Chitosan

[Iffy]

Do you have a link to some proof of this?

http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/133/3/1367.short

 

[Iffy]

Sure there is, it works, and it's way cheaper. I don't spray my plants with anything past week 1 flower anyway, but I end salicylic acid foliars before flower.

Week 1 flower my plants get a spray of vitazyme with jh biotech's glycine chelated calcium.

Salicylic Acid reduces trich growth & terpine production.

http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/133/3/1367.short

 

[Iffy]

Hi Folks,
My interest in Chitosan is not as an addition to my res. I'm not sure what the benefit of that particular enzyme it produces. I want to use it in conjunction with Giberrelic & Jasmonic acid (it needs to be dissolved in an organic acid) as a foliar spray from week 2 to week 4 of flowering.

http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/133/3/1367.short

The above link leads to one of the many articles I have read on the subject of 'Stimulating Trich Production'. To mimick insect attack on the plants and kick the defense system into overdrive, thus producing more 'Frost', I plan to alloy this procedure to a regimen of regular & constant mechanical damage. In the form of nibbling the leaves with a hole punch. (Some research papers suggested a trigger lay in the saliva of the munching insect, so I clean the head of the hole punch with my mouth - why not?)
I reckon if I spray my plants with this mixture and keep attacking them with the hole punch I might see a marked increase in trich production = +++potency!
The only thing I have to determine/guess are the dilution rates of the two acids. Might just have to suck it and see!

Anyone done this before? I would love to hear from you.
I will of course share my results, if any!
Happy growing

 

[omera1]

Hi Folks,
My interest in Chitosan is not as an addition to my res. I'm not sure what the benefit of that particular enzyme it produces. I want to use it in conjunction with Giberrelic & Jasmonic acid (it needs to be dissolved in an organic acid) as a foliar spray from week 2 to week 4 of flowering.

http://www.plantphysiology.org/content/133/3/1367.short

The above link leads to one of the many articles I have read on the subject of 'Stimulating Trich Production'. To mimick insect attack on the plants and kick the defense system into overdrive, thus producing more 'Frost', I plan to alloy this procedure to a regimen of regular & constant mechanical damage. In the form of nibbling the leaves with a hole punch. (Some research papers suggested a trigger lay in the saliva of the munching insect, so I clean the head of the hole punch with my mouth - why not?)
I reckon if I spray my plants with this mixture and keep attacking them with the hole punch I might see a marked increase in trich production = +++potency!
The only thing I have to determine/guess are the dilution rates of the two acids. Might just have to suck it and see!

Anyone done this before? I would love to hear from you.
I will of course share my results, if any!
Happy growing

please do not use gib. its not worth it, trust me. if you want something a bit like gib, try bras. bras activates SAR also, so maybe a good addition to chito or jasmo. for me .01ppm is to much, .004 or so could be a good number to start. but i think you better avoid gib bras or all stretchers. and when you use jasmonate, you dont have to hurt the plant. thats a point why you use jasmonates, you dont have to hurt the plant but get better results as if you just do physical damage to your plant.

....and sorry, do you think you can dissolve the chito in jasmonic acid?^^ pure jasmonate it expensive as fuck, pure methyl jasmonate also. and you need such a litte amount that it is impossible to dissolve the chito in the jasmonic acid. jaz rose spray is the cheap answer, its MDHJ. you better use hcl at 0.4mol to dissolve the chito...

 

[shaggyballs]

please do not use gib. its not worth it, trust me. if you want something a bit like gib, try bras. bras activates SAR also, so maybe a good addition to chito or jasmo. for me .01ppm is to much, .004 or so could be a good number to start. but i think you better avoid gib bras or all stretchers. and when you use jasmonate, you dont have to hurt the plant. thats a point why you use jasmonates, you dont have to hurt the plant but get better results as if you just do physical damage to your plant.

....and sorry, do you think you can dissolve the chito in jasmonic acid?^^ pure jasmonate it expensive as fuck, pure methyl jasmonate also. and you need such a litte amount that it is impossible to dissolve the chito in the jasmonic acid. jaz rose spray is the cheap answer, its MDJA. you better use hcl at 0.4mol to dissolve the chito...

