Canna Boost V Molasses - side by side comparison.

[gmanwho]

Hello hazy lady, i love u ran some comparisons with the boost.

I started reading a few weeks back. an when i saw the abcd. i knew from my experience with canna bio boost c an d would pull ahead. Especially with adding the carbos to the mix. It made perfect since when i read the addition of molasses. The additional carbs to fuel the increase of photosynthesis i thought....., it seemed plausible anyways.

i have seen what bb can do to a 3+ week flowering plant. an i have been amazed myself.

Especially how a plant that may be in late flower not showing new growth pistols, then a foliar feeding of BB. 2 days later there are new growth bursting from the calyxes. Bursting calyxes....bursting with 10+ hairs trying to escape the same opening. Not every plant that has come through, but most genetics in the past 6-8 months. more then enough to justify the $110 a liter.

been messing with the bb about 6-8+ runs. Perpetual harvesting, about every 30 days. Usually 2 , had 3 stages of flower development going on. Down to 2 now. Since have moved from coco back to hydro and recently with a ebb& flo bucket system.

I found foliar is the way to go with BB. U can save alot of money running it foliar. And i can say, foliar works very very well with BB. My RH is set at 45, temps 75 or so at night, 80-85 lights on. I have not had issues with foliar spraying durring flower or late late flower. No bud rot........ but that could be genetics in my favor.

When folair feeding Air movement, a low rh, an also very important is your low temp of the day/night. Your low temp cannot come close to your rh for air saturation reasons. all key in foliar, this is where alot of people fail or scared with foliar. ( It could be 65f out, but the rh is 65. In this number scenerio becasue the rh meet the temp u have a 100% saturated air environment, 100% hummidty in a 65rh scenerio. example, dew in the morning) cant llet the rh meet the temp or get close. If u foliar, your plants should be dry within 5-10 minutes with right conditions.

I run it foliar at 40mil per gal. out of a 1 gal sprayer, i can spray 25 3ft plants 3 times. i spray every 3-4days after they are flowering 20+ days. i spray to about 50-55 days depending on plant.

after day 40-45 i have been adding Purple max/snow storm., 5 mil per gal to the 40 mil bb per gal folair.

The addition of Purplemax ( which i believe contains jasmonic acid)has been a serious serious addition to the BB foliar spray. the trichs are 50% + increased, atleast it seems to me.



IME, I usually see the bb difference, but IF the plants are already super healthy,its harder to see, but i do see a slight burst of pistol development.

BUT WHEN they seem a little behind an not developing 100%, the BB seems to send her back into pistol calyx development for sure. HANDS DOWN!!!

Nice to see to see a comparison. i wish i could add molasses to the mix. But not so sure about foliar feeding it or adding to the rez.

Im gonna b doing some experimentation with triacontanol very soon. which is sopposed to be another similar booster. i finally have all the material an almost everything in place.

B-safe an thanks for sharing.

 

[Strangely]

Hazy, you are brilliant! Those are perfect!! xx

 

[Badgermonkey]

(not so simply) AMAZING!

(not so simply) AMAZING!

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I feel quite fortunate to have found this Thread!

I'm on my first *real* grow, just having faced a huge learning curve with how to deal with outdoor plants that unexpectedly have to come inside - which was much more traumatic to us all than I ever imagined.

I was drawn here due to moving from Foxfarm (very nice nutes, I still throw some Tiger Bloom on when I want more P - roses <3 it too to Canna coir line. I've used coir for years, as I've never managed to over-water in it no matter how hard I try, and it's just very clean and efficient all around. I use GH bricks which I now thoroughly flush with Florakleen and filtered water before use, which I owe to this forum and some icky looking plants that led me here.

I plan to start a newb grow diary as I think I have a lot to add to the community. I'm sure lots of new people could use a walk-through with some of the very fine heads here coaxing me through some woes and joys that surely some (hopefully many( can empathize with.

