Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Beta Test Team]

Note the Welthink ballast will produce about 4% less umol/s than a Philips ballast for a 315W lamp (like the Philips CMH lamps under discussion here).

That is true with their 1st gen, their 2nd gen is as good as Philips. Now their 315W CMH is 3rd gen.

Can you please expand on that claim with regard to the ballast, citing the data to prove the increase?

By the way, I'm totally surprised the username "CMH" hasn't been taken yet, wow!

Also, do you work for Welthink? Who do you work for, or do you own a company? (It's clear you're not just randomly posting here.)

Maybe here? http://www.welthinkusa.com/

Thanks

 

[Mikell]

I love how this thread continues to provide so much authoritative information with little or nothing to back it up.

So, instead of being a smartass contributing nothing (which, to be fair, I've been guilty of), why not highlight some of the claims you find dubious?

 

[HorseBadoritiz]

Doesn't Cycloptics use Welthinks?

 

[Beta Test Team]

Only for Greenbeams to offer 120v plug-and-play ballast, not for any other application. It's a stopgap solution so they can offer 120v that's UL listed and plug-and-play.

But like rives (or Jnnnn, or someone) wrote, using a transformer with Philips ballast is likely a better route at this time. Unless this new version of Welthink does what CMH is claiming, but then, one still needs to consider QC/QA of Philips vs. Welthink.

We use Philips with Greenbeams, and will always do so if we don't use GEL CeramaTek ballast instead.

 

[Beta Test Team]

Doesn't Cycloptics use Welthinks?

I forgot to mention GEL brand ballast. Cyclotpics offers their CeramaTek ballast, that ballast has better specs than the Philips e-Vision:

https://www.cycloptics.com/all-bright-ballasts

We would have chosen GEL for our 12 Greenbeams, but their price vs. Philips was just high enough to not warrant it for us at this time. That said, GEL sure looks nice.

 

[iBogart]

You can find some 315W CMH digital ballasts (brand new or used) on eBay. Here is one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/UL-CUL-list...c-metal-halide-digital-ballast-/281514923544?

That's a great deal. So do you know what gen that Welthink in the listing is?

Can I run MH or HPS bulbs off this ballast. If so, what wattage. (probably sounds like a dumb question)

So with this ballast, all I would need is the mogul socket adapter, a 315 bulb and a hood and I'm Eddie Van Halen on Jim Beam?

thanks

 

[flat9]

I forgot to mention GEL brand ballast. Cyclotpics offers their CeramaTek ballast, that ballast has better specs than the Philips e-Vision:

https://www.cycloptics.com/all-bright-ballasts

We would have chosen GEL for our 12 Greenbeams, but their price vs. Philips was just high enough to not warrant it for us at this time. That said, GEL sure looks nice.

What do they cost w/ the Greenbeams reflector + bulb?

 

[Beta Test Team]

You'd have to ask Cycloptics for more accurate pricing, but if I recall, it was around $100 extra per unit to get the GEL instead of Philips ballast.

 

[flat9]

That's probably worth it. GEL says they extend the life of the bulb substantially (can anyone verify this?).

 

[Beta Test Team]

GEL does extend the useful-life, as well as it uses only 16W vs 24W for the Philips (a big deal if you're using hundreds of Greenbeams). The GEL had to be re-configured/programmed to optimize its use for Greenbeams, so now the GEL is really a good option.

Well, at $100 extra per unit, and we purchased 12 units, that's an extra $1,200, which wasn't worth it to us at that time. Though, we would like to test out the GEL, that's for sure.

 

[HendrikOl]

I want to switch over to 315w Philips cdm. I would only use cdm in my flowering room.

Would you recommend using the 942/4200k or the 930/3000k bulbs or a mix of both for flowering?

Furthermore do you recommend using the PGZ or the PGZX socket version of this bulb?

I am not using reflectors, just bare bulbs in my vertical grow.

The bulbs can burst and hence I should use PGZX as I am not running them in an enclosed housing but is it really necessary?

Furthermore I read that one 315w cdm can replace a 600w hps bulb in terms of performance, is this correct?

 

[Jhhnn]

GEL does extend the useful-life, as well as it uses only 16W vs 24W for the Philips (a big deal if you're using hundreds of Greenbeams). The GEL had to be re-configured/programmed to optimize its use for Greenbeams, so now the GEL is really a good option.

Well, at $100 extra per unit, and we purchased 12 units, that's an extra $1,200, which wasn't worth it to us at that time. Though, we would like to test out the GEL, that's for sure.

I don't understand the re-configured/programmed part. Can you explain?

 

[flat9]

GEL does extend the useful-life, as well as it uses only 16W vs 24W for the Philips (a big deal if you're using hundreds of Greenbeams). The GEL had to be re-configured/programmed to optimize its use for Greenbeams, so now the GEL is really a good option.

Well, at $100 extra per unit, and we purchased 12 units, that's an extra $1,200, which wasn't worth it to us at that time. Though, we would like to test out the GEL, that's for sure.

My thought was that at $70 per bulb or whatever it currently is, after burning through a few bulbs you'd pay it off. By the way what is your grow space like in terms of footprint?