I agree 100%
I could not have said it better myself!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy GIBB. is bad!!!!!!!!

 

[CoastalSFC]

I believe insect frass is a source of chit , can anyone else confirm this?

 

[BubbaBear]

http://www.bestchitosan.com/index_en.html

Kilo shipped from China $135 total! Panda Land has all the goodies for cheap

I was thinking about ordering some of this chitosan how did it work out for you ? Would you recommend it? Any tips on usage?

 

[Iffy]

Chitosan

Hi Peeps.
Interesting thread.
I was looking at Chitosan from a different perspective. Apparently when dissolved in an organic acid & sprayed onto the early budding crop, it mimmicks attack in some form and thereby stimulates trichome production. It has been used in conjunction with a programme of mechanical damage (ie nibbling the leaves with a tool) Both these together have in tests produced more trichs. More trichs = more VOC's = more potent product??
(Chinese 'snow crab' chit is top quality)
Anybody tried this or thinking about trying this?
Peace & happy growing

 

[BubbaBear]

Hi Peeps.
Interesting thread.
I was looking at Chitosan from a different perspective. Apparently when dissolved in an organic acid & sprayed onto the early budding crop, it mimmicks attack in some form and thereby stimulates trichome production. It has been used in conjunction with a programme of mechanical damage (ie nibbling the leaves with a tool) Both these together have in tests produced more trichs. More trichs = more VOC's = more potent product??
(Chinese 'snow crab' chit is top quality)
Anybody tried this or thinking about trying this?
Peace & happy growing

I use bud factor x as a mid flower foliar and it has chitosan in it. It makes you trics stack harder for sure but a few products will do that but bud factor x really makes your plants aromatics go thru the roof it cranks up the terpines like no other product. One negative effect of bud factor x and presumably chitosan used as a foliar is if used to early in flower it will rob you of yield and the plant will concentrate all its energy into growing tricromes. I have not experienced this with root feedings though but bud factor x is to expensive for me to dump in my reservoir thats why im interested in trying pure oligo chitosan.

 

[Iffy]

Hey BubbaBear,
I heard about Bud Factor X and why they use Chitosan I also get that too soon would definitely slow down bud 'growth'. Smaller but frostier buds.
- when do you think is the ideal time to use it?

Regards
Iffy

 

[BubbaBear]

Hey BubbaBear,
I heard about Bud Factor X and why they use Chitosan I also get that too soon would definitely slow down bud 'growth'. Smaller but frostier buds.
- when do you think is the ideal time to use it?

Regards
Iffy

I'd wait till week 5 or 6 of a 10 week strain or when you feel the majority of the bulking is done right before ripening starts. Apply it about a hour before lights on, spray it weekly up till the last week use a upward spraying sprayer aim for the undersides of the leaves and branches with a light fine mist over the tops of the flowers.The last couple weeks skip misting your flowers and only hit the undersides of the leaves and branches or just do crown feedings if your scared to spray your flowers, its also great bennie food and can be added to teas. I know spraying your plants during flower is pretty frowned upon but chitosan is basically a antibiotic for the plant, I've read treated plants have a 85% less of a chance of getting Botrytis than untreated plants.

 

[Iffy]

Hi BubbaBear,
Thanks for that priceless bit of info.
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
Thanks again
Iffy

 

[Mikell]

Interesting, I wonder if it would have a similar effect on peppers.

 

[BubbaBear]

Hi BubbaBear,
Thanks for that priceless bit of info.
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
Thanks again
Iffy

I came in this thread looking for that info myself, I've only used Bud Factor X not pure chitosan. I believe if you use chitosan oligosaccharide lactate its 99% water soluble so it should mix right in, maybe add some fulvic acid and filter out the insolubles? I dont know hopefully someone that knows will pipe in, I'd love some info on using chitosan oligosaccaride lactate verses Bud Factor X.

 

[Only Ornamental]

...
What organic acid would you recommend dissolving the chitosan into? Gibb, Jas - acetic? And what strength solution?
...

