Can't tell if you have root rot or the brown slime algae, come on in ?!

[richyrich]

Darn, lol, I wanted infected plants. What a thing to ask for, hahaha.

Oh ya, I forgot about about the trellis. I know how that goes. I use them the same way. There ain't no way getting them out of there.

Hmmm, somehow we have to treat the potted roots. Ya, a top soak is the only seemingly way at this time. Is there any way to plug the drains in the pots for like 5 minutes with duct tape or something. Time to get ghetto genius, lol. We need a good few minutes of contact time.

That sounds interesting with your recent experiment. Good going brother, that's the kind of work it takes. Don't get discouraged. Keep on going.

I'm curious about the perlite. I've never grown in pure perlite. I have used hydroton plenty of times. My assumption is perlite drains faster and would need frequent fertigating. By any chance, have you guys played with the drip timing in your systems. Less frequent or more frequent. I'm pretty sure you already know this, but it's easy to get root rot once you let your roots dry out one time on accident. That can happen by leaving a pump or timer unplugged just one time. Or fertigating to far apart. Likewise, fertigating to frequently can drown the roots and also cause root rot. Just ruling out.

I guess the easiest way to rule out, is to ask if you guys have been using the same timing frequency as you did before the cursed fungi from hell. If its the same timing from pre fungi problem, then its not the timing. Anyway, just throwing it out there and the newbs reading here can find this useful.

Btw, I like hydroton. Its good stuff, just a pain in the butt to clean. I use to just toss it and buy new. Call me lazy, haha.

Okay I'm going back to the lab and workshop. I'm getting your stuff ready. Your custom brew has been going since last night. Well I'm actually brewing 4 different concoctions in bio reactors and will mix accordingly tomorrow right before shipment. From what I figured, max brew time is 16 hours for whats needed. The custom hydro tea will be coming in live liquid form packaged in cold packs. I'll also be sending other things. I'll explain them later.

 

[doneit]

Should i prepare RO water?

its late, get back tomorrow

Thanks bro!

 

[richyrich]

Should i prepare RO water?

its late, get back tomorrow

Thanks bro!

Just got in from the work shop. Go for RO water if you can. If not, don't worry about it. I'm not concerned about spores in the water. I plan to out-compete any possible spores and bad microbes with the custom hydro tea and a bio housing to perpetuate the good microbes in the rez. Amongst many things, I'm sending you 6 vials of a natural chlorine and chloramine neutralizer so it doesnt kill the good microbes. Enough to last thru the rest of your buddy's grow.

I wouldn't send this stuff at the stage of infection your buddy's grow is at right now. If our to be experiment fails it will not mean the products do not work. These are mainly meant for the beginning of a grow, to spur on crazy healthy root growth with increased yield, and are also meant to prevent and protect the roots before infection.

The point right now is to try and salvage your buddy's grow and just see what happens for the hell of it. I have a few other things that I will be sending too. They will be experimental root rot killers for an ongoing system. They will be a test to see if they can take out the root rot. One probable problem I foresee is that at week 5 or so, there is not going to be much root growth even if the crop was healthy. So, I'm not to sure we are even going to be able to tell if there is success or failure. I guess we will just have to see.

I'll get at you tomorrow after I ship.

 

[richyrich]

hey doneit,

I forgot to ask something important. What nutes is your boy using. I need a list of everything he uses. I need to look up the labels and see how the microbes will be affected if at all.

 

[doneit]

He is using maxi bloom, kool bloom dry and wet.
advance ph down.

 

[richyrich]

Ahh perfect. I was going to suggest maxibloom for really going KISS during this time. Okay, since it does not stain roots, we will know whats going on.

Plus, all others out there, maxibloom is the secret all in one nute that works good and is cheap. It's your basic lucas formula that is tried and true in a one part powder for veg and bloom.

 

[doneit]

Well...
I dont know if trying to change the current grow will benefit, they are pretty much set and wont do much more than finish up.. hate to waste the time and materials on something that will not show any real results.. like you said, they will not grow new roots at this point and we wont know if a difference has been made.

He is running tap now.. i do have one good clean ro unit i was planning to give him on the restart, if he can use tap i would prefer it, especially with Maxi bloom.

We normally prefer Flora nova over maxi, like you said, in this situation the maxi doesn't discolor the roots.

Just for the record... Flora nova is a much better nute, but maxi gets it done.


I can bring over some clean cuts now if you want to experiment with your ideas from early on.

I will have him clean a couple bins of hydroton and set up the veg room for experiments.

