Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Guest]

Rolling -

The only things that keep me from recomending the pulse start halide version are:

Lots of folks have an HPS ballast in hand
The need for an enclosed hood (glass blocks a lot of blue and uv)
The much larger bulb size would require some to get a different/larger hood. Like my PLs for example.

The pulse start versions to push a little more light. Nothing you would notice though.

Yes they are intended to retrofit an exhisting fixture.

Now on the comparison thing. I will not waste a lot of time discussing that as the needed data is there. If you undserstand plant biology and light it is a no brainer. When I discovered them while shopping at a supplier years ago and saw the graph, I took two home that day without any question as I know my science! I put them over cuts that I had been running for a several grows (same genetics/mom) and the results were plain and simple to see. Now if you should wish to do the side by side then go for it. I have a great appreciation for the effort. To me it would be a waste of space and time and crapy nubs under the hps. Most HPS growers that haven't grown out of doors can't seem to get over their prized horti bulbs and I don't get it. It is not just the yield (which should not be changed)!!!

 

[raygun]

This is making me want to switch back to my old mag ballest and run a 400 CMH.


~Raygun~

 

[MPL]

The 250w and 400w CMH bulbs have a jacket designed to prevent the UV from being emitted. I read that in the tech notes on the bulbs.

(glass blocks a lot of blue and uv)

 

[Guest]

I have seen the same info. It does not block all of the UV. A local grow shop in Seattle and LifeLight tech have both had that studied. There is a large amount of uv still making it through compared to horti hps bulbs and standard halides. The idea is that there is so much uv emission from the arc tube that the bulb would be harmful to your eyes without some filtering. Your statement well taken. Glass does block a ton of far blue and uv. I have purchased the highest quality simax brocilite(sp) 6" glass tube I could find to make cool tubes. After I had payed and recieved the glass company sent me an e-mail with a spectral graph showing what light it highly absorbed and or filtered. Well needles to say I felt that I had wasted my money!!! My bad though after further google searches I found he same info on my own. I wish the bulbs were available without any block, as that would be cool.

Peace

 

[MPL]

Try tempered Starphire Glass from PPG. Light transmission qualities almost as good as high-grade acrylic.

I have seen the same info. It does not block all of the UV. A local grow shop in Seattle and LifeLight tech have both had that studied. There is a large amount of uv still making it through compared to horti hps bulbs and standard halides. The idea is that there is so much uv emission from the arc tube that the bulb would be harmful to your eyes without some filtering. Your statement well taken. Glass does block a ton of far blue and uv. I have purchased the highest quality simax brocilite(sp) 6" glass tube I could find to make cool tubes. After I had payed and recieved the glass company sent me an e-mail with a spectral graph showing what light it highly absorbed and or filtered. Well needles to say I felt that I had wasted my money!!! My bad though after further google searches I found he same info on my own. I wish the bulbs were available without any block, as that would be cool.

Peace

 

[simba]

az thanks for the good info on the photons.. i couldnt have said better..

yes 600 and 1kw will be in full production in 1 year.. as long as no one changes there mind..

as far as the MH pulse versions DANGEROUS FOR US>> NO WAY NO NO NO NO>>>>>>
unless you buy the MHP-MP lamp and they have other issues.. the hps versions dont BLOW as much as the MHP versions..

the MHP vesions are so dangerous that they have added a extra Sleave around the Arc tube..

because osram lost a WHOLE Factory due to a MHP CMH that failed without a proper fixture (in test lab and they still lost whole plant)
the HPS RETRO WHITES and what Adv tech sells is the only bulbs you want..

the HPS retro white (hps 250 and 400 version) are not conversion bulbs in reality they run on the hps technology yes its close to MHP but not same..

the CMH HPS RETRO WHITE 250 and 400 lamp are Rated for open fixture.. and yes we just had someone with a bulb failure and it contained all partials.. No outer glass rupture.. (shows the Version we promoting are SAFE>>>>))

a CMH MHP non MP is a grenade going off and yes they are lethal at that point.. (u have to remember even in high bay if it blows by the tiime the glass hits you its slowed down to terminal velocity whereas if it blows a few feet away its still has force that will penetrate Skin Deep..

as far as uv.. it puts out enough.. ya it could be a bit more but then the lamp would not be rated for Open fixture use.. (the glass is thicker than normal to ensure open fixture rating)

yes they say it blocks uv but its like food they can say its organic when all it does if fall within spec.. not 0% whatever the case mabye..
its like edys grand Loaded icecream.. oh wait its not icecream but looks like ite etc.. its a dairy desert.. WTF>> and thats cause they took out so much fat that its no longer able to be called icecreem.. LMFAO>> its nasty shit..
i thought i was buying Fat icecream but its no fat.. and Uhk... so gross. even frozen still mushy..

