Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[raygun]

Wait so what type of ballest can i use for a 400watter? Can i use an HPS ballest?

MPL that ballest kit is not a bad price.

 

[Guest]

MPL -

If you want to hang the bulb base up get the vertical. I have 250w verticals that I used to do that with. The 400wers work great that way for "Tree" style bucket grows!!!

Check the base config on the 150w single ended. They may be a 2pin and not a screw in and make sure that you have a fixture for them. The double ended go well in many of the aquarium pendant fixtures. Try the aquarium lighting suppliers. I have not used the double ended bulbs, but have bought some generall lighting supplies from HelloLights. You also will find that the newer IceCap 150w halide e-ballast (if it is the black one) is a Hatch Transformer design made and tuned for the cmh bulbs. I fires most regular bulbs as well. Just makes the Eye 6,500k "sing" a little.LOL The 150w cmh is available in a tubular single ended screw in and will run on magnetic style pulse start halide ballasts.

Hey folks, this thread has exploded, thanks for the input and interest. Let me know if I am smoking too much haze and confusing you!!!!

 

[MPL]

Yep, the tubular E26 base 150w MH is what I've decided on. I just have to figure out what about the unprotected versions rates them for enclosed fixtures only. If it is just because of UV output, then I want that lamp. If it is because the bulb blows up easily or something like that, then I want the protected version. Regardless, I definitely don't want a coated one.

I'm trying to decide between the MHC 150/U/M/4K or MHC 150/U/MP/4k. Here is a .pdf showing the full range of 150w and lower ED17 Philips MasterColor lamps.

MPL -

The 150w cmh is available in a tubular single ended screw in and will run on magnetic style pulse start halide ballasts.

Hey folks, this thread has exploded, thanks for the input and interest. Let me know if I am smoking too much haze and confusing you!!!!

 

[simba]

if u are going with a 150 watt cmh without a encloser horizontal or vertical u need a ED-17P (protected) read above..
Osram LOst and entire CMH Mfr Plant because of Neglecting the Precautions dont loose your house..

mpl the lamp you want for your op is.. a
mhc150/u/mp/4k/alto
adv tech has them..
it will run vertical or horizontal

there is a very real Danger with CMH if you get the wrong lamp in wrong application..
the ED-17P lamps have a Qaurtz sleeve around the CMH arc tube in case rupture..

actually for most growers with 150 and bellow wattages. they want the G12 or Rx7 as they are using in super small enclosure and making Mini Air cooled hoods.. IE smaller jacket to make the hood smaller and efficient..
for your case u want a ED-17P
if you try to run a ed17p in a like in PC or mini cab you WILL need it AIRCOOLED hood and the bigger the jacket the bigger the reflector/hood has to be.. so in turn you dont get all the light down to the plants with the large jackets..

 

[kathmandu]

does advancetech sell a horizontal 400w cmh bulb and ballast combo? so i dont have to worry about getting the wrong ballast and blowin up bulbs
if not can i just buy any 400w hps ballast, which do u recc. simba
by the way, nice to have ya here simba

 

[MPL]

Advancetech doesn't have that lamp. They only have the CDM150s.

The MHC150/U/MP/4K/ALTO is a different lamp. Look here.

The CDM150s that Advancetech has are either a double-ended or bi-pin single-ended lamp, depending on which version you get. It is a T6 style bulb and from all the Philips literature I've read the ED17 is a much better choice.

So, the 150w versions of the CMH lamps run a lot hotter than the 250w/400w versions? If that is the case I'll get the 250w lamp and be done with it. Very little price difference. If it is too hot or not far enough from the plants I'll put it in a cooltube.

What kind of distances in a small cab can you keep the 250w lamp without a glass shield? This is assuming good ventilation, of course.

What is the difference between a vertical or horizontal lamp? The reason I ask is that I've always read vertically designed bulbs are still meant to shine their light down. I don't want it to be down, I want to it around the bulb for a vScroG set up. In essence, I'll be hanging the bulb vertically, but I'll be using it as if it were placed horizontally. Look at this grow set up for an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish.

mpl the lamp you want for your op is.. a
mhc150/u/mp/4k/alto
adv tech has them..
it will run vertical or horizontal

 

[simba]

kat unfort at this time Adv tech doesn't do Mag ballasts however im sure they will if the demand is there.. (its just that the lamps are the Niche and they can research and provide the best but ballast is common)

MPL

Heres ED17 CMH Pages 70-150 watt protected and non protected on page no coated on page..


ya sorry they are updating and site goes funny.....

and they are Revamping there entire product line and the site gets affected and is the last thing to be updated..

actully the RX CMHS have higher Lumen Rating threw life over g12 or ed17 on 150 watt.. these things are a trip.


