cation exchange capacity / coco article beginner friendly

[Cannoiseur]

haha yep, heard both phrases as definitions for it. wonder which one is the original....

 

[coconaut]

The original is pondus Hydrogenii.
p[H] measures the concentration of H+ ions
pH measures the hydrogen ion activity in solution.

 

[LJB]

These are the best - i.e. most informative / easiest to understand - articles that I've found on the subject of Cation Exchange Capacity.

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/MauiSoil/c_nutrients03.aspx

http://soils.tfrec.wsu.edu/webnutrit...rops/04CEC.htm

http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_E...Simplified.htm

http://www.home-garden-soil-improvem...-exchange.html

edit: it also appears the owners of these sites don't want to be linked to on icmag.com - three have dissapeared since I posted this.

 

[LJB]

If you live anywhere near a pet store that sells fish and aquarium supplies, bring some water from your source and they might test it for free.

Around here, I was unable to find a simple chlorine test kit, even at the pool supply stores.

However the fine people at PetSmart were very accommodating. I brought a thermos full of tap water in and their fish guy tested the chlorine level. PetSmart and Petco apparently no longer carry the inexpensive paper test strips.

 

[Chimney]

fgfdgdf

 

[*mistress*]

This guy is all over the threads telling people they can use chlorinated water. Quit spreading this bad advice. Even if you CAN use it, why would you?

fwiw...
technaflora magical ingredients:
derived from:

...calcium chloride...

yes, they use chloride, in small amount. though wont this in many 'hydro' nutes, they can be found in many greenhouse grade nutes...

not much magnesium-nitrate in many 'hydro' nutes either, but widely used in ag crop production... (mag-nit also ingredient in magical)

enjo your garden!

 

[Chimney]

dfgdfg

 

[coconaut]

Traces of Radium and Uranium increase the growth rate of plants too, but I will not be missing them any more than Chlorine (not Chloride) in my water. I like to keep variables to a minimum, I guess to each his own.

It's actually dichlorine, not chlorine, if you want to be technical.
And why don't you withhold chromium and selenium, those elements also increase the growth rate of plants, maybe you wont miss them either.

 

[Chimney]

fgdfgdf

 

[coconaut]

Yes, in your water supply, tap water is an excellent source of trace minerals.

 

[Chimney]

dfgdfg

 

[krunchbubble]

Yes, chlorine only affects the microheard, QUOTE]



only? this is a big deal to someone who is using beneficials. someone filling 200 gallons a week with great white mychorizal that cost $65+ a week, would really give a shit that there micro heard is getting killed almost immediately when it hits the chlorinated infested water.

you should be ashamed of yourself post such misleading information, are you mistresses alter handle? and if your in any way related to coconot medium, your shit sucks......

 

[coconaut]

only? this is a big deal to someone who is using beneficials. someone filling 200 gallons a week with great white mychorizal that cost $65+ a week, would really give a shit that there micro heard is getting killed almost immediately when it hits the chlorinated infested water.

you should be ashamed of yourself post such misleading information, are you mistresses alter handle? and if your in any way related to coconot medium, your shit sucks......

Please don't take my comments out of context.
You quoted a section from my post (#18), this post was a reply to GrnMtnGrwr's post # 16.

So you're basically saying that chlorine only affects the microherd? Does this mean that if growing hydro, there's no point in letting the water sit?

As I understood GrnMtnGrwr, I believed he was asking if chlorine would have effects on other parts of his grow. (For example, that maybe chlorine would cause nutrients to precipitate from solution)
My response was only to imply that chlorine will only effect the organic matter it comes in contact with.

Now as for your 200 gallons and $65 of junk. If tap water contains 5ppm of chlorine, how is 5 gallons different than 5000 gallons?
The concentration of chlorine in your 200 gallons is the same concentration that's in my 40 gallon res.
And you inoculate your res water at every water change/fill?
that sounds like a waste,
When prepping coco, add some organic matter, and inoculate then. Let sit and that shit will grow on it's own and reproduce, it's what it does.
And again, your great white stuff isn't dying as soon as it hits the water, the concentration of chlorine is SOOOOO small. it's not going to kill it.
I haven't the slightest amount of motivation to try and convince you any further.
Goodluck to ya.

 

[*mistress*]

Yes, chlorine only affects the microheard,

only? this is a big deal to someone who is using beneficials. someone filling 200 gallons a week with great white mychorizal that cost $65+ a week

waste of funds...
myco seems 1 of biggest wastes ever in hydro.
plants grow just beautifully w/out ever considering myco.

used to add myco tabs, by same comp... compare to plants w/out myco added... same plant, or non-myco healthier...

would really give a shit that there micro heard is getting killed almost immediately when it hits the chlorinated infested water.

growing plants, not myco/microbes... full strength, water soluble fertilizer gets thru root cell wall via osmosis & feeds plants.

myco, presumably, convert organic mattter to ionic form that plants can use.

if water-soluble ferts already given, & minimal to no organic matter in media, total waste of resources to insert organisms...

plants dont eat myco/microbes, the assimilate non-organic cations & anions by process of simple osmosis...

you should be ashamed of yourself post such misleading information, are you mistresses alter handle?

the troll strikes again!... w/ full account of wasting coins on irrelevant, & unseen creatures... are these supposed micro-organisms counted weekly?

absolutely no way to verify their efficacy... ieg, how many organisms required to convert x-amount of organic matter into exactly which ionic element for plant to assimilate?

in what manner, exactly, or precisely, can gardeners calculate how well their 65-coin-week jones has been beneficial to their garden?

please advise how determine adding myco to hydro system (that is leached daily) is beneficial?

