Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[FreezerBoy]

Not quite what you were asking for but, I've been growing a T*Haze x Skunk #1. About a month ago, I started a clone to take it's mothers place when she's done flowering. It's hardly a controlled experiment. The 250 CMH is in my freezer in the garage. The clone, upstairs in a closet with a 150 hps

In each instance, 150 Clone is first or top example followed by Mom under a 250 CMH:

@ 18 days. HPS is taller but, has no more nodes.


HPS @39 days. CMH @ 37. Note the screen material is the same 1 inch mesh in each and how the CMH stalk is thicker.


HPS @37 days, CMH @ 30 days


And, apropos of nothing, NOT a clone but, another Thunk allowed to flower under HPS. I've yet to see that kind of wispy growth with the CMH


Again, not really what you asked for and hardly a fair comparison. I'm sure the wattage difference plays a large part. I do feel as though I'm getting thicker, denser growth with the CMH. I'm happy.

 

[duddits]

I'm curious... has anyone done a documented side by side CMH vs HPS grow comparison? The sort with clones from the same plant, identical mediums, identical feeding, same wattage of light on both sides, etc. to see what difference there was in the results between the CMH and HPS results?

Just came across
this link:

 

[MPL]

A perfectly fair question.

I know that in my case the buds look as they do because it's my first grow. I also know that if you actually grab and squeeze the buds, they are quite hard. The samples I've tried have also been very good.

I don't know if you've looked through this whole thread, but there are quite a few pictures that show some very, very nice, dense looking buds that were grown under a CMH.

I too would like to see a side-by-side comparison.

I'm curious... has anyone done a documented side by side CMH vs HPS grow comparison? The sort with clones from the same plant, identical mediums, identical feeding, same wattage of light on both sides, etc. to see what difference there was in the results between the CMH and HPS results?
I know this was done to compare LED to HPS in the Micro section but I haven't seen one of these documented comparisons for CMH vs HPS.

The reason I ask about this is... well, to be totally blunt about it...
In almost all the pics I've seen from CMH grows the plants look more leafy and stretchy, and the buds look smaller and less trich coated than what I would expect to see from equal wattage of HPS light. Mind you this may just be the genetics of the plant and grower errors in mediums and feeding but it does make me wonder.
I know that on paper a CMH looks far superior to a HPS, but the results never seem to look as good as what I would expect from an equal wattage HPS in the pics I've seen.


So I'm wondering, has anyone ever done a documented grow with a side by side comparison of CMH vs HPS to see what the results are like? If so, I'd love to get a link to that grow to settle my mind about this

 

[Harry Gypsna]

I just want to mention for all my fellow UK growers,that the phillips mastercolour CMH lamp is now on sale at greens horticulture
www.greenshorticulture.co.uk
I may give it a whirl soon.....
Edit...maybe not they dont do 600's yet
EDIT I am now informed this isnt the right bulb so dont bother... ill call him tomorrow and let him know because on his website he says his supplier said a sunmaster 4000k mh would be better than that- well ill let him know its the wrong CMH and see what he says..

 

[simba]

Micro i did with a buddy but cant post.. for obv legal reasons
thats why i converted and promoted cmh so hard after seeing for my self.. (if yall remember i put 90% of USA avail nutes head to head)
(my test was CMH, HPS, Eye-Blue, Real Sun..all in Higromite using GH maxi grow and bloom no addys except silica..robv the sun won then CMH
(the sun one was the only one in a lil diff area but same air and temps and Same Res the res was also dumped every few days.. because the plants under cmh and SUN where eating more than the HPS one.. and that would have had Deficiencies by the end of a full week on the cmh and sun plants..

Freezerboy.. Great comparison picks.. Shows the energy emited is Far more usable. and is used..

To all DO NOT DEVIATE from the Part numbers we recomend.. If you can find the part number localy buy it.. we dont care.. as long as u get the right one..

as far as the Leafe to flower ratio..
honestly peopel are Veging To Long..
growing under HPS is not the same as CMH or outdoor Sun..
you need to veg longer under hps just cause the energy emited is not Full spd.. (short version)
thats why when you veg a cmh and HPS the same the CMH will be a Bush.. so you veg cmh shorter and get same results.> again shortened version..


Euro Customers DO NOT BUY THE GREENS HORTI Philips CMH..ITS THE WRONG ONE> >
the thing on cmh and philips cmh there are Features on the bulb we need..
the lamp we want is a
CMH, 4K, open fixture rated..

