNABOOST act as triggers for the plant cells. They trigger the heightened metabolic processes and have been shown to increase activities including energy production, photosynthesis, metabolite production, gene activation, and so forth. The remaining components in the BOOST serve to enhance and support these activities including providing certain levels of important nutrients. In the end, there is no molasses remaining. It has been rendered into many components through modern natural and organic chemistry. These, together with the trace elements and other remaining components that are contained within CANNABOOST, directly interact with a plant cells’ metabolism process. CANNABOOST is an all natural carbohydrate based product but contains little sugar and zero added plant hormones....


Well what oligosaccaride product is know to enhance plant growth and quality?
Chitosan oligosaccaride

 

[Only Ornamental]

From a theoretical point of view, I'm familiar with chitinase .
Usually, chitinase is NOT used to manufacture chitosan (apart from some high grade lab stuff) and if it's used, it's no more active in the chitosan or it would further degrade it.
Chitinase is an enzyme that degrades chitin, the main constituent of arthropod exoskeletons and eggshells. It is one of the players in plant immunity and gets secreted once the plant is under attack. Apart from applying chitosan on your plants in the usual way, there's no special treatment for chitinase induction one needed .

Regarding chitosan and triacontanol: They are partially antagonistic. One boosts plant immunity and hence shunts growth (nice thing about chitosan is, that it does so only slightly), the other is a growth stimulant and therefore prevents plants from 'wasting' energy on defence. Triacontanol partially reverses jasmonic acid and ABA mediated effects (remember, these two are key players in chitosan induced plant immunity) and down-regulates stress and wounding related proteins (the one that protect the plant).
That said, mixing them sounds like using $$ bills to wipe your A. But bear in mind, I have no personal experience with such a mix .

 

[Only Ornamental]

Yeah man I think Canna has admitted to having triacontanol in there and this is from the brochure....
How does CANNABOOST work?

The "oligosaccharin" .... CANNABOOST is an all natural carbohydrate based product but contains little sugar and zero added plant hormones....

Well what oligosaccaride product is know to enhance plant growth and quality?
Chitosan oligosaccaride

They admit to not having added plant hormones such as triacontanol and their oligosaccharides can be a lot more than chitosan, for example maltose, starch, pectin etc.
IF they are honest and don't try to cover something up, then their brochure said that there is ZERO chitosan and ZERO triacontanol inside.

And nope, chitosan oligosaccharide is not known for enhancing plant growth but plant health. In a field environment, this indirectly leads to better growth due reduced diseases and pests and a higher stress tolerance. I wouldn't know anything about "increase activities including energy production, photosynthesis..." with regard to chitosan. The other claims are very vague, are true for many things and can lead to completely opposite effects .

EDIT:
Check out THIS PUBLICATION about seaweed oligosaccharides and plant growth. I'd say they have kelp extract in there .

 

[BubbaBear]

Right on OO, thanks for breaking down the science. It sounds like chitosan is a pretty amazing substance as is, im not going to try to doctor it up with anything.

I know from other threads your petty well versed in enzymes. Is there a specific enzyme we can apply to our plants that will kill mite eggs and or mites?

 

[Only Ornamental]

Suppose there is but I don't know much about what's really commercially available.
I'm more of a lab geek/nerd (is there a difference between the two?). You wouldn't want to buy a few mg of some cool enzyme for a hundred bucks (if it's a cheap one) just so that you can spray the lower leaves of one of your plants one time, now would you?

Why not use saponins or lecithin? These are natural 'soaps'. Besides soaps being rather unhealthy for arthropods, the former has additional insecticidal activities and the latter often contains residual oil which also helps against the lil bastards.
You could buy saponin in pure form, use yucca extracts (pretty hyped in the states), or any other of dozen saponin rich plants and brew a tea with them. I use quillaja (soap tree) bark and soy lecithin, works like a charm . Okay, doesn't kill 100% but it's very mild and reduces enough so that the plants can handle the few critters on their own (besides, a few ones also trigger plant immunity by natural means and hence increase the goodies ) . That might not be an option for commercial growers or such with big grow rooms but is fairly well manageable in my case...

 

[BubbaBear]

Interesting I've never heard of soy lecithin being used as a pesticide. Im always looking for no toxic pesticides, I love OG Biowar foliar pack it makes your plants healthier and kills pests.

 

[Only Ornamental]

If you want to kill two birds with one stone: Go with yucca, that one also contains oligosaccharides know to induce plant growth . Lecithin is a bit of a bitch to work with...