Intro out of the way, I've been using CannaBoost for my grow since flowering, just recently (~30 days) adding Brer Rabbit molasses - also from info I got here 8). Due to much stress on the poor things due to many things, (not excluding the fact I had no idea wtf I was doing - despite reading "the grower's bible" cover to cover twice, and again just as reference I'm sure. No replacement for hands-on here!)
my first 3 plants were just weird. I added all kinds of crap to them and basically created some frankenstein's but learning a lot on the way.

I now have a veg n bloom room set up pretty well for my budget, a handful of seeds "6th generation amsterdam skunk/sativa mix; selected for potency, and short bushy traits", hand-pollenated by strongest smelling males to strongest preferably short fem's. I have 8 (1st Generation I call them), 16 2nd Gen in veg and looking happy. The cost of Boost drives me nuts, but I worry that if my crop is what it is WITH Boost I'd hate to see it without it lol! I do worry that it's all crap and I'm being a sucker too.

Then HazyLady comes along, and makes the world right once again <3

So this weekend the 10-12" 1st Gen go into the 3gal Smartpots destined to be their final resting place, from 18 hours light to 15 for a week, but under the 1000w Solarmax HPS rather than the 8 bulb 2' T5/daylight (they really like an afternoon by the window 8). They'll be getting the standard Canna line (as a newb I figured why not let the pro's do all the work, I'll just try to follow directions 8) - lemme see if I can work out this pic thingy...

Ok, I figured out my pic is too big; check it out here:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9899/img054n.jpg < high res

It looks good like that, but I'll rescan @ a lower res... ugh, so imageshack hates .pdf... sheesh the .jpg is 4x bigger...

If it's not one thing, it's everything else...

ANYWAY... Canna Coir 15ml A+B, Rhizotonic 8ml, Cannazym 10ml, *Cannaboost 12ml, [1ml PK 13/14 is being replaced by 5ml Brer Rabbit Blackstrap molasses], Superthrive 1ml, *1 tbsp of Mychor per plant
All measurements are per gallon
I'm foliar feeding the cannaboost @ 1ml/ltr with Coco-Wet surfactant and Spray-n-Grow.

What you taught me about Boost and Mole asses is very sexy, and I love you for it!




The Canna site is great, and I have lots of Canna literature from my local shop, if anyone wants to know anything by Canna of Canna for Canna, let me know - I can even scan labels from all their coir products if needed 8). I'm no expert, I just have hard copies of promotional literature, so it's the the skinny straight from Canna.

Luv ya, luv yer posts - when I add my next 1000w I may want to jump in on these comparison thingamawhatsits; I'll have 2 3x4 bloom rooms w/1000w HPS each. I'll be using a 'flopper'; so that when my timer flips off one 1000w, the other one gets the ballast charge until the timer flips again, giving me 1000w 24/7 effectively and no spiking on the electric from starting and stopping the ballast (they last longer when not turned on and off anyway, it's one of those weird things that do that sort of thing 8)). Should keep the temps even instead of the 85-60° range I have now too.

ANYWAY, what this means is due to needing light isolation, the two rooms will be sealed off from each other, making side-by-side comparisons simple, especially when combined with my ninja/pirate-like individual watering skills (I like to pour my nutes into a pan, then set the pot in it until it's kinda heavy, then let it drain - it's ghetto ebb'n flow I know, but my plants don't need the same water as each other very often, and I've got the time.

Ok I'm going before I ramble into next month!

Guten Tag!

 

[Badgermonkey]

Didn't mean to kill the thread

Didn't mean to kill the thread

I don't bite - I'm not that kind of badger!

 

[*mistress*]

When folair feeding Air movement, a low rh, an also very important is your low temp of the day/night. Your low temp cannot come close to your rh for air saturation reasons. all key in foliar, this is where alot of people fail or scared with foliar. ( It could be 65f out, but the rh is 65. In this number scenerio becasue the rh meet the temp u have a 100% saturated air environment, 100% hummidty in a 65rh scenerio. example, dew in the morning) cant llet the rh meet the temp or get close. If u foliar, your plants should be dry within 5-10 minutes with right conditions.