 

[Beta Test Team]

GEL does extend the useful-life, as well as it uses only 16W vs 24W for the Philips (a big deal if you're using hundreds of Greenbeams). The GEL had to be re-configured/programmed to optimize its use for Greenbeams, so now the GEL is really a good option.

Well, at $100 extra per unit, and we purchased 12 units, that's an extra $1,200, which wasn't worth it to us at that time. Though, we would like to test out the GEL, that's for sure.

I don't understand the re-configured/programmed part. Can you explain?

Hi Jhhnn. If I recall corretly it had to due with operating the ballast at a distance from the lamp. When the first Cycloptics brand units sold with GEL the ballasts were not programmed to operate the lamp at 27 feet away (as is claimed to be possible).

So GEL had to reprogram the CeramaTek ballast as used by Cycloptics to allow for operating the lamp 27' from the ballast.

However, I could be misremembering the reason why they had to be worked on.

 

[Beta Test Team]

GEL does extend the useful-life, as well as it uses only 16W vs 24W for the Philips (a big deal if you're using hundreds of Greenbeams). The GEL had to be re-configured/programmed to optimize its use for Greenbeams, so now the GEL is really a good option.

Well, at $100 extra per unit, and we purchased 12 units, that's an extra $1,200, which wasn't worth it to us at that time. Though, we would like to test out the GEL, that's for sure.

My thought was that at $70 per bulb or whatever it currently is, after burning through a few bulbs you'd pay it off. By the way what is your grow space like in terms of footprint?

Yea, it would, and there are other benefits to using GEL (like the lower wattage draw). But the up front cost was too great for us at that time, considering the 12 units (with Philips e-Vision ballasts) came to $5,040. We couldn't justify spending another $1,200 at that time on top of that, at that time.

The canopy that will be used for is 6'x8', in a approx. 10' by 12' room. Those 12 units over that area in that room (accounting for ceiling, wall and floor reflection), provide min/max of 730 to 770 PPF 61" from the aperture, and min/max of 790 to 850 PPF 22" from the aperture.

 

[rives]

I want to switch over to 315w Philips cdm. I would only use cdm in my flowering room.

Would you recommend using the 942/4200k or the 930/3000k bulbs or a mix of both for flowering?

Furthermore do you recommend using the PGZ or the PGZX socket version of this bulb?

I am not using reflectors, just bare bulbs in my vertical grow.

The bulbs can burst and hence I should use PGZX as I am not running them in an enclosed housing but is it really necessary?

Furthermore I read that one 315w cdm can replace a 600w hps bulb in terms of performance, is this correct?

I use the 930 for flowering and have been very happy with the results. Some others have used the 942 and also liked their results. Personally, I would consider the 942 to be more of a veg lamp, but many people like them all the way through. Pick one.

Yes, you absolutely want to use the T12, double-jacketed version of the lamp if you are running bare-bulb. The internal pressures of the CDM lamps are much higher than other lamps (ranging up to 2500-3000 psi) and can grenade in spectacular fashion. Take a look at Krunch's recent thread to see what can happen.

I've never used a 600w HPS, but wouldn't be surprised if they are roughly comparable. The difference between the 315 and a 400w HPS is huge.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hi Jhhnn. If I recall corretly it had to due with operating the ballast at a distance from the lamp. When the first Cycloptics brand units sold with GEL the ballasts were not programmed to operate the lamp at 27 feet away (as is claimed to be possible).

So GEL had to reprogram the CeramaTek ballast as used by Cycloptics to allow for operating the lamp 27' from the ballast.

However, I could be misremembering the reason why they had to be worked on.

Thank you. That makes sense considering that GEL developed the ballast for commercial lighting fixtures where remote ballasts are rarely used. It apparently wasn't even a consideration in the original development.

It seems likely that the 27' spec came after the firmware change. In the greater scheme of things, growers aren't that big a market, but sales are sales & they want all they can get.

 

[Jhhnn]

I want to switch over to 315w Philips cdm. I would only use cdm in my flowering room.

Would you recommend using the 942/4200k or the 930/3000k bulbs or a mix of both for flowering?

Furthermore do you recommend using the PGZ or the PGZX socket version of this bulb?

I am not using reflectors, just bare bulbs in my vertical grow.

The bulbs can burst and hence I should use PGZX as I am not running them in an enclosed housing but is it really necessary?

Furthermore I read that one 315w cdm can replace a 600w hps bulb in terms of performance, is this correct?

Beyond what rives offered, you want the PGZX sockets if you can get them. That way, only open fixture rated protected lamps will fit, the T12's rives mentioned. PGZX lamps will fit PGZ sockets, but not vice-versa.

Or you can use the open rated mogul base 315/942 in any mogul socket.

 

[Beta Test Team]

Thank you. That makes sense considering that GEL developed the ballast for commercial lighting fixtures where remote ballasts are rarely used. It apparently wasn't even a consideration in the original development.

It seems likely that the 27' spec came after the firmware change. In the greater scheme of things, growers aren't that big a market, but sales are sales & they want all they can get.

Yes, that does ring a bell, "firmware." I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[HorseBadoritiz]

Ho, ho, ho!

https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop...system-lec-630-light-emitting-ceramic-fixture