I have scoured the Worlds CMH lamps the city was looked at same time as retro white..unless a new cmh comes out the retro white and CMH MHP(USA Versions are the Only option IN CMH 250, 400 watt..

lets compare the two..( USA RETRO WHITE and greens horti )
both philips obv..

cmh retrowhite .............................................Greens horti

..................part#CDM250S50/hor/4k/alto....-..MASTER_CityWhite_CDO_TT_250W_828_E40_SLV
Life..........................20,0000...................................16,000
Init lumen..................20,750....................................22,500
mean lumen................16,600..................................*14,000ish*(not confirmed waiting on Philips UK)
lumen Maint................85%.....................................*75%**(not confirmed waiting on Philips UK)
Kelvin.......................4,000K....................................2,800K
CRI............................85........................................85
Open Fixture................YES......................................NO
(adv tech needs to update there site the lumen on the 250 is wrong on the site)
comparison of Lamp and SPD>>
shortest way of saying it the Euro City white is like HPS half of its overal energy is wasted in Unuesable ranges..it is better than hps though but not same as USA 4K Versions,
when you compare SPD you view the Whole SPD and then the % in the 500-600Ish range.. (ya the retro does wastes some but nothing like the city or hps %)

PDFs for both...
CMH RETRO WHITE.....http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/p-5497.pdf
Master city white.......http://advancedtechlighting.com/pdf/MASTER_CityWhite_CDO_TT_250W_828_E40_SLV.pdf


also update Philips to announce 144 LPW CMH>> (the spd we saw we dont like for horti but its highest FULL SPD LPW out there, Beats RF Induction SULFUR PLasma YA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
super energy efficient for Home light use.. better than CFL Hands down..

 

[OsWiZzLe]

I'm curious... has anyone done a documented side by side CMH vs HPS grow comparison? The sort with clones from the same plant, identical mediums, identical feeding, same wattage of light on both sides, etc. to see what difference there was in the results between the CMH and HPS results?
I know this was done to compare LED to HPS in the Micro section but I haven't seen one of these documented comparisons for CMH vs HPS.

The reason I ask about this is... well, to be totally blunt about it...
In almost all the pics I've seen from CMH grows the plants look more leafy and stretchy, and the buds look smaller and less trich coated than what I would expect to see from equal wattage of HPS light. Mind you this may just be the genetics of the plant and grower errors in mediums and feeding but it does make me wonder.
I know that on paper a CMH looks far superior to a HPS, but the results never seem to look as good as what I would expect from an equal wattage HPS in the pics I've seen.


So I'm wondering, has anyone ever done a documented grow with a side by side comparison of CMH vs HPS to see what the results are like? If so, I'd love to get a link to that grow to settle my mind about this

Mannn...the CMH does make your shit way leafy.....there bomb for Veg....switch to the Solarmax Bulbs for flowering all those other colors in the CMH bulb are not good for flowqring...u wont get donkey dicks with those lights...

 

[nightcrawler]

Mannn...the CMH does make your shit way leafy.....there bomb for Veg....switch to the Solarmax Bulbs for flowering all those other colors in the CMH bulb are not good for flowqring...u wont get donkey dicks with those lights...

so what do u suggest for flowering?

 

[OsWiZzLe]

so what do u suggest for flowering?

Bread and Butte....HPS...focuses just on buds not on leaves and stems for real....I CMH is nice..dont get me wrong i'm not bashing it all...for Vegging it kicks ass...I'm not try to sell anything either bro...keep that mind..no offense Simba...but he's pushing these bulbs ..so theres a conflict of interest u feel me..



Get one for yourself and try it....you'll see...your yield will take a big hit

 

[Guest]

Mannn...the CMH does make your shit way leafy.....there bomb for Veg....switch to the Solarmax Bulbs for flowering all those other colors in the CMH bulb are not good for flowqring...u wont get donkey dicks with those lights...

....
The reason I ask about this is... well, to be totally blunt about it...
In almost all the pics I've seen from CMH grows the plants look more leafy and stretchy, and the buds look smaller and less trich coated than what I would expect to see from equal wattage of HPS light....

Really?

Day 27 @ 12/12:

I have a high resolution of this pic if you want.

 

[Guest]

 

[nightcrawler]

Bread and Butte....HPS...focuses just on buds not on leaves and stems for real....I CMH is nice..dont get me wrong i'm not bashing it all...for Vegging it kicks ass...I'm not try to sell anything either bro...keep that mind..no offense Simba...but he's pushing these bulbs ..so theres a conflict of interest u feel me..



Get one for yourself and try it....you'll see...your yield will take a big hit

OK ill grab an HPS bulb for flowering. and only use the CMH for vegging

 

[00420]

hey simba whats the best hood option for the cmh in a multi light setup i was thinking the supersun 2......... ?

all so has anyone ordered more then 1 multi ballast kits from the link in simba's sig..... i was wondering what shipping cost are when i put in 1 ballast & 1 bulb it said $14 then i added 3 of each & it went to $16, shipping cant be $16 on 4 ballast n 4 bulb's

 

[Cali smoke]

Here's some harvested satori (harvested at around 70 days), so Mr. Micro, I'll have to disagree with you on your trichome coverage opinion, though I do agree, it's pretty leafy and not as dense as I hoped. This was using a single 400w cmh 12/12.

It was my first grow and I was growing in 2 gallon hempy buckets, so there are a few factors involved.

I'm currently growing in 5 gallon smart pots vegging under a single 400w and then for flower, i'll use two 400w cmh's so we'll see if the buds fatten up.