?

65*f & 65% rh equaling 100% humidity?... what do you mean by 'air saturation'?

cant llet the rh meet the temp or get close.

?
what would occur to plant then?

rh & temp function on totally different scales of measurement...

enjoy your garden!

 

[Hazy Lady]

Thank-you all so much

Thank-you all so much

Great reports HL. I love it when somebody elses patience and hard work helps me prove my suspicions right...lol.
The bud density is something I have noticed with molasses myself. May also be due to the lack of boost and therefore lack of P,as although P promotes budding...It can cause overstretching and looseness of flowers if P is too high in the ratio for too long.
With the balance just right of the sweets and the boost then you should get Large but Hard buds of sweet,creamy,tropical goodness....Marvellous! ;] Job done.........................

Thank-you JB, you are kind,
It seems our findings are very similar, if not the same? regarding the Molasses, I was quite surprised just how much harder these buds turned out.
I didn't have any stretch, (more to add to my evidence I don't use enough Molasses perhaps?) actually they were the shortest group in the end?, they did have the larger leaves, noticeably larger leaves, I don't know if the leaf stem was larger too but the leaves were, I let it slip my mind I am afraid, I had noticed during the Ca issue I had while looking to see any common factors, not all groups were sick?, or had shown no signs before I remedied the situation.
I am with you, finding the right ratio or balance as you say, no doubt you can bring out the very best in your bud, and a few days early if that is important? Thanks JBo

Hello hazy lady, i love u ran some comparisons with the boost.

I started reading a few weeks back. an when i saw the abcd. i knew from my experience with canna bio boost c an d would pull ahead. Especially with adding the carbos to the mix. It made perfect since when i read the addition of molasses. The additional carbs to fuel the increase of photosynthesis i thought....., it seemed plausible anyways.

i have seen what bb can do to a 3+ week flowering plant. an i have been amazed myself.

Especially how a plant that may be in late flower not showing new growth pistols, then a foliar feeding of BB. 2 days later there are new growth bursting from the calyxes. Bursting calyxes....bursting with 10+ hairs trying to escape the same opening. Not every plant that has come through, but most genetics in the past 6-8 months. more then enough to justify the $110 a liter.

been messing with the bb about 6-8+ runs. Perpetual harvesting, about every 30 days. Usually 2 , had 3 stages of flower development going on. Down to 2 now. Since have moved from coco back to hydro and recently with a ebb& flo bucket system.

I found foliar is the way to go with BB. U can save alot of money running it foliar. And i can say, foliar works very very well with BB. My RH is set at 45, temps 75 or so at night, 80-85 lights on. I have not had issues with foliar spraying durring flower or late late flower. No bud rot........ but that could be genetics in my favor.

When folair feeding Air movement, a low rh, an also very important is your low temp of the day/night. Your low temp cannot come close to your rh for air saturation reasons. all key in foliar, this is where alot of people fail or scared with foliar. ( It could be 65f out, but the rh is 65. In this number scenerio becasue the rh meet the temp u have a 100% saturated air environment, 100% hummidty in a 65rh scenerio. example, dew in the morning) cant llet the rh meet the temp or get close. If u foliar, your plants should be dry within 5-10 minutes with right conditions.

I run it foliar at 40mil per gal. out of a 1 gal sprayer, i can spray 25 3ft plants 3 times. i spray every 3-4days after they are flowering 20+ days. i spray to about 50-55 days depending on plant.

after day 40-45 i have been adding Purple max/snow storm., 5 mil per gal to the 40 mil bb per gal folair.

The addition of Purplemax ( which i believe contains jasmonic acid)has been a serious serious addition to the BB foliar spray. the trichs are 50% + increased, atleast it seems to me.



IME, I usually see the bb difference, but IF the plants are already super healthy,its harder to see, but i do see a slight burst of pistol development.

BUT WHEN they seem a little behind an not developing 100%, the BB seems to send her back into pistol calyx development for sure. HANDS DOWN!!!

