Chitosan

[Storm Shadow]

When using Jaz Rose Spray... be prepared for Nugs the size of Peanuts ... If you use this stuff without a specific reason or condition.. you'll do more damage than good... Ive been using Jaz Rose Spray since it first came out

 

[Only Ornamental]

It all comes down to the right amount and too much will certainly do more bad than good but that goes for all hormones.

 

[Loc Dog]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hedione+icmag
(You have to wait 5 seconds)
Or go with JAZ Rose Spray. The c[FONT=&quot]oncentrate (Methyl dihydrojasmonate aka Hédione®) is 0.68%. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Official dose for roses is 100 ppm = 15 ml/l, a good start to try and see.[/FONT]

With how many PPM of Chitosan Oligosaccharide?

Is it only foliar spray, or root drench also?

How often? I was planning on using last 2 weeks of flower, and do not want to ruin taste.

 

[whatsmells]

I ordered 1 kg of Chitosan from china. $150.00 door to door. They started out at 250.00 but we negotiated it down. It is sitting in customs right now (3 days). Should be delivered tomorrow. I am having the dud issue in several GG#4 grows. about 1 in 15 is duding now. Hopefully this will take care my problem, whatever it may be.

I read the closed dud thread and also found this online. Copy and paste.

Modulation of plant responses using chitosan has been reported in many pathosystems involving various plant species and a diverse range of pathogens, including virus and viroids, bacteria, fungi, nematodes and other pests [20,63,73,87,88]. This biopolymer was shown to be an effective inducer of phytoalexins synthesis and accumulation in various host cells [18,89], and triggers callose formation [15,16,83], lignification responses [80], and the production of proteinase inhibitors [17,88].


The entire article here. Its a good read.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866471/


I want to thank Storm Shadow for all his hard work and contributions to the dud thread as well as everyone else that contributed to it.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743&highlight=chitosan

Without his help I would still be rolling the dice on what plants would eventually dud.

 

[Loc Dog]

Is there a trick to get Methyl Dihydrojasmonate to mix with water?? I added a couple of drops to a quart of RO water and it does not mix. Do you just shake the crap out of bottle while spraying?

 

[Loc Dog]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hedione+icmag
(You have to wait 5 seconds)
Or go with JAZ Rose Spray. The c[FONT=&quot]oncentrate (Methyl dihydrojasmonate aka Hédione®) is 0.68%. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Official dose for roses is 100 ppm = 15 ml/l, a good start to try and see.[/FONT]

Would that 100 PPM show up on PPM/EC meter, or is it based on calculations? It does not mix well with water, and does not seem to change PPM.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Is there a trick to get Methyl Dihydrojasmonate to mix with water?? I added a couple of drops to a quart of RO water and it does not mix. Do you just shake the crap out of bottle while spraying?

Would that 100 PPM show up on PPM/EC meter, or is it based on calculations? It does not mix well with water, and does not seem to change PPM.

Yes, there is a trick . Its physico-chemical behaviour is like that of an essential oil and hence it does not mix with water no matter how much crap you shake out of it .
And as long as it's not dissolved but floats on the water instead it can't affect EC in the least. In fact, being a non-charged molecule means that it won't change electrical conductivity at all even if brought into solution (much like sugar). On the other hand, it does change ppm (obviously) though you have to calculate them (meaning that you change the milligram you add per litre water into ppm, they're both the same) and can't just measure it.

How you get them into solution is by using the right surfactant at the right concentration. Preferably, you'd use sugar based surfactants as several are approved for agricultural use and they work more or less well with methyl dihydrojasmonate and similar molecules. There are others too, also such with additional benefits...

 

[Loc Dog]

How you get them into solution is by using the right surfactant at the right concentration. Preferably, you'd use sugar based surfactants as several are approved for agricultural use and they work more or less well with methyl dihydrojasmonate and similar molecules. There are others too, also such with additional benefits...

I sprayed them before I saw this. Did I screw them up not using surfactant? Some of the leaves turned yellow within 24 hours.

 

[Only Ornamental]

You just got too much in some places and too little in others cause you mix wasn't homogeneous without the surfactant. Cause it's a systemic hormone, it doesn't just affect a small spot but diffuses throughout a good part of the plant and that might be the reason why entire leaves turned yellow.