MPL im uploading some pics now so you can see the output..
just imagine it vertical and that Blackspot will be Directly under the bulb and NOT heating up ur Bucket or res or whatever is gonna be there..
they dump light on almost 360x360 degree only Blackspot are Directly parallel to arc tube *(where we dont want to waste anyways)

 

[MPL]

Ahh ok gotcha. There is no link to those lamps from anywhere I was able to find. Thanks for getting it out to us!

I look forward to your pictures. I just don't fully understand what makes a lamp vertical and what makes a lamp horizontal, or for that matter what makes them universal.

I don't care if there is a black spot under the bulb, because there won't be any plants there. The bulb will be hanging down vertically with plants growing around it, not under it.

MPL

Heres ED17 CMH Pages 70-150 watt protected and non protected on page no coated on page..

ya sorry they are updating and site goes funny.....

and they are Revamping there entire product line and the site gets affected and is the last thing to be updated..

actully the RX CMHS have higher Lumen Rating threw life over g12 or ed17 on 150 watt.. these things are a trip.


MPL im uploading some pics now so you can see the output..
just imagine it vertical and that Blackspot will be Directly under the bulb and NOT heating up ur Bucket or res or whatever is gonna be there..
they dump light on almost 360x360 degree only Blackspot are Directly parallel to arc tube *(where we dont want to waste anyways)

 

[simba]

i had a good answer to the reason for Designating Horizontal, vertical or universal..
but my pc got upset.. LOL
in short it has to do with Physics of the arc itself (gravity, magnetic field holds arc in place depending on design..) if you take a hor or vert an run in other position it Shifts the NM output and shortens life (also known to cause Premature bulb failure and no protection is designed to work outside its intended position so you loose the protection basically also)

tip of bulb is about 6.75" from wall and diameter is 5.5" so in ur op the diameter will be 2.5 or so.. so the bottom of the plants will get light.. to..
mylar over lens to remove flicker and finger covering arc tube so blackspot stands out more

remove flicker with mylar (you can cover lens or the lamp and most the wall. (flicker comes back if enough light bounces off wall or direct from arc tube

yes just place over lens and turn off flash.. and auto adjustments.

 

[MPL]

Ok, so that picture is of the vertical lamp?

i had a good answer to the reason for Designating Horizontal, vertical or universal..
but my pc got upset.. LOL
in short it has to do with Physics of the arc itself (gravity, magnetic field holds arc in place depending on design..) if you take a hor or vert an run in other position it Shifts the NM output and shortens life (also known to cause Premature bulb failure and no protection is designed to work outside its intended position so you loose the protection basically also)

tip of bulb is about 6.75" from wall and diameter is 5.5" so in ur op the diamter will be 2.5 or so.. so the bottom of the plants will get light.. to..

remove flicker with mylar

yes just place over lens and turn off flash.. and auto adjustments.

 

[Guest]

MPL -

You just need to get the vertical bulb you are looking at and hang it between your plants as you have described. I like that kind of set-up and believe that it can yield more than horizontal as you can expose more of the plant to light. I think that is the trick to the bucket/tree guys hitting the big #s. It is just hard for me to find the room in my cab, so horiz it is for me. The arc tube design is slightly different from horiz to vertical not to mention that the arc tube in the horiz 250/400w has an additional support running from one end of the bulb to the other. I have not used the 150w, but many 150w and below of other types are universal rated (as far as horiz/vert). You are asking a lot of good questions and I can tell you are making much effort to get it correct. I can't wait to see what kind of results you get!!!

 

[Guest]

I am going to got out on a limb here and say that I have looked more closely at the link you provided. I would choose the unprotected to stay away from the heavy uv fade block. If you go unprotected you will get quite a good load of UV. Just my two cents. The bulb with the extra arc tube shield is the protected one. I believe that the "p" in the model # designates it as protected. The protected are the open rated bulbs and that means you need to evauate your growing are and risk of fire in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event of an arc tube rupture. (my disclaimer!)

Peace

 

[MPL]

So the only reason the unprotected lamps are rated for enclosed use only is because of the heavy UV they emit? They do also put out more energy, so it's win-win.

Are there any specific precautions, both safety-and grow-related, that one should take if running one of the unprotected lamps?

I am going to got out on a limb here and say that I have
looked more closely at the link you provided. I would choose the unprotected to stay away from the heavy uv fade block. If you go unprotected you will get quite a good load of UV. Just my two cents. The bulb with the extra arc tube shield is the protected one. I believe that the "p" in the model # designates it as protected. The protected are the open rated bulbs and that means you need to evauate your growing are and risk of fire in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event of an arc tube rupture. (my disclaimer!)

Peace

 

[MPL]

I'm most likely going with the 150w, as it would save money all around. This is especially true if going with unprotected lamps, and they are much less expensive. I've been back and forth as I learn more, so thanks for the patience in explaining the details pertaining to these bulbs. This thread should be a great source of information for others as well, which is the most important thing.

Do you know if the heat is about the same as othe 150w HID lamps?

Thanks again!