Nice to see to see a comparison. i wish i could add molasses to the mix. But not so sure about foliar feeding it or adding to the rez.

Im gonna b doing some experimentation with triacontanol very soon. which is sopposed to be another similar booster. i finally have all the material an almost everything in place.

B-safe an thanks for sharing.

Hi Gman', Shame you couldn't bet on the Boosts huh
I have to admit to being confused about the RH?, I see *mistress* has also mentioned the same thing so will let you answer my sister below.

Sticking to the actual foliar feeding for the mo', I am really interested to read you have been 'boosting' this way, we have discussed it a few times over the past weeks but I don't believe anyone had really tried it as you have.

So you are in no doubt of the of value of Canna Boost, with the exception of a few strains?
Tell me, the grows you had improvements on, did you foliar feed those or is the foliar feeding a recent thing and you root fed before?

I understand you would use less and so make Boost more economical, worthwhile for that alone, but I wondered if you had seen differences between root fed/foliar fed Boost? I mean, is there any improvement that foliar feeding brings that would make you foliar feed even if the cost increased instead?. You also found Boost to act as a sort of tonic or kick start for sick plant's, this is new to me, very plausible, I can imagine it 'boosting' the whole plant back to health in some cases.

On Molasses, I am pretty sure all the guys/gals that foliar feed Molasses/Sugar Products all rinsed with fresh water and said they had no problems, I spoke to a friend today about this but he has a huge Scrog so we figured it would be too awkward to clean plants completely, if you have plants in pots it really isn't a problem.
And in a res I think the black stuff is fine!, especially if kept moving, or had an air-stone, I have seen a thin film from the Molasses in a res when sat a few days undisturbed, I would only worry about very fine emitters clogging but other than that I would use Molasses both way's quite confidently.

Do share your findings with us more, and do let us know how the Triacontinol trials go, do you have some raw chem or a product containing it?

I don't know Purplemax or Jasmonic acid but I will by the time you reply, good post, interesting points to discuss, I am gonna need a note if you arrive late again
Glad you joined us

Hazy, you are brilliant! Those are perfect!! xx

You are very welcome S' anytime buddy

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I feel quite fortunate to have found this Thread!

I'm on my first *real* grow, just having faced a huge learning curve with how to deal with outdoor plants that unexpectedly have to come inside - which was much more traumatic to us all than I ever imagined.

I was drawn here due to moving from Foxfarm (very nice nutes, I still throw some Tiger Bloom on when I want more P - roses <3 it too to Canna coir line. I've used coir for years, as I've never managed to over-water in it no matter how hard I try, and it's just very clean and efficient all around. I use GH bricks which I now thoroughly flush with Florakleen and filtered water before use, which I owe to this forum and some icky looking plants that led me here.

I plan to start a newb grow diary as I think I have a lot to add to the community. I'm sure lots of new people could use a walk-through with some of the very fine heads here coaxing me through some woes and joys that surely some (hopefully many( can empathize with.

Intro out of the way, I've been using CannaBoost for my grow since flowering, just recently (~30 days) adding Brer Rabbit molasses - also from info I got here 8). Due to much stress on the poor things due to many things, (not excluding the fact I had no idea wtf I was doing - despite reading "the grower's bible" cover to cover twice, and again just as reference I'm sure. No replacement for hands-on here!)
my first 3 plants were just weird. I added all kinds of crap to them and basically created some frankenstein's but learning a lot on the way.

I now have a veg n bloom room set up pretty well for my budget, a handful of seeds "6th generation amsterdam skunk/sativa mix; selected for potency, and short bushy traits", hand-pollenated by strongest smelling males to strongest preferably short fem's. I have 8 (1st Generation I call them), 16 2nd Gen in veg and looking happy. The cost of Boost drives me nuts, but I worry that if my crop is what it is WITH Boost I'd hate to see it without it lol! I do worry that it's all crap and I'm being a sucker too.