We have used the perlite for years with outstanding results.. way before the problems...

I have tinkered with the feed times over the last couple years, we dont drip.. its full on pour, i like to run 5 minute cycles and exchange 50 gallons minimum in that cycle.
Before the shit hit the fan the normal feed cycle was and is for me now.. every 6 hours for 5 minutes.

 

[richyrich]

Ya, we can see what happens just for shits and giggles. You never know, we could get surprised. Don't worry about costs on my end. It's not much to me. I find it worth it.

Save the RO for the full on planned grow next round. Just use the tap and that goes good with the maxi anyway. I used floranova for a while. That too is just the lucas formula with a little more. I think mostly just humic acid hence the dark color. Its good stuff. Cheap and works, too.

I'll ship out a little more of certain products so you can do that. We will treat your boys grow for the hell of it, and ya, do some other experiments on the side to see what happens. Just give me a run down of what you plan to do before you do it and I will tell you what things to use from what I send.


What is the largest air pump you guys have? Let me know how many LPM or GPH its rated at? Or you can tell me the watts it puts out. One product is going to require an air pump to atomize it into the rez with an attachment I will be sending you.


I'm going back into my workshop. I'll try to pop by the computer here and there.

 

[doneit]

How i like it...

 

[richyrich]

Thats good flow and it looks like even pressure all around. What size pump are you using and how many 1/4 inch lines per pump?

Oh, let me know what your largest air pump is...

 

[doneit]

All i can find for air pumps are the cheap dual outlet fish tank ones from walmart.. i never needed anything better...

In my tables i run 5x10' with 100 gallon rez and 4- 1650gph pumps. there are 50 - 1.5litre pots per table, i have run as many as 128 on these tables.

I have in the past run much less pressure with good results, however i like to wash em down every feed.

 

[richyrich]

All i can find for air pumps are the cheap dual outlet fish tank ones from walmart.. i never needed anything better...

In my tables i run 5x10' with 100 gallon rez and 4- 1650gph pumps. there are 50 - 1.5litre pots per table, i have run as many as 128 on these tables.

I have in the past run much less pressure with good results, however i like to wash em down every feed.

Okay, cool. I'm gonna go digging for air pumps in my mini hydro store, lol.

 

[richyrich]

doneit,

I'm not going to ship today. I don't like the way one of the fungi micro herds came out in my third bio reactor. I'm not sending unless it's right. I started another brew, so it will be another 15 hours. I'll ship on Sat. via 2 day priority. So, you should get it on Mon. or Tue. I came out of the lab to let you know. Now I'm going back.

 

[richyrich]

doneit,

Man, I've had some hiccups. One of the bene microbe fungi I have been trying to multiply to a number I want hasn't been coming out to what I'm satisfied with for your specific problem. Re-made a couple of hours ago, so another 15 hours. I know I got it right this time. Will ship for real this time on Monday.

Besides, I am receiving some ingredients from a supplier on Monday. I ran out of the limited supply I had initially bought. I need those to mix up two of my formulas to also send you. They both are a super sterilants beyond Physan20 and will kill all spores. You will be able to spray these in the grow room and to clean with. You don't even have to rinse them afterward. They breakdown to harmless. These are two of my most guarded secrets so tight lips.

I will probably have to send you a second package mid week also. I have another delivery I'm waiting on. I needed a high pressure air pump to give you. The air pump has to have a high pressure output or it will not work. It will be used to atomize the liquid sterilants into the rez for a higher level of efficiency and shorter treatment time.

 

[doneit]

No worries bro.. what ever you have to do to make it work.. we are obviously the peasants at your disposal!

 

[120Octane]

Rich I gave this a quick read and I have some info for you about whats going on with pythium , why its issue to begin with and how to treat. I ran DWC fought it and fought it, and finally found a cheap effective cure, and best thing is its a bacteria not a chem. I am not a barefoot hippy no offense to those, but at same time it does evolve and builds resistance to chems but bacteria are natures killers and they work everytime. Nothing builds resistance to them.

Pyth is in your water, its not as common on city water supply because of chlorine but it is found in most well water. It can also become part of your grow from fungus gnats being presant. Here is info on fungus gnat with a picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus_gnat



"Pythium is a genus of parasitic oomycotes. Most species are plant parasites, but Pythium insidiosum is an important pathogen of animals. They were formerly classified as fungi; the feet of the fungus gnat are frequently a vector for their transmission"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythium

The magic bullet is actually 3 fold. The bacteria is called bactillus, there are many sub species of it. The 3 that will work as pest control are Bacillus thuringiensis ,Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis and Bacillus thuringiensis (Kurstaki) or Btk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thurengensis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis_israelensis

Most refer to these 3 as BT, BTI, BTK.