lifelight are bad copies and infringing on philips patents..
also there lamps are not same quality or color or anything,
and the glass is crap.. IE not Rated for open fixture, i have seen them blow and just as bad as non protected MHP cmh lamps..
nor are there lamps rated ansi or UL.. and they cost more WTF..
if they where better id be on them but they so bad i dont ever mention as a competitor to Philips CMH

as far as the comment about these needing uv block for our eyes..
no your ok.. these lamps are used and desinged for use around humans.. so they have allready looked into that. just dont sit and stare at the arc tube for any lenght of time.. the shear energy is worse than the UV.. its like looking at a laser why do it.. look at ur plants..

 

[C21H30O2]

Try tempered Starphire Glass from PPG. Light transmission qualities almost as good as high-grade acrylic.

thanks for the info can you provide more info on how it doesnt block light perhaps a link because my google search pulled up a lot of other stuff besides product info.

 

[Guest]

Simba -

On the UV block and our eyes. As I understand it, the block is there to protect product and people. Say a retailer was using this bulb in a furntiure store showroom without any UV block there would be a high risk for color fade in the fabrics and such. Also there is the consideration of things ke macular degeneration and such and folks working in a factory say at Boeing would be in an environment similar to outside in the sun. Just a testiment to the high quality spectral output of the bulb. Hence, for indoor purposes it is becoming popular to provide UV block on halide type (high blue/uv) arc tubes. I have some 150w uniform pulse start halide bulbs that I use to suppliment in the cloning/veg chamber (on a digi) and they can be found with or without uv/fade block. I only use the no block!!!!

 

[MPL]

How are the 150w CMH bulbs? Are they the same as the 250w and 400w?

thanks for the info can you provide more info on how it doesnt block light perhaps a link because my google search pulled up a lot of other stuff besides product info.

Check this link out: Starphire

Regular glass slants light toward the green part of the spectrum as well. If you look into a sheet of glass lengthwise, notice how it is a green color?

 

[Guest]

The 150w bulbs are great as well. Just a matter of picking the correct wattage for your space/application. There are also options in the 70-150w range for good digital ballast use.

In regards to the glass discussion. Simax glass (high quality) is usually the lowest absorbtion/distortion. Still too high for me. I have spoken with a local manufacturer of Lexan (polycabonate). They make stuff for headlights and commercial lighting fixtures. They said that the UV tolerance is very low and light interfearance is worse than the highest quality glass. I remember the old AN forum, those crooks were talking everyone gullable enough in to buying these MAX..... 8" and 10" cool tubes made of the highest quality Lexan. Given my tendancy to think for myself, I did days and days of research and calling around. Not one lexan producer would recomend their product for such application. Nor could they order/make any other that would tolerate the heat and UV and not block lots of blue!!!

I ordered my glass 6" tubes from a company called WinShip designs in Orgegon. They cut it to length and finished the ends. No greenish color at all from any angle or edge. I will try to find the graph they sent me on the light blockage. It was almost all at the UV and furthest ends of the spectrum. IMHO the "special" light. That was a few years ago and someone may have come up with a better glass by now.

 

[Guest]

http://www.winshipdesigns.com/

If you feel the need for glass, this company gave me GREAT service. Easier if you call them btw.

Got to go to work!

Peace

 

[MPL]

Alright, if I want a 4K (the spectrum on the 3K is crappy) 150w single-ended CMH bulb, what ballast do I use to run it? I did a few searches on the ANSI codes for the bulbs and didn't find much. I probably don't really know what I'm looking for.

The 150w bulbs are great as well. Just a matter of picking the correct wattage for your space/application. There are also options in the 70-150w range for good digital ballast use.

 

[Guest]

I would check with the folks at the site Simba recomends or google Hatch Transformers as they make good electronic ballasts tuned for the cmh bulbs.

 

[Guest]

On second thought Goodmart lighting sells those hatch ballasts for around 130.00us

 

[MPL]

Woah those ballasts are high. Anything cheaper than can fire them?

On second thought Goodmart lighting sells those hatch ballasts for around 130.00us

 

[greenisgold]

The 150w bulbs are great as well. Just a matter of picking the correct wattage for your space/application. There are also options in the 70-150w range for good digital ballast use.

In regards to the glass discussion. Simax glass (high quality) is usually the lowest absorbtion/distortion. Still too high for me. I have spoken with a local manufacturer of Lexan (polycabonate). They make stuff for headlights and commercial lighting fixtures. They said that the UV tolerance is very low and light interfearance is worse than the highest quality glass. I remember the old AN forum, those crooks were talking everyone gullable enough in to buying these MAX..... 8" and 10" cool tubes made of the highest quality Lexan. Given my tendancy to think for myself, I did days and days of research and calling around. Not one lexan producer would recomend their product for such application. Nor could they order/make any other that would tolerate the heat and UV and not block lots of blue!!!