PEACE ALL -CS-

 

[simba]

00420 when it comes to reflectors.. im not hard promoting any LOL.. but i have heard good about SS2 from peeps here and out there.. i also like the orgina supersun v1.. non dimpled.. also cheap Baking pans work great.. compared to 80 buck ones..
that i will be on soon though.. (lookin at bell again.. kept hearing bout them from euro but nothing here)

reflector testing and that stuff is coming soon.. even though its a big thing its also the one to do last after picking the bulb (focusing reasons.. dif arc tube sizes etc)

ya, i have to say Adv Tech is not out to profiteer..
order 4 of each then great deal. Ay?
ya the actually shipping costs would be higher as they would have to have 2 boxes at that point but im sure they considered the fact at that point you ordered X number and that extra profit comes into play for the customers benefit.. .. if that makes sense..

Cali,, NICE!!!!!!!!!!!

as far as me promoting cmh.. ya i do.. but remember HPS and MH have a HIGHER profit margin hands down.. with that said.. cmh would have to move mass qty to make up for the profit difference and then you better be promoting something good or Everyone would reject it not the 1%ers out there Not a diss to anyone.. you rethink some of your growing habits liek that super long veg time..
also to the leaf ratio.. that scraggly thing up there (HPS) has no infrastructure to produce heavy many flower sites or support a big yield cmh some more leaves that will support and feed whats needed (ya some have to many leafs from to long veg).. short version.. (also you are forgeting the Plants genetics.. not only the strain but the (dam i forgot the word) indicas are BUSHs by nature.. so if your growing that and comparing to Sativia ya there will be more but to long veg again on some of these pics posted..
also ask adv tech for hps bulbs.. they have i think 100+super hps (son t plus) and refuse to sell..and that makes them more money on each one and they allready spent it and wont try to recover it.. (there pushing them for Industrial users to recover there moneys not worht screwin horti users.. )

 

[00420]

i agree with you on them being overrated...

but when u live where its 105+ 3/4's of the summer hoods are a must...a/c 24/7 is killing my pg&e bill...i'd rather pay 900 once then 900 every month
i just wanted to make sure the super sun 2 was a ok hood for the bulb.... i know u said something about the way it releases heat it need to be vented on the top or sumthing like that... i dont have time to reread the 1400 post or i would. im ordering 2nite ..........

 

[simba]

ya those temps you need to drop some $$.. for hoods with venting.. go with SS1 V1 or the SS2.. Pico likes the SS2.. i haven't experienced it yet to agree vs SS1 V1 (I have SS1 V1 but only cause it was freebie)
Ya the heat basically rises off the lamps more than being thrown to the ground..

ya they may ask for 20 bucks more but i doubt any more than that.(it depends where you live. if that.. (im sure they will find the cheapest way to get it to you without sacrafising safety or product...
at Qty of 10 ballast.. + 6 bulbs.. . im sure that little loss in the shipping is better than loosing out.. on a sale.. if that makes sense.. there goal in the end is to move mass qty so they can offer stores better prices so they can charge the same retail but make more than they are now.. without jacking up pricing cause that in the end only limits everything.. and prevents allot of people from even starting..
also on an order like that you should get a quote any ways.. but im sure the savings offered in the quote would be the same as online price with that 16 plus a 20 extra.. and that still beats everyone else..
sorry im super tired.. so im not making to much sense.basically think of it of qty discount

 

[NorCalFor20]

simba, just got mine today- thanks! nice fast shipping- I ordered my ballast 3 days before I ordered the cmh and it still got here before the rest of my stuff. We'll see how it works. I do have a question- its a general known fact now that the CMH is the best veg bulb. Should I use the CMH all the way through or switch to hps for flower? I was thinking also about trying CMH one day then the next day use HPS to simulate weather conditions... or maybe im just blazed thinking crazy

 

[00420]

simba, just got mine today- thanks! nice fast shipping- I ordered my ballast 3 days before I ordered the cmh and it still got here before the rest of my stuff. We'll see how it works. I do have a question- its a general known fact now that the CMH is the best veg bulb. Should I use the CMH all the way through or switch to hps for flower? I was thinking also about trying CMH one day then the next day use HPS to simulate weather conditions... or maybe im just blazed thinking crazy

switching bulbs everyday would jus be to much.......

if i where to do it i would veg with cmh, first 2 weeks hps then go back to cmh, that way u still get your strech.... im gonna mix mine up ( everyotherone )but all be running with multi hoods

 

[Guest]

switching bulbs everyday would jus be to much.......

if i where to do it i would veg with cmh, first 2 weeks hps then go back to cmh, that way u still get your strech.... im gonna mix mine up ( everyotherone )but all be running with multi hoods

Oh yeah, because "stretch" is something we all want! Everybody wants tall, lanky plants that fall over and yield pitifully. You're actually recommending people to switch from hps, to cmh in flower? Do you have any idea of what you're talking about? Its funny how the majority of the marijuana growers in the world do not switch in the manner you recommend. Now isnt that funny?

Its always the young and inexperienced guys who try to make things way more complicated, then they need to be.


I love your signature! Are you that insecure about your knowledge, that you have to post it up for everybody to see? Thats kind of pathetic man.

 

[Cali smoke]

simba, you've stated that the cmh outputs a lot of uv, my question is, will two 400w's cause the trichomes to rupture?