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bonecarver_OG
nice! and interesting!
(like that bush in the back - thats right my style of growing
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(like that bush in the back - thats right my style of growing
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bonecarver_OG
cool 
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Guest
bonecarver_OG, thanks for the thread, dude. Hope I'm on topic here and not too long winded. If I am, just slap the shit out of me and tell me not to do it again, lmfao.
This one I'm about to harvest in two days is my first grow so I don't have a lot of experience at fancy growing, I only watered once a day - to at least a 15% runoff. Hand watered I might add, lol. Wore my ass out and I only had two plants. I'm going to be setting up a drip system and after seeing how nice my yield is going to be with this grow, I was already thinking of continuing to only water once a day with maybe a 75%-100% runoff to correct any ec problems. I only had to flush twice during the grow to correct ec buildup and that was watering to only 15% runoff. So it might just work.
I did increase my waterings to twice daily during the last two weeks before flush. I did this because I wanted to decrease the nitrogen incrementally while maybe even increasing the P&K. So I started adding PK 13/14 at 1mL/gal two weeks before flushing and I wanted to keep it at a reasonably constant level, so - twice a day waterings. Kinda like achieving better control over Diabetes Mellitus by prescribing multiple daily insulin shots. Looks like it's working out ok. The buds keep packing it on while everything else that's not vital to reproduction is grinding to a halt.
Medium: 100% pure Canna Coco Coir - straight out of the bag - with no fillers (perlite, , preservatives
Nutes: Canna A+B, Rhizotonic, Cannazym, PK 13/14 - That's it!!! Backbone of the grow was the A+B. Then a dab of the others when the times were right.
bonecarver, honestly man I don't know if watering more times a day will increase or decrease yield because I haven't tried it, but wanting to go with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset, watering once a day is looking like it ain't broke for me, not right now anyway.
If you don't mind sir, let me know if it would be ok to post a couple of pictures in this post and a link to my thread so I can totally confuse everybody, lmfao.
Peace
This one I'm about to harvest in two days is my first grow so I don't have a lot of experience at fancy growing, I only watered once a day - to at least a 15% runoff. Hand watered I might add, lol. Wore my ass out and I only had two plants. I'm going to be setting up a drip system and after seeing how nice my yield is going to be with this grow, I was already thinking of continuing to only water once a day with maybe a 75%-100% runoff to correct any ec problems. I only had to flush twice during the grow to correct ec buildup and that was watering to only 15% runoff. So it might just work.
I did increase my waterings to twice daily during the last two weeks before flush. I did this because I wanted to decrease the nitrogen incrementally while maybe even increasing the P&K. So I started adding PK 13/14 at 1mL/gal two weeks before flushing and I wanted to keep it at a reasonably constant level, so - twice a day waterings. Kinda like achieving better control over Diabetes Mellitus by prescribing multiple daily insulin shots. Looks like it's working out ok. The buds keep packing it on while everything else that's not vital to reproduction is grinding to a halt.
Medium: 100% pure Canna Coco Coir - straight out of the bag - with no fillers (perlite, , preservatives
Nutes: Canna A+B, Rhizotonic, Cannazym, PK 13/14 - That's it!!! Backbone of the grow was the A+B. Then a dab of the others when the times were right.
bonecarver, honestly man I don't know if watering more times a day will increase or decrease yield because I haven't tried it, but wanting to go with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset, watering once a day is looking like it ain't broke for me, not right now anyway.
If you don't mind sir, let me know if it would be ok to post a couple of pictures in this post and a link to my thread so I can totally confuse everybody, lmfao.
Peace
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hmmm...........i'm wondering if their method of testing the ec is comparable to testing the run off-because when i test mine it is something like ec 2.5/ph 6.0-so their aim of an ec around 1.1-1.3 is confusing. And i've noticed on a couple of occasions when i've watered once a day for a few days and they have dried out that some of the more sensitive strains have burned-
also-their suggestion of 4-6L /m2 is just less than half the amount my last crop drank-and the yields are pretty much what i'd get using nft's in the same space-am i doing something wrong?
...................i'm going to leave this one for the IQ posse to sort out because i'm only going to get into a MASSIVE arguement with myself anyway
eddie
also-their suggestion of 4-6L /m2 is just less than half the amount my last crop drank-and the yields are pretty much what i'd get using nft's in the same space-am i doing something wrong?
