Chitosan

[milkyjoe]

They have invented brand new micros, never before seen in the history of mankind. Do tell what makes them so special?

 

[Storm Shadow]

 

[neverforget4/20]

They have invented brand new micros, never before seen in the history of mankind. Do tell what makes them so special?

"Our scientifically proven micronutrient ratios promote increased plant growth, root health and resin production"

It's the "ratios" my brother!

 

[milkyjoe]

DOH...brand new ratios.

 

[neverforget4/20]

From RIU:

Our products are, in fact, the first to actually allow the scientific process to happen.


Show me another company that tells you the exact amount of each element you feed your plants. It doesn't exist. We do it for each week.


Sure there is some marketing in this, its a business that sells a product. Is it a lie? No way.


We want everyone to be a better grower. We give you the tools to find the answers. What works and what doesn't? This is the only way a grower gets better. Now you have the tools to determine the correct answers.


I will keep my butt in the growing section. It's better I help people...I'm surely not here for a pee-pee contest


Good day

 

[PerfectGrower]

Brand new? No. Proven, yes!


Should we get into a discussion about Iron chelation? Superior products use superior ingredients. Iron EDDHA is the strongest chelated Iron source there is. It's 100% available to a plant between the pH of 1-10. It will never lock out.


Iron makes a very large majority of all the ingredients inside any "Micro" product. Iron is the most used "micro nutrient" - by FAR.

So, that being said. We use 100% Iron EDDHA. Everyone else uses Iron DPTA, Iron EDTA or "blends" to save money. Look at the back of your bottle and see for yourself.



We don't cut corners on our ingredients and the results do show



Oh here's a chart about Iron:

Enjoy!

 

[PerfectGrower]

One last note...


Our micro also has very low weigh high grade chitosan oligosaccharide. It's used in products like Bud Factor X by Advanced Nutrients. One less expensive product to use and buy, all wrapped into one.


We're happy with our products and I know others are too.


Thanks again

 

[milkyjoe]

What are your ratios? In soil that chelation thing ain't no big deal...the P to Fe ratio is, but I like it to pass through my microbes anyways for chelation

 

[Only Ornamental]

...
Should we get into a discussion about Iron chelation? Nope, please don't; at least not in the chitosan thread ... Iron EDDHA is the strongest chelated Iron source there is (if you refer to commonly used agricultural synthetic chelates, then yes, but only then). It's 100% available to a plant between the pH of 1-10. It will never lock out. Too bad that there's no plant growing at pH 1 or 10, no matter how well chelated the iron is... besides, and sorry that I now do get into that discussion *shame on me*, the 'strength' (stability constant or logK0) doesn't mean that it's superior or better plant available, too good a chelate actually reduces availability. And then, there's the point of green chemistry, biodegradation, and what might happen is you smoke the stuff. EDDHA sucks in this regard.
...

...
Our micro also has very low weigh high grade chitosan oligosaccharide...

May I ask which degree of polymerisation and which degree of deacetylation you product has?

 

[PerfectGrower]

May I ask which degree of polymerisation and which degree of deacetylation you product has?

Hey Only Ornamental. I just want to start off by saying I've read and enjoyed your posts over the years. You've added a lot of science to this community and we're grateful.

I have some fault here in all this. My chemistry is average at best. Luckily we have smarter minds doing the technical things here at Perfect Grower

That being said, I've asked our chemist to respond. He loves science as much as you Here's his answer:


"The degree of polymerization and deacetylation is 100-X where X is the guaranteed purity.

These are impurities that present themselves within the product as it degrades through various mechanisms.

There is no study that I'm aware of that shows that EDDHA is bound to be more toxic in this scenario than say, something like EDTA.

I would say that there is no relationship between the stability of the Iron Complex and the temperature stability of the substances. The fact that EDDHA is a stronger complex does not mean more will remain when the plant material is burned. Fe concentration in dry plant tissue is very low, around 100 ug/g (that is micro grams per gram)



Have him read these studies that validate our conclusions:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01904169009364099

http://www.actahort.org/books/742/742_8.htm


http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-005-8218-5



Have him read this book too. It's quite good:

Plant Propagation by Tissue Culture: Volume 1. The Background by Ediwn F.George Michael A Hall and Geert-Jan de Klerk"

Here is the specific reference in this book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5... by Tissue Culture: Volume iron eddha&f=false

""



Let's leave it at that please

I'm going to get back to helping people with things I actually understand. I'm way outside of my comfort zone here. If you have any other questions, I will forward them on to our chemist (in private)

 

[PerfectGrower]

I also reached out to our supplier for an answer on purity. Our last chitosan oligosaccharide batch was tested at 93% purity.