& why add weekly? is that how long they live? or, just like pouring coins into bottomless hole?

answer to that probably not forthcoming... however, can accurately calculate how much npk-ca-mg-s plant uses over same period.

enjoy your garden!

 

[coconaut]

And I have nothing to do with coconot, I brainstormed up this brilliant handle about two weeks before hearing of coconot.
I still like my username though, it's kinda like astronaut, but instead I'm exploring the final frontier.. of coco.

 

[guest1ab]

Thanks!

 

[captain.koons]

If you really want make sure.. you can buy chlorine/chloramine removers from aquarium supply stores.

The secret ingredient to water conditioners sold for treating tap water is sodium the sodium reacts to chlorine and creates table salt. Table salt and even sodium (beyond trace amounts) is a big no no for plants.

If you ran a pot under the tap for an hour or two, that would probably kill most of the microheard, but even still you could never sterilize something with just tapwater.

Killing microbes and blanching aren't the same thing, bub. If you wanted to use your argument more wisely you would say the chlorine is meant to kill or control the minimal amount of microbes found in the untreated water // tap water isn't intended to be used as a antiseptic solution.

Your argument is like saying "I get good results not doing things in a scientifically sound manner, therefore they are scientifically sound."

 

[captain.koons]

Yes, in your water supply, tap water is an excellent source of trace minerals.

Another piece of scientifically unsound advice. Maybe your tap water is fine and dandy but I prefer adding my trace minerals and so should anyone who doesn't have ~50ppm tap water. I'd RO my water either way.

Yes, chlorine only affects the microheard, if I remember correctly it's not the actual chlorine, but when chlorine is added to water it causes chemical reactions that produce some kind of acid that disrupts the cell walls of living organisms.

Chlorine is a very powerful oxidant as you seem to have not taken high school chemistry you can compare it to hydrogen peroxide, you know that stuff that bubbles when you put it on your cuts and scrapes?

It doesn't need water added to it to react the water is there so when you put it on your elbow you don't get a chemical skin peel.

Now that you know what chlorine is and how it works, tell me how one can say chlorine can only effect the micro-herd? The amounts in tap water may be "safe" for plants but oxidants are indiscriminate killers.

 

[coconaut]

The secret ingredient to water conditioners sold for treating tap water is sodium the sodium reacts to chlorine and creates table salt. Table salt and even sodium (beyond trace amounts) is a big no no for plants.

What secret ingredient? Are you refering to sodium thiosulfate? That's the 'secret ingredient' in dechlorination products.
There's a couple others too but they all work they same. Yes, it contains sodium, but it's in compound form. When combined with chlorine it does not form table salt. The chemical reaction is;
Na2S2O3 + HOCl > Na2SO4 + S + HCl

Chlorine is a very powerful oxidant as you seem to have not taken high school chemistry you can compare it to hydrogen peroxide, you know that stuff that bubbles when you put it on your cuts and scrapes?

It doesn't need water added to it to react the water is there so when you put it on your elbow you don't get a chemical skin peel.

You're comparing h2o2 and chlorine and then saying I seem to have not taken high school chem. HAHA
Are you saying chlorine doesn't need water added or hydrogen peroxide doesn't need water added?
Because you're wrong either way.
100% hydrogen peroxide contains no h2o, it contains only h2o2.
It just happens that when you purchase h2o2 it comes in diluted form. I wouldn't suggest putting undiluted h2o2 on your elbow.
Chlorine doesn't have any water, in fact once chlorine is added to water it goes through a chemical change and is no longer a chloride molecule, but becomes hydrochloric acid (HCl) and hypochlorous acid(HOCl).


And btw, you really need to work on your metaphors.

 

[gaiusmarius]

well this is all very interesting, i'm just glad i have good quality tap water and don't have to worry about poison being added to my water supply by the govmint, roflmao.

i like the info at the beginning, but this whole argument about chlorine has been pretty lame. in the end one water source will be different from another, some places do need to use ro filters, some places don't and everything in between, ie letting the water sit or going part part ro/tap. most coco growers have a tank anyway, so the water will autoatically end up sitting there for a while and only the first watering will have fresh tap in it.

i have noticed that the canna coco A+B works perfectly as a stand alone nute in my tap water, but that doesn't make it the same all over the world. people tend to forget that there are so many variables in al the different setups etc, even if we all use coco, it's not all the same type either. so inform yourself about your tap water and whats in it and then act accordingly, maybe you will end up using 50/50 tap/ro or maybe full ro in which case you will have to add trace elements. basically if you can drink your water it should be ok for growing in too. i do know that when i tried pure ro water with A+B nutes only, the plants started to look like they were missing something, once i mixed the ro with tap water the problems cleared right up, that's why the comment about the trace elements. but even this will depend on what brand nutes you use.

good growings all