...................i'm going to leave this one for the IQ posse to sort out because i'm only going to get into a MASSIVE arguement with myself anyway
eddie
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Guest
EddieShoestring, I hear ya on the rising ec issue. Mine kept gradually doing the same thing. I studied on it thinking along the lines of "your return ec should be equal to or slightly lower than what you're feeding at." That way you know you're feeding at the level the plant's using it.
Then I mentally said fuck that, and started realizing that if my ec was building up, it could also be due to my coco getting a little bit light during high growth periods while watering only once a day. That told me my 3 gal pots were just a little bit small to hold water for a once-a-day regimen. Maybe I'll fill the pots right up to the tops with the coco the next grow and magically have the grow "dialed in." lmfao.
What size pots did you use?
Edited for the following:
When I started having the rising ec issue due to a slight lack of water reserves for the plant to make it a full 24 hours between waterings, I elected to keep the waterings at once a day and water to a greater runoff level to control ec rather than to increase my waterings to two a day. I realized that the water demands were going to fluctuate throughout the grow and I reasoned that increasing waterings to twice a day and then back to daily waterings during these periods would stress the plants more than letting the ec rise a little every once in a while. Abrupt watering changes will split your fruit on tomato plants. LOTS of stress involved.
velvet, see man. This shitty, fucking attitude of yours is exactly why we don't invite you to any of our parties.
And don't accuse me of "overwatering in the cannabis infirmary."
Peace
Sorry bonecarver, dude. I'm really not trying to hog your thread. Your light wasn't on and it was just sitting here.
Then I mentally said fuck that, and started realizing that if my ec was building up, it could also be due to my coco getting a little bit light during high growth periods while watering only once a day. That told me my 3 gal pots were just a little bit small to hold water for a once-a-day regimen. Maybe I'll fill the pots right up to the tops with the coco the next grow and magically have the grow "dialed in." lmfao.
What size pots did you use?
Edited for the following:
When I started having the rising ec issue due to a slight lack of water reserves for the plant to make it a full 24 hours between waterings, I elected to keep the waterings at once a day and water to a greater runoff level to control ec rather than to increase my waterings to two a day. I realized that the water demands were going to fluctuate throughout the grow and I reasoned that increasing waterings to twice a day and then back to daily waterings during these periods would stress the plants more than letting the ec rise a little every once in a while. Abrupt watering changes will split your fruit on tomato plants. LOTS of stress involved.
Blackvelvet said:This thread does not surprise me at all. Not at all. I tried to tell you CoCo fools your overwatering in the cannabis infirmary. "No no velvet, its coco, you can't overwater." Let that nut refuse dry out some, eh?
On a side note, happy memorial day icmag.
velvet, see man. This shitty, fucking attitude of yours is exactly why we don't invite you to any of our parties.
And don't accuse me of "overwatering in the cannabis infirmary."
Peace
Sorry bonecarver, dude. I'm really not trying to hog your thread. Your light wasn't on and it was just sitting here.
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Yo Mojo they are 3gall/14L- and i think you've raised a critical point-the size of the pots-little ones dry out faster than big ones
when i got these high ec readings, as a former hydro grower, i paniked a bit-feed just ph'd water for a few days and the plants started showing N def. I then asked a couple of friends who do particularly well in coco who said those high ec readings are normal in coco as long as medium is kept damp/wet and the ph is at 6.0ish.
other points=when it does dry out salts precipitate out of it. I've seen this happen clearly -eg where the surface of the coir is exposed to direct light and as a result dries a little-it goes white. At times this has happened and it's possible to see the outlines of the shadows in the precipitate on the coir (if you see what i mean)
would it be worth getting on to the Canna bods to discuss their findings here?
eddie
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Guest
bonecarver_OG said:Canna has been making tests to see how to improve the yields in coco-growing.
the most interesting part of the conclusion of the tests - is the fact...
CANNA NOW claims bigger yields IF watering only once a day!!!!
the say the fact the coco gets about 3% more air in the substrate watering more seldom and letting the plants USE UP the water - gives more intesive rooting and that in turn makes the UPTAKE of nutricions better for the plant.
they actually claim 6-10% HIGHER YIELDS watering only once a day!!!!!
it means DRIP IRRIGATION less often MEANS BIGGER YIELDS.
i know this is going to stir up some movement i bet!