Hope that helps.

 

[Only Ornamental]

...Here's his answer:
"The degree of polymerization and deacetylation is 100-X where X is the guaranteed purity...

Thanks for the really fast reply! Wasn't able to respont equally fast...
Anyway, I think I wasn't 100% clear with my question. The 100 refers, I assume, to the degree of deacetylation (i.e. fully deacetylated = good). Still lacking is the degree of polymerisation.

Regarding iron: Wouldn't it be better to start a new thread for that one? I do have a few points to add but don't want to overstretch the chitosan thread with off topic stuff.

TTYL

 

[Bongstar420]

I pull fire droppin acetylsalicylic acid on the roots all through cut to harvest. I'm talkin bout 30% fire. So. I doubt its bad for the resin. It does change the terps. So does Chitosan. The combinations also have somewhat different profiles from the single differences. You may or may not like the change. Stuff like this can turn pinapple into black peppercorn or musk into bubblegum. Mine tends to be poppin more funk when I'm droppin it on the root.

My opinion is my grow needs this stuff to stay fire since I'm rollin dirty with diseases on their feet atm. This crazy shit goes from root to root cycle to cycle and is stystemic cut to cut..effing incurable! ...but you can resist it and take lower weight with a risk of hempy product if you can't stand the heat in the kitchen.

It may reduce resin production in your study(which doesn't cover cannabis), but in my garden I know for a fact it doesn't. Especially since there is a four week window between the last SA application and the first signs of capitate trichrome production.

Also, I don't have the equipment to test for the physiological response of plants to exogenous SA application, but an overwhelming amount of evidence exist to support the fact it stimulates SAR in many plants.

 

[whatsmells]

Yo man how did things turn out?

Well I hate to say it but things turned out the almost same for the most part. Before I had full plants that would dud and now I just have a couple branches on a couple plants do it. Better? Yes. Cured? No. I have to say the ones that did dud at least had some frost on the buds but still bag appeal. However the rest of the plants were for the better. They had more trichs. I mean they were stacked on top of each other. Also, there was more resin. The next run I will hit them several times in veg and several times at the start of flower with chitosan and a slightly higher dose. It appears to of helped but not stopped it yet. I gave 2 doses of 1 gram per gallon at veg and 1 at flower start. Me thinks we need more.

 

[growshopfrank]

Well I hate to say it but things turned out the almost same for the most part. Before I had full plants that would dud and now I just have a couple branches on a couple plants do it. Better? Yes. Cured? No. I have to say the ones that did dud at least had some frost on the buds but still bag appeal. However the rest of the plants were for the better. They had more trichs. I mean they were stacked on top of each other. Also, there was more resin. The next run I will hit them several times in veg and several times at the start of flower with chitosan and a slightly higher dose. It appears to of helped but not stopped it yet. I gave 2 doses of 1 gram per gallon at veg and 1 at flower start. Me thinks we need more.

Had some positive results at 2.5g/l saw 200 ppm at that rate with ro water used as foliar FWIW

 

[Bongstar420]

Don't use HCl..jeese

Vinegar yes, Citric acid yes, Phosphoric acid yes, but not HCl

I harvest 25-30% with Actyl salycilic acid. Just because Arabadopsis gets bald from it don't mean it does to Cannabis. I can't not use it..got dudding to work around right now.

you need 0,4M Hcl (or a bit vingar) to dissolve the chitosan. water only will not work.
and bud factor x has no salicylic acid in it. salicylic acid reduces resin in cannabis.

 

[h1ghscore1]

does anyone have experience with the product REGALIA combined with the chitosan powder to send the plants response in the ISR direction?

 

[BubbaBear]

I use both but not at the same time, over stimulating SAR is not a good thing, a study showed using Regalia at 1.5 recommended dosage resulted in a low yield. I've experienced the same thing from over using chitosan.

 

[GET MO]

yeah i can dig that, over stressing your plants may bring out sugars for defense but wont help your yield, and too much could definitely hurt it. Thats why i use it once, week 4 or 5. prevents powdery, anything else it helps is just a bonus for me.

 

[h1ghscore1]

thanks for the chime in guys, i should of wrote that a little more clear. didn't intend to use them in a combo form just hit the plant with the chitosan week 4/5 then follow up spray the REGALIA say about week 5.5/6. i was interested in the product to help push the chitosan to a isr path since the jaz spray is unavailable in my state..