 

[Loc Dog]

Yes, there is a trick . Its physico-chemical behaviour is like that of an essential oil and hence it does not mix with water no matter how much crap you shake out of it .
And as long as it's not dissolved but floats on the water instead it can't affect EC in the least. In fact, being a non-charged molecule means that it won't change electrical conductivity at all even if brought into solution (much like sugar). On the other hand, it does change ppm (obviously) though you have to calculate them (meaning that you change the milligram you add per litre water into ppm, they're both the same) and can't just measure it.

How you get them into solution is by using the right surfactant at the right concentration. Preferably, you'd use sugar based surfactants as several are approved for agricultural use and they work more or less well with methyl dihydrojasmonate and similar molecules. There are others too, also such with additional benefits...

What is an approved, readily available surfactant for Methyl Dihydrojasmonate, and what ratio of each?

Here is picture of leaves, when surfactant was not used -



Used 10 ml of Methyl Dihydrojasmonate to quart of water.

 

[growshopfrank]

Tried to follow OO's breadcrumb trail for a sugar based surfactant without any success other than a wack of scholarly articles does anyone have a handle on a commercially available product along these lines?

Stumbled across this.
If you do not have an accurate scale then do the following for a standard 100 to 150 parts per million. Buy an eyedropper, one drop equals about .03 grams. Five drops of MAJ in a quart then equals about 160 ppm. Four drops equals about 130 ppm. Three drops equals about 95 ppm. If you do have an accurate scale (.001 gram resolution) then measure out one 100 mg to 150 mg of MAJ in a liter depending on what you want to use (100 to 150 ppm)

 

[Only Ornamental]

What is an approved, readily available surfactant for Methyl Dihydrojasmonate, and what ratio of each?
...
Used 10 ml of Methyl Dihydrojasmonate to quart of water.

Holy canoly!!!
That's 2500 ppm and you should start with 100 ppm and go from there. It doesn't astonish me that this 25x overdose had a sever impact on your plants.

For example alkyl polyglycosides (APGs) are used on crop plants. The proportions are to be determined by yourself as there are literally hundreds of different products available. A 6-10:1 surfactant/MDJ ratio should (should like in theory) result in a rather clear to opalescent microemulsion of suitable stability given that you don't drop below its CMC value and aren't too concentrated.
There are other options as well, for example adding 10% (with respect to the non-ionic surfactant) of a charged surfactant (I love ascorbyl palmitate potassium salt and de-oiled lecithin) will dramatically increase micelle stability but renders the emulsion prone to salting-out (-> don't add fertilisers and most of all no calcium).
There's no patent formulation which will work but there are thousands which could/should. I'm a pharmacist and this is my field of expertise so I could talk and talk and most of you would still understand shit, let alone get anything really and practically useful from it. That's why using APGs is a fine compromise and recommendable alternative for Tween and other poorly degradable PEG derivatives.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Tried to follow OO's breadcrumb trail for a sugar based surfactant without any success other than a wack of scholarly articles does anyone have a handle on a commercially available product along these lines?
...

You could ask at http://chemistscorner.com, www.makingcosmetics.com, or www.ruehrkueche.de, cause there are a lot of businesses selling useful additives small scale all over the globe and the guys and gals there know who has what . Besides the fact that making your own cosmetics is actually a lot of fun they might also be helpful formulating your stuff (just handle MDJ like any essential oil).

 

[BIGGS]

Found some chitosan and wondered if its the right grade to use. Here's the description:

Chitosan is a dietary fibre that is non-digestible. Due to these properties Chitosan has 0 kilocalories. Derived from the shells of Crustaceans, Chitosan contains no sugar, salt, starch, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, eggs or preservatives. Chitosan contributes to the maintenance of normal blood cholesterol levels when 3g is consumed per day. Chitosan is not only water soluble but it is also bio adhesive. It is important to drink at least 6-8 cups of water per day whilst increasing your fibre intake. Chirosan is a source of the Crustacean allergen and as such, if you have an allergy please do not consume this product. All of Oxford Vitality's Chitosan tablets are packaged by our expert team here in the UK, meeting all of the requirements set by Trading Standards, UK Legislation and the Food Standards Agency. All packets come marked with a full ingredients list as well as a best before date and a batch number for full tractability. Our Chitosan contains no: Colours Artificial Flavours Sweeteners Preservatives Added Sugar Added Salt Milk Lactose Soya Gluten Wheat Yeast Fish Porcine If you have any questions about our Chitosan or any other products please contact us.

Any ideas?

 

[Only Ornamental]

...Here's the description:
...
Any ideas?