source (so u dont think im making it up
http://www.canna-uk.com/images/stories/canna_downloads/IP_COCO_UK.pdf
I've been watering only 1time to 2times a day and when I water 2times I don't water the nextday I feed them there scheduled ppm mix for that week then I just hit em with a 300ppm additive mix the rest of the week..If they show me they want another dose of the scheduled mix I'll hit them again.. but only if they show me they want it cause I'm scared to nute burn since I have other things I'm trying to keep straight already heh...I've been pretty mean to my plants too.. I don't really flush because I water till alittle runoff and figure thats enough flush atm,I only flush if I cant get a def to turn around without it. and I don't check the PH or PPM after I feed em because all the sites say it's not accurate... I just make sure it's going in at 6.0ph... heh guess we'll see how much Im messing up my grow cause I'll be the first to tell you my plants all don't look perfect heh I made my noob mistakes like... wind,light,overwatering, and cal/mag def.. Its a wonder they're still alive
.. Foliar fed alot in veg stage I should add..I always thought you could treat coco like soil cause it will stay wet for a month or two if you don't have anything absorbing that water. I only know because I had one sitting away from light for over a month and it was stilll nice moist,ready to go and didn't have excess salt buildup.
Don't kill me bone,I use Botanicare coco but thought I'd add my experiences and that I started this way.... everyone said I was doing pretty good for my first time so I haven't changed it... I would rather have a drip system so I could hit em once a day cause hand feeding 10-20plants is time consuming after awhile heh...
Nice thread man and thx for posting it..
I read when I first got Coco that roots take easier in a less wet coco medium.
So I went with it. All this stuff about metabolics and they say feed it once heh.. guess they need that air just that much
.. I was wondering if you fed them Sparkling water often if it would change any of this...I think if people put down there feeding schedules and there experiences instead of wasting time on the ney saying.. it would help the thread out alot more.. I like these type of threads and dislike when my free info ride is disrupted lol.. ~ All help No rag ~
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bonecarver_OG
this discussion is getting going
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Guest
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bonecarver_OG
yep - in an earlier post i think i noted on the fact further down in the document it says watering 2 x a day later etc.
makes complete sence. as stated before a plants water need increase with size - and obviously a bigger plant would suck up the available water for it in the SLABS - as this article (the pdf) seems to be about that. further id ad that if a plants use of water further exceeds this - it obviously must be more beneficial to increase the watering frequency.
after all - no one wants the COCO to get DRY under any circumstances.
the variables in this is:
+ volume of substrate
+ size of plant and use of water and nutrients
so as far as i can tell its not too contradictionary. rather more elementary.
just trying to get logic into the claims. im sure if they go out with a statement like this - there is a big amount of research etc behind it. often in an academic environment a point can get lost because of bad use of language - i mean the article is a bit confusingly writen - and maybe all the research data is not well represented.
since canna suplies the biggest vegetable suplier of holland with their productline - this means there must be a enormous space of research.
peace
makes complete sence. as stated before a plants water need increase with size - and obviously a bigger plant would suck up the available water for it in the SLABS - as this article (the pdf) seems to be about that. further id ad that if a plants use of water further exceeds this - it obviously must be more beneficial to increase the watering frequency.
after all - no one wants the COCO to get DRY under any circumstances.
the variables in this is:
+ volume of substrate
+ size of plant and use of water and nutrients
so as far as i can tell its not too contradictionary. rather more elementary.
just trying to get logic into the claims. im sure if they go out with a statement like this - there is a big amount of research etc behind it. often in an academic environment a point can get lost because of bad use of language - i mean the article is a bit confusingly writen - and maybe all the research data is not well represented.
since canna suplies the biggest vegetable suplier of holland with their productline - this means there must be a enormous space of research.
peace
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bonecarver_OG
Indica Sativa said:
VERY good point!
yeah they also tell you to use 4ml per lt of A+B on the bottle, rofl. they probably have done some experiments with low fert levels and less watering and realized that low fert levels work great with less water, as the salt doesn't accumulate like it does with a high fert dose. so now they advise less water. at least they warn you not to let it dry out anyway, lol.
i haven't read the pdf and i just want to book mark this thread so it's listed in my control panel. will get back to it tomorrow. i have my doubts that it will increase yields in a well dialed in room just because you water less. but maybe i'll do another experiment, it's been years since i last flowered some plants without multiple waterings daily. i'm still convinced that it's all about what you make your plants get used to. they are able to make both hydroponic roots or earth roots. as long as you stick to one or the other and don't try going back and forth you will be successful. i wonder what kind of yield numbers they are talking about, because if it's anything less then a gpw, then their system interests me not at all.
anyway, peace out till tomorrow 
i haven't read the pdf and i just want to book mark this thread so it's listed in my control panel. will get back to it tomorrow. i have my doubts that it will increase yields in a well dialed in room just because you water less. but maybe i'll do another experiment, it's been years since i last flowered some plants without multiple waterings daily. i'm still convinced that it's all about what you make your plants get used to. they are able to make both hydroponic roots or earth roots. as long as you stick to one or the other and don't try going back and forth you will be successful. i wonder what kind of yield numbers they are talking about, because if it's anything less then a gpw, then their system interests me not at all.