 

[BubbaBear]

They admit to not having added plant hormones such as triacontanol and their oligosaccharides can be a lot more than chitosan, for example maltose, starch, pectin etc.
IF they are honest and don't try to cover something up, then their brochure said that there is ZERO chitosan and ZERO triacontanol inside.

And nope, chitosan oligosaccharide is not known for enhancing plant growth but plant health. In a field environment, this indirectly leads to better growth due reduced diseases and pests and a higher stress tolerance. I wouldn't know anything about "increase activities including energy production, photosynthesis..." with regard to chitosan. The other claims are very vague, are true for many things and can lead to completely opposite effects .

EDIT:
Check out THIS PUBLICATION about seaweed oligosaccharides and plant growth. I'd say they have kelp extract in there .

Interesting read on the seaweed oligosaccharides, have you tried using it?
Are there any products that contain it?

 

[Only Ornamental]

Interesting read on the seaweed oligosaccharides, have you tried using it?
Are there any products that contain it?

I use a home-brewed seaweed extract. Cause I don't break the polysaccharides down into oligos, likely there's not much effect to be expected in this regard. Still, seaweed seems beneficial (no control though)...

Products? Dunno... most seaweed and kelp extracts are made using a basic (high pH) workup/extraction. This breaks down proteins quite nicely, keeps many plant hormones intact, but does not break the polysaccharides down. For that, an acidic workup (or irradiation, IIRC they use a cobalt isotope for that) would be needed. That said, common kelp extracts won't do the trick and it's seldom indicated on the product if they used a neutral, acidic, or basic extraction technique.

You could try it using kitchen chemistry: 1 M HCl (if you have a reflux refrigerator) or 0.5 M sulfuric acid (phosphoric acid should work too but usually isn't used for acid catalysed hydrolysis) and roughly 1/10 of seaweed per volume (water). Heat to ~80°C (just below boiling point) for an hour should greatly break down the stuff in small pieces (also the proteins into amino acids) but not too small ones. Cool down, filter (cotton or coffee filter) and then use potassium hydroxide, carbonate, or hydrogencarbonate to neutralise (pH 6-7) the brew. KOH works fastest whereas the hydrogencarbonate (carbonate too but not as handy) makes bubbles (carbon dioxide) and foam (a lot!) as long as there's still free acid present; no need to check pH, just add as long as it bubbles, a slight excess won't hurt either .
You shouldn't forget that this solution will contain 1 M potassium salt of the corresponding acid -> take that into account when calculating your fertiliser . Need help with the gram-litre-%-mol-ppm calculations? Just ask .

 

[BubbaBear]

I use a home-brewed seaweed extract. Cause I don't break the polysaccharides down into oligos, likely there's not much effect to be expected in this regard. Still, seaweed seems beneficial (no control though)...

Products? Dunno... most seaweed and kelp extracts are made using a basic (high pH) workup/extraction. This breaks down proteins quite nicely, keeps many plant hormones intact, but does not break the polysaccharides down. For that, an acidic workup (or irradiation, IIRC they use a cobalt isotope for that) would be needed. That said, common kelp extracts won't do the trick and it's seldom indicated on the product if they used a neutral, acidic, or basic extraction technique.

You could try it using kitchen chemistry: 1 M HCl (if you have a reflux refrigerator) or 0.5 M sulfuric acid (phosphoric acid should work too but usually isn't used for acid catalysed hydrolysis) and roughly 1/10 of seaweed per volume (water). Heat to ~80°C (just below boiling point) for an hour should greatly break down the stuff in small pieces (also the proteins into amino acids) but not too small ones. Cool down, filter (cotton or coffee filter) and then use potassium hydroxide, carbonate, or hydrogencarbonate to neutralise (pH 6-7) the brew. KOH works fastest whereas the hydrogencarbonate (carbonate too but not as handy) makes bubbles (carbon dioxide) and foam (a lot!) as long as there's still free acid present; no need to check pH, just add as long as it bubbles, a slight excess won't hurt either .
You shouldn't forget that this solution will contain 1 M potassium salt of the corresponding acid -> take that into account when calculating your fertiliser . Need help with the gram-litre-%-mol-ppm calculations? Just ask .

Interesting and definitely a bit beyond me i'd have to call Heisenberg to help me with that, we've discussed kelp extracts being used as flower hardener in other threads, theres a product called G10 that claims its made with kelp extracts.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Interesting and definitely a bit beyond me i'd have to call Heisenberg to help me with that, we've discussed kelp extracts being used as flower hardener in other threads, theres a product called G10 that claims its made with kelp extracts.