MPL -

You just need to get the vertical bulb you are looking at and hang it between your plants as you have described. I like that kind of set-up and believe that it can yield more than horizontal as you can expose more of the plant to light. I think that is the trick to the bucket/tree guys hitting the big #s. It is just hard for me to find the room in my cab, so horiz it is for me. The arc tube design is slightly different from horiz to vertical not to mention that the arc tube in the horiz 250/400w has an additional support running from one end of the bulb to the other. I have not used the 150w, but many 150w and below of other types are universal rated (as far as horiz/vert). You are asking a lot of good questions and I can tell you are making much effort to get it correct. I can't wait to see what kind of results you get!!!

 

[Guest]

MPL-

The protected bulbs have an extra glass tube/shield around the arc tube to prevent the outer jacket(glass) from breaking should the arc tube rupture.(highly unlikely) With that they add extra UV filtering. They know that regular industrial glass on lighting fixtures cuts a lot of the uv so if the bulb is behind glass there is not a big need for extra rupture and uv protection.

 

[MPL]

Ok, so should the arc tube rupture, and I don't have a protected lamp, it's going to explode inside by cabinet.

Hmm

Your opinion is that it is safe to use an unprotected lamp for horticultural purposes, correct?

MPL-

The protected bulbs have an extra glass tube/shield around the arc tube to prevent the outer jacket(glass) from breaking should the arc tube rupture.(highly unlikely) With that they add extra UV filtering. They know that regular industrial glass on lighting fixtures cuts a lot of the uv so if the bulb is behind glass there is not a big need for extra rupture and uv protection.

 

[simba]

i personally say never use unprotected without a fixture.. (and even prefer Protected if the fixture is high dollar)
(az is totally right they rarely blow but im not willing to take that chance.cause when they do its over.. .)However if the grow room is setup where no issue of fire just lose of some plants if it blows.. then non protected is ok..
as if it does blow without protection the shards are 1000c wich will start a fire on any thing they do touch.
MPL>>
you will be putting out more uv than hps even with the quartz sleeve..(protected versions) the protected are from explosion Fade block is the UV block.and is pretty much a side effect not the reason for the sleeve
ya most the 20-150 watters are Universal for hanging...
mp i think u might even be happy with a 100 ed17p in that thing..but ya 150 be nice allow u to make a lil bigger next grow...

this is one reason i like the 250 and 400 hps retro whites no Sleave to Take Good UV and still being rated open fixture..

 

[MPL]

Hmm, great info.

Right now, I am leaning towards going with the 150w. I want to go with a 250w or 400w, and do a larger version of the vScroG, but I just lost my job so cost is a big issue for me. Initially, the 150w set up is only a little bit cheaper than the 250w, but the power usage is less, the ventilation requirements are lower, the space requirements are lower, the plant size is smaller, the pot sizes are smaller etc. All this adds up to making things a lot cheaper. The 150w is, holistically speaking, significantly less expensive than a similiar 250w set up, unless the 250w runs cool enough that it doesn't need expensive ventilation, glass shields/tubes etc.

By the way, just how hot does the 150w ED17P run compared to other 150w lamps? What about compared to the 250w RetroWhite?

Based on what everyone has said, I think I would rather go with a protected bulb, after all is said and done. It has a little bit less UV and less overall output than unprotected, but it is safer. That's important, because if worse came to worst, I don't want 1000C shards of glass flying all over a plastic or wooden box.

Hey which of these two ballasts would you choose, this or this one (or list what you would suggest instead). According to the ANSI codes they both should be able to fire the 150w ED17P lamp, which is a pulse start metal halide if I am not mistaken.

i personally say never use unprotected without a fixture.. (and even prefer Protected if the fixture is high dollar)
(az is totally right they rarely blow but im not willing to take that chance.cause when they do its over.. .)However if the grow room is setup where no issue of fire just lose of some plants if it blows.. then non protected is ok..
as if it does blow without protection the shards are 1000c wich will start a fire on any thing they do touch.
MPL>>
you will be putting out more uv than hps even with the quartz sleeve..(protected versions) the protected are from explosion Fade block is the UV block.and is pretty much a side effect not the reason for the sleeve
ya most the 20-150 watters are Universal for hanging...
mp i think u might even be happy with a 100 ed17p in that thing..but ya 150 be nice allow u to make a lil bigger next grow...

this is one reason i like the 250 and 400 hps retro whites no Sleave to Take Good UV and still being rated open fixture..

 

[blackone]

This looks interesting for sure - and it seems like shipping is free even to Denmark? I tried proceeding to the checkout but didn't buy because I'm a little worried about customs opening the box and knowing the use of such a lamp.

Has anyone tried ordering to Europe - and what experiences have you had with shipping time?

 

[Guest]

Hey MPL -

You have done the research and asked the questions and are making a good choice for your set-up. You will get much more uv than with ANY HPS and will have great success.

Azeo