I ordered my glass 6" tubes from a company called WinShip designs in Orgegon. They cut it to length and finished the ends. No greenish color at all from any angle or edge. I will try to find the graph they sent me on the light blockage. It was almost all at the UV and furthest ends of the spectrum. IMHO the "special" light. That was a few years ago and someone may have come up with a better glass by now.

AN-hahahahahahaha... Marketing at it's finest.

 

[Guest]

No marketing here. Just passing on personal experience! I have thought of purchasing a nice little 150w cmh set-up for a while and have searched for a source. As far as the glass tube goes; they took good care of me and provided a good product. I don't use glass and don't recommend it! For those who insist however, I feel obligated to give a honest bit of advice. I have not bought from Goodmart, can't speak to how they will deal with folks. I haven't used the Hatch Transformer ballast either, again just a bit of reading and research and a high level of expertise in the world of electrical engineering and advanced power supply/modulation. Some of the large building automation systems that I design/install/service make a good amount of this lighting tech look like toys.

The MaxCool or whatever the AN crooks were pushing is just something that I checked out. I am allways skeptical of anything pushed that hard by a marketing firm which is what AN is for the most part. Without the marketing they have nothing over GH, Canna, Anerican Agritech and a whole host of others in the same biz. Yes the others market heavily and such.

I wasn't sure if you were putting the marketing tag on my post or adding afirmation to my statement about the Max.... tubes pushed on the AN forum, by AN.

Peace and good growing.

 

[Ganja Guerilla]

I love this thread, thank you to everyone for contributing, Azeotrope & Simba you have both convinced me to go CMH. And yes it is entirely your fault that I now have to rethink my lighting! funny thing is I don't mind...lol

I have settled on a 6' x 8' space with 6'6" of vertical for plants and lights and growing medium. Now I haven't decided on growing method yet other then flowering will be in hydro. What I'm wondering is what would be the best use of these CMH lamps is this size of grow.

Here is what I think I might do, run 6 tables, bubblers, whatevers of 2'x3' in size around the outside of the space and light with 7 400W CMH just above the canopy.



My questions are:
1. What type of a reflector should I be thinking of for this? If I can get away with out air cooling or running an AC it would be a bonus. I have been looking for a small parabolic but haven't had any luck yet.

2. With the size and layout as above, what growing style would lend it self best to the CMH? SOG, SCROG, bushes?...

3. Ummm I know I had 3 questions but I lost one somewhere between here and the pipe...

Any feedback is welcome...
GG

 

[Guest]

I like the propsed layout as above. I would suggest that either a SOG, or SCROG would do well. I used to have a 4x6' area that I scrogged under cmh (2x400w) and with 4 - 6 clones of nl5xhaze got 1 1/2lbs easliy. I think it boils down to which ever you prefer and maybe the law in regards to plant count where you live. You will find the stretch to be reduced and plants to be more inclined to bush out a bit so it is easy to veg in a screen a little longer and load it just the way you want it! Now some strains like the JhonnyBlaze I have going will stretch more no matter what! Just not as much in flower and less in veg than under a hps.

You will find less need if any for glass/air cooling with the cmh bulbs.

I am envious of the amount of space you have there and wish you much green goodness!!

 

[greenisgold]

No marketing here. Just passing on personal experience! I have thought of purchasing a nice little 150w cmh set-up for a while and have searched for a source. As far as the glass tube goes; they took good care of me and provided a good product. I don't use glass and don't recommend it! For those who insist however, I feel obligated to give a honest bit of advice. I have not bought from Goodmart, can't speak to how they will deal with folks. I haven't used the Hatch Transformer ballast either, again just a bit of reading and research and a high level of expertise in the world of electrical engineering and advanced power supply/modulation. Some of the large building automation systems that I design/install/service make a good amount of this lighting tech look like toys.

The MaxCool or whatever the AN crooks were pushing is just something that I checked out. I am allways skeptical of anything pushed that hard by a marketing firm which is what AN is for the most part. Without the marketing they have nothing over GH, Canna, Anerican Agritech and a whole host of others in the same biz. Yes the others market heavily and such.

I wasn't sure if you were putting the marketing tag on my post or adding afirmation to my statement about the Max.... tubes pushed on the AN forum, by AN.

Peace and good growing.

What I meant is AN is a co. that has marketing down, and I have never bought any of their products (never will) because I feal most of it is hype.
But that is a whole other topic. Sorry to sway.
Peace