Why Heisenberg? He's a quantum physicist and pretty much dead IIRC... Hence, not much use form him. Me on the other hand am a pharmacist with a flair for organic chemistry and I'm quite alive too . Given the proper motivation, I might be compelled giving private household chemistry lessons .

There's more than one product with kelp inside. As it's quite inexpensive there's no need to only 'claim' it being added.

But enough of that! You're right, this goes way too far off topic to be discussed here... on the other hand, chitosan can be synthesised in a similar manner using the shells of your feast day shrimps or lobster.

 

[BubbaBear]

Haaa thats right Heisenberg does lack in the organic chemistry department lol. Your a good guy to have in my corner thats for sure. I appreciate all the info you've given me, you've saved me a lot of time in looking stuff up and experimenting, fuck google I got OO lol.

 

[Cheeznkush]

So fucking interesting!

 

[shaggyballs]

This stuff is crazy, you can make some kinda skin out of it too.
I read somewhere it can be used in a persons eye for different reasons.
Just sayin'......cool stuff!

 

[habeeb]

Yeah man I think Canna has admitted to having triacontanol in there and this is from the brochure....
How does CANNABOOST work?

The "oligosaccharin" products that make up CANNABOOST act as triggers for the plant cells. They trigger the heightened metabolic processes and have been shown to increase activities including energy production, photosynthesis, metabolite production, gene activation, and so forth. The remaining components in the BOOST serve to enhance and support these activities including providing certain levels of important nutrients. In the end, there is no molasses remaining. It has been rendered into many components through modern natural and organic chemistry. These, together with the trace elements and other remaining components that are contained within CANNABOOST, directly interact with a plant cells’ metabolism process. CANNABOOST is an all natural carbohydrate based product but contains little sugar and zero added plant hormones....


Well what oligosaccaride product is know to enhance plant growth and quality?
Chitosan oligosaccaride

I can dig out some emails from canna, but I believe it's long step fermented product? All I know is it takes a long time for them to make the product, hence I think some of the price tag

didn't they claim it was also some tropical rainforest plant in there???

what I did find in my email..

"Boost, and its mineral counterpart, is based on the same thing. A little mineral charge is given to increase performance in the Canna Boost. Both start out and are composed of a fermentation product that really provides no additional nutrients. It is an engineered product that stimulates or, rather, acts as a stress indicator for the plant. No actual stress occurs but the plant thinks it is, much like a vaccine will do for animals, and is a positive stress. The plant them responds to the stress by increasing its immune response. This immune response bolsters the natural products produced by plants that help it ward off the effects of a pathogen or physical damage. Things such as alkaloids are defense mechanisms for plants and are enhanced. So, basically 2 things happen: the plant will express better resistance to disease and will show heightened production of natural protectants made by the plant, hence the smell. Additionally the plant will tend to increased branching on sl!
ightly shorter plants and exhibit more even and earlier harvest; earlier is measured in a few days in reality as this is the measure used in the horticultural world."

 

[milkyjoe]

I use a home-brewed seaweed extract. Cause I don't break the polysaccharides down into oligos, likely there's not much effect to be expected in this regard. Still, seaweed seems beneficial (no control though)...

Products? Dunno... most seaweed and kelp extracts are made using a basic (high pH) workup/extraction. This breaks down proteins quite nicely, keeps many plant hormones intact, but does not break the polysaccharides down. For that, an acidic workup (or irradiation, IIRC they use a cobalt isotope for that) would be needed. That said, common kelp extracts won't do the trick and it's seldom indicated on the product if they used a neutral, acidic, or basic extraction technique.

You could try it using kitchen chemistry: 1 M HCl (if you have a reflux refrigerator) or 0.5 M sulfuric acid (phosphoric acid should work too but usually isn't used for acid catalysed hydrolysis) and roughly 1/10 of seaweed per volume (water). Heat to ~80°C (just below boiling point) for an hour should greatly break down the stuff in small pieces (also the proteins into amino acids) but not too small ones. Cool down, filter (cotton or coffee filter) and then use potassium hydroxide, carbonate, or hydrogencarbonate to neutralise (pH 6-7) the brew. KOH works fastest whereas the hydrogencarbonate (carbonate too but not as handy) makes bubbles (carbon dioxide) and foam (a lot!) as long as there's still free acid present; no need to check pH, just add as long as it bubbles, a slight excess won't hurt either .
You shouldn't forget that this solution will contain 1 M potassium salt of the corresponding acid -> take that into account when calculating your fertiliser . Need help with the gram-litre-%-mol-ppm calculations? Just ask .

That explains why most of the soluble kelp extracts are high in K. Thanks for that info.