That's not a very useful description of the product but common bla-bla of chitosan in general.
The important points in there are:
- It's soluble -> salt form, most likely the hydrochloride which may not be the most preferable for plants
- It's indigestible fibres -> likely high-molecular weight chitosan which is the cheapest form and the least active for plants
- Contains no sugar -> This means that their marketing guy is a nutjob. Chitosan is a sugar though an amino sugar... ah well...

Informations you need are:
- Degree of polymerisation (DP): Around 10-20 would be very good but that's called chitosan oligosaccharide (the "saccharide" refers to chitosan being a sugar ). Else, the lower the better
- Viscosity: Indirect measure for DP, the lower the better
- Degree of deacetylation (DDA): The higher the better, 100% would be best.
- Which salt form if soluble, else the notation that it's not readily soluble (in which case it's up to you to add the desired acid)

Bottom line:
Don't buy it!

 

[Loc Dog]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hedione+icmag
(You have to wait 5 seconds)
Or go with JAZ Rose Spray. The c[FONT=&quot]oncentrate (Methyl dihydrojasmonate aka Hédione®) is 0.68%. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]: Official dose for roses is 100 ppm = 15 ml/l, a good start to try and see.[/FONT]

I thought this meant to use 15ml per liter. Was that for the Jaz rose spray and not the hedione???

Is the crop poisoned/not fit for consumption???

Was going to let it go another 10 days, but so screwed, would like to just flush, and get rid of as soon as possible.

 

[Only Ornamental]

I thought this meant to use 15ml per liter. Was that for the Jaz rose spray and not the hedione???

Is the crop poisoned/not fit for consumption???

Was going to let it go another 10 days, but so screwed, would like to just flush, and get rid of as soon as possible.

Errr... yes, it was meant for the JAZ rose spray... sooo sooorrrry if that wasn't clear enough!!

DHJ will evaporate, maybe your buds will still smell a bit, after all, it's meant as a perfume ingredient (hence, you'll notice it ).
But it's not toxic, if this is what you wanted to know.
Flush will do shit; there's nothing you could do about it except to wait and see. Again, DHJ is highly volatile and whatever remained on your plants will be gone within a few days at the latest. Whatever got into your plants will be quickly metabolised and well... do stupid stuff to your plants, like killing off the leaves if overdosed...

BTW You're happy that you didn't spray earlier.

 

[BIGGS]

That's not a very useful description of the product but common bla-bla of chitosan in general.
The important points in there are:
- It's soluble -> salt form, most likely the hydrochloride which may not be the most preferable for plants
- It's indigestible fibres -> likely high-molecular weight chitosan which is the cheapest form and the least active for plants
- Contains no sugar -> This means that their marketing guy is a nutjob. Chitosan is a sugar though an amino sugar... ah well...

Informations you need are:
- Degree of polymerisation (DP): Around 10-20 would be very good but that's called chitosan oligosaccharide (the "saccharide" refers to chitosan being a sugar ). Else, the lower the better
- Viscosity: Indirect measure for DP, the lower the better
- Degree of deacetylation (DDA): The higher the better, 100% would be best.
- Which salt form if soluble, else the notation that it's not readily soluble (in which case it's up to you to add the desired acid)

Bottom line:
Don't buy it!

Cheers for the Info bro,unfortunately those details are not listed on any of the products descriptions will email for more info. Found another one, does this sound like they may have more of an idea what they're on about? Lol.


Chitosan is an all-natural fibre that comes from the ocean. It is a natural product derived from Chitin, a polysaccharide. Also known as Deep Sea squid extract, Chitosan is similar to that of cellulose in plant fibre. Specification: Chitosan Powder 90% D.A.C.(bulk density is 0.3)

 

[Loc Dog]

Errr... yes, it was meant for the JAZ rose spray... sooo sooorrrry if that wasn't clear enough!!

DHJ will evaporate, maybe your buds will still smell a bit, after all, it's meant as a perfume ingredient (hence, you'll notice it ).
But it's not toxic, if this is what you wanted to know.
Flush will do shit; there's nothing you could do about it except to wait and see. Again, DHJ is highly volatile and whatever remained on your plants will be gone within a few days at the latest. Whatever got into your plants will be quickly metabolised and well... do stupid stuff to your plants, like killing off the leaves if overdosed...

BTW You're happy that you didn't spray earlier.

I meant to flush to get nutrients out for taste. Yes, my only concern is safety of anyone consuming.

 

[Loc Dog]

Would this be safe as surfactant - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_X-100

It is cheap and readily available on e-bay.