BT will kill the the Pythium. BT is a biological control factor, many gardeners use it to control a wide variety of pests in vegtable gardens and in many greenhouses for flowers also gardens. The best thing is nothing can resist it. If you see someone say they are organic pest control this is what they use.

I know it sounds to good to be true doesn't it? If you look around at who has issues with pyth and bugs in general ask them 1 question. Are you using bacteria. How many live res in hydro have you seen with pyth or bugs issues? You dont and the reason is they are using BT and should also be using BTI esp for gnats. The BT will hammer the pythium bye itself but not gnats. To control gnats need BTI. If have spider mites need BTK.

How it works Bt acts by producing proteins (delta-endotoxin, the "toxic crystal") that reacts with the cells of the gut lining of susceptible insects. These Bt proteins paralyze the digestive system, and the infected insect stops feeding within hours. Bt-affected insects generally die from starvation, which can take several days.

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html

BTI will kill gnats, fungus gnats found in grow. The easy place to get them are in mosquito dunks, go any place has water fountian or pond parts for sale or the big box stores in where pesticides are sold and will find them there.These will kill all gnats.

If you look in any company that sell pesticide look for organic versions. Look for the version of B you need to treat you issue you are having.

Another thing too if want to help your yeild of your plants if in hydro is get a bottle of ORCA, in coco or soil get great white. Its benificials and microbes. It does have Bactillus strains but not ones needed for pythium and pest control. If in hydro you DO NOT want trichodermia in your system and orca does not have it, use CANN zyme and that will help with healthy roots instead of trich species. Great white has trich in it the differance between the 2.

 

[120Octane]

BTI is found in mosquito dunks, you can get them at any big box store back in pesticide section, they are doughnuts.

This is what you need for gnat control

 

[120Octane]

If this doesnt make sense let me know and will clarify for you any questions you have. I am just baked out of my brain right now and want to be sure that it makes sense to those that read this. Man god bud for the win!!!!

 

[richyrich]

Lol, barefoot hippies. I think those guys are north of me. Cool info.

Ya, that's what I use for people when they have them damn gnats. No need to get Gnatrol. That's all it is anyway. I haven't had gnats in forever.

I think you missed what the hydro tea is all about. I can see how since all I have been seemingly talking about is killing spores. The hydro tea is all about bene bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes.

The problem is dormant spores in a grow room once infested just waiting to take a dive in some water. A spore needs only one drop of water and it will blow open at 6,000 G's (g force). Then the cycle starts again... and again... This is a big issue for many people. This is something I have been working long at. The market does not offer anything for us, so I am filling the void. And, I suspect the hydro/garden manufactures and retailers do not want to fill the void because it would eliminate the sale of their magic potions in a bottle that do not work, but makes them tons of money. They are going to hate me, ROFL.

The custom hydro tea I am making for doneit has several species of bacillus and also has Bti and Btk. I definitely covered that base. Them little bugger flies carry fungi on their feet, hence their name fungus gnat.

 

[richyrich]

I thought I would throw out some technical info re BT for you peeps.

"During sporulation, many Bt strains produce crystal proteins (proteinaceous inclusions), called δ-endotoxins, that have Insecticide action. Upon sporulation, B. thuringiensis forms crystals of proteinaceous insecticidal δ-endotoxins (called crystal proteins or Cry proteins), which are encoded by cry genes. In most strains of B. thuringiensis, the cry genes are located on a plasmid (in other words, cry is not a chromosomal gene in most strains). Cry toxins have specific activities against insect species of the orders Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies), Diptera (flies and mosquitoes), Coleoptera (beetles), Hymenoptera (wasps, bees, ants and sawflies) and nematodes. Thus, B. thuringiensis serves as an important reservoir of Cry toxins for production of biological insecticides and insect-resistant genetically modified crops. When insects ingest toxin crystals, the alkaline pH of their digestive tract denatures the insoluble crystals, making them soluble and thus amenable to being cut with proteases found in the insect gut, which liberate the cry toxin from the crystal. The Cry toxin is then inserted into the insect gut cell membrane, paralyzing the digestive tract and forming a pore. The insect stops eating and starves to death; live Bt bacteria may also colonize the insect which can contribute to death." -- Wikipedia


Chalk one up for spores, beneficial ones.