The following only concerns you if you don't directly buy/use chitosan HCl, acetate, or lactate (they are directly water soluble).
Now, chitosan in its free form is basic (in water, pH goes up), uncharged, and therefore not soluble. You need the acid to protonate at least 50% of the amines. This is the case at roughly pH 6 and depending on the amount of chitosan used requires +/- 1% acetic acid in water. If the stuff doesn't dissolve properly, either add more acid or buy better quality .
Using 1% jasmonic or gibberellic acid will not work due their low solubility and KILL your plants too.

You can also use hydrochloric acid, lactic acid or nearly any other acid instead of acetic acid. Phosphoric acid works too but might increase viscosity and cause precipitations at high concentrations, same goes for sulfuric acid but not as pronounced... other organic acids would have to be tested because show different additional effects such as increased viscosity.

Concentration is somewhere between 50 and 2000 ppm depending on the use (soil drench, foliar, systemic resistance induction etc.) and quality (molecular weight, degree of acetylation, etc.).

 

[Only Ornamental]

maybe add some fulvic acid and filter out the insolubles?

Fulvic acid is an anionic polymer, chitosan a cationic. Mixing both, depending on chemical structure of both (which is usually not well known and my differ from batch to batch), may lead to full precipitation or gel formation. Both not very practical.
Whether or not this 'cross-linked' macromolecular complex retains the advantages of either or both partners remains to be seen (but I'd guess you're more likely to lose at least some of the activity).

 

[BubbaBear]

Fulvic acid is an anionic polymer, chitosan a cationic. Mixing both, depending on chemical structure of both (which is usually not well known and my differ from batch to batch), may lead to full precipitation or gel formation. Both not very practical.
Whether or not this 'cross-linked' macromolecular complex retains the advantages of either or both partners remains to be seen (but I'd guess you're more likely to lose at least some of the activity).

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

 

[BubbaBear]

 

[shaggyballs]

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

Hey there BubbaBear

OO and I have spoke on the subject, he is very smart!

Chitosan is so versatile it can be used so many ways for so many different reasons, the stuff can be made into so many different forms.

So when OO says:

"Concentration is somewhere between 50 and 2000 ppm depending on the use (soil drench, foliar, systemic resistance induction etc.) and quality (molecular weight, degree of acetylation, etc.)."

He is not trying to be vague, he is telling you that at different PPM Chitosan has a different effect....Also all those other factors are just as important in determining the mode of action of the end product.

It is a crazy product, that is for sure.

Best wishes
shag

 

[Only Ornamental]

Great info thanks for sharing. I was thinking the fulvic would help get the chitosan into the plant. Im not to well versed on what fulvic helps chelate and what it does not. Im going to order some chitosan oligo lactate, do you know what ppm l should apply it in the reservoir and as a foliar?

You're welcome.
Last things first: For experiments (lab and field), up to 200 ppm for foliar and seedlings are used. For soil drench up to 2000 ppm, sometimes even more (but that's likely just wasted money). I'm not really into hydroponics: usually, concentrations of such 'additives' are closer to the foliar than the soil treatment. As you are going to use the oligosaccharide and not the polymer, you're main effect is induction of plant immunity: Go for the foliar application .

You don't really need chitosan IN the plant.
It just has to touch receptors on the outside of the plant cells to for example tell her: 'Hey, I'm a predatory animal feeding on your healthy leaves! You're all going do DIE *HAR-HAR-HAR*!' Whereupon the plant will activate its immunity and fight back.
Another effect is mechanical/physical protection (in case of higher molecular weights): Again, a film over the leaves does the trick, no resorption needed.

Besides:
- Fulvic acid is bigger than chitosan oligosaccharide
- Chitosan is positively charged: this is the preferred state for resorption/adsorption in plants, no need to add something
- Chitosan is too big to be resorbed, small oligos (di-/trimers) and monomers (glucosamine) may be resorbed but then are metabolised like sugars
- We still don't know how and why exactly fulvic acid is so beneficial in terms of nutrient uptake but it can also decrease bioavailability. Best not to fool around with it as long as you don't know what it does in that particular case .