Then HazyLady comes along, and makes the world right once again <3

So this weekend the 10-12" 1st Gen go into the 3gal Smartpots destined to be their final resting place, from 18 hours light to 15 for a week, but under the 1000w Solarmax HPS rather than the 8 bulb 2' T5/daylight (they really like an afternoon by the window 8). They'll be getting the standard Canna line (as a newb I figured why not let the pro's do all the work, I'll just try to follow directions 8) - lemme see if I can work out this pic thingy...

Ok, I figured out my pic is too big; check it out here:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9899/img054n.jpg < high res

It looks good like that, but I'll rescan @ a lower res... ugh, so imageshack hates .pdf... sheesh the .jpg is 4x bigger...

If it's not one thing, it's everything else...

ANYWAY... Canna Coir 15ml A+B, Rhizotonic 8ml, Cannazym 10ml, *Cannaboost 12ml, [1ml PK 13/14 is being replaced by 5ml Brer Rabbit Blackstrap molasses], Superthrive 1ml, *1 tbsp of Mychor per plant
All measurements are per gallon
I'm foliar feeding the cannaboost @ 1ml/ltr with Coco-Wet surfactant and Spray-n-Grow.

What you taught me about Boost and Mole asses is very sexy, and I love you for it!


View attachment 35053

The Canna site is great, and I have lots of Canna literature from my local shop, if anyone wants to know anything by Canna of Canna for Canna, let me know - I can even scan labels from all their coir products if needed 8). I'm no expert, I just have hard copies of promotional literature, so it's the the skinny straight from Canna.

Luv ya, luv yer posts - when I add my next 1000w I may want to jump in on these comparison thingamawhatsits; I'll have 2 3x4 bloom rooms w/1000w HPS each. I'll be using a 'flopper'; so that when my timer flips off one 1000w, the other one gets the ballast charge until the timer flips again, giving me 1000w 24/7 effectively and no spiking on the electric from starting and stopping the ballast (they last longer when not turned on and off anyway, it's one of those weird things that do that sort of thing 8)). Should keep the temps even instead of the 85-60° range I have now too.

ANYWAY, what this means is due to needing light isolation, the two rooms will be sealed off from each other, making side-by-side comparisons simple, especially when combined with my ninja/pirate-like individual watering skills (I like to pour my nutes into a pan, then set the pot in it until it's kinda heavy, then let it drain - it's ghetto ebb'n flow I know, but my plants don't need the same water as each other very often, and I've got the time.

Ok I'm going before I ramble into next month!

Guten Tag!

Awww, you lot are going to have me weeping, you are all so kind, I really do have to thank all the regulars first and foremost, I just did the grow and the discussion that followed came from the gang, for me this has been the most interesting. I will thank-you all on their behalf's, hows that?
Now Mr Badger, Sorry if you thought your post had scared us off, not usually away so long, and the others I spoke of will always answer an urgent Q if you had one.

Glad you joined in, if it is possible? you should start a test when you get your 1000 up and running, you will have such a better idea of what is worth using and/or spending money on, and you'll be helping to add some more answers to the endless questions, that helps everyone.
Your 'duo bloom room' is ideal for side by's as you say, if you could compare two whole gardens that would be great, really valid results!. You would know if you really need that Boost expense for one! , I don't think you need much convincing of the validity of a run of tests

I am pretty sure we decided to start another thread and we can all add our tests to it, it should be really helpful, having plenty of testers updating the thread should be pretty interesting reading whenever you check in, you can start/join that if you fancy, whoever has the next test can kick off, I am easy, I will start a new test soon and start/join the same way depending if i am first?
You can always do a normal grow thread in the relevant section and still post a test side over on the thread i speak of, it wouldn't be fair to ask you only to post with us or die
Thanks again for the many compliments Badg' you are too kind,

I don't bite - I'm not that kind of badger!

Feel free to PM btw if there is ever something ? good brownie recipe, how school went, whatever

?

65*f & 65% rh equaling 100% humidity?... what do you mean by 'air saturation'?

?
what would occur to plant then?

rh & temp function on totally different scales of measurement...

enjoy your garden!

Hiya *m* Ditto?
I hope you