anyway, peace out till tomorrow
OK, in no particular order here are my thoughts:
aeration in reservoir could also affect amount of actual o2 used by plants as well as nutrient uptake. lol to whoever mentioned sparkling water in the res!
my coco grow guru, who i'll call ironman, uses AN monkey juice now (he gets wholesale) mainly because Canna is picky about who they'll let distribute in a given area. he used to water once or twice a day in coco beds with canna nutes. he got very good results, especially for the haze strains he'd run. now he waters for 5 seconds every 2 hours and swears by it. same yields or better but much faster. i'm testing it out right now in veg, i'll get the thread up soon.
canna dutch site says runoff information irrelevant and misleading. check it yourself.
peace, love, and coco
aeration in reservoir could also affect amount of actual o2 used by plants as well as nutrient uptake. lol to whoever mentioned sparkling water in the res!
my coco grow guru, who i'll call ironman, uses AN monkey juice now (he gets wholesale) mainly because Canna is picky about who they'll let distribute in a given area. he used to water once or twice a day in coco beds with canna nutes. he got very good results, especially for the haze strains he'd run. now he waters for 5 seconds every 2 hours and swears by it. same yields or better but much faster. i'm testing it out right now in veg, i'll get the thread up soon.
canna dutch site says runoff information irrelevant and misleading. check it yourself.
peace, love, and coco
it's typical canna, they get a researcher getting a great yield doing something different and then they think it aplies for every situation.
6% to 10% is not really much, i get those kind of differences all the time just depending on the season and how good the clones are etc. there are so many things that can influence a grow to make more or less harvest that it's silly to think watering alone will explain it. a good yield is always due to a whole combinatin of things being just right.
i don't say you can't get fantastic results with 1 watering a day, but i know that those results will not be better then an automated set up. not if you do it the right way from the beginning, you show the clones that they will be in a hydroponic set up and they will just take off.
basically as long as you chose one way or the other you will have the same chances of success. the worst thing is irregularity, it has to be either hydro, or normal style watering.
thats my opinion on the matter and it's based on doing, not on reading, but there again there are so many variants, just consider a slab grow on the one hand and a bed of coco on the other. watering has to be adjusted according to the plants needs in any given situation. how can they give out a recommendation for how many liters of water are needed for how many square meters?
peace out
6% to 10% is not really much, i get those kind of differences all the time just depending on the season and how good the clones are etc. there are so many things that can influence a grow to make more or less harvest that it's silly to think watering alone will explain it. a good yield is always due to a whole combinatin of things being just right.
i don't say you can't get fantastic results with 1 watering a day, but i know that those results will not be better then an automated set up. not if you do it the right way from the beginning, you show the clones that they will be in a hydroponic set up and they will just take off.
basically as long as you chose one way or the other you will have the same chances of success. the worst thing is irregularity, it has to be either hydro, or normal style watering.
thats my opinion on the matter and it's based on doing, not on reading, but there again there are so many variants, just consider a slab grow on the one hand and a bed of coco on the other. watering has to be adjusted according to the plants needs in any given situation. how can they give out a recommendation for how many liters of water are needed for how many square meters?
peace out
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bonecarver_OG
the more i think about the article it does seem to be designed for vegetable and fruit growing with plants that have a higher EC tolerance than cannabis?
just a thought
i agree 100%
an other very good point there is too many variables in this
peace all
just a thought
i agree 100%
an other very good point
there is too many variables in this peace all
as usual there is a lot of good info in there, so i thought i'd post it up. i just hope it's readable as i resorted to screen shots, i know there must have been another way, lol. anyway here we go, courtesy of canna.....and Bonecarver for bringing it to the coco forum 
so far i only glanced over it, i want to read it through once, before i make my final decision, about what's useful to me and what's not, lol.
so far i only glanced over it, i want to read it through once, before i make my final decision, about what's useful to me and what's not, lol.
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bonecarver_OG
awesome mate!
do it!
do it!
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Neptune
disclaimer: I got bored and didn't read the thread as soon as the bickering started... but I will say this:
Gaius drips multiple times a day in coco slabs, with runoff, and outyeilds everyone on this board.
that is all.
Gaius drips multiple times a day in coco slabs, with runoff, and outyeilds everyone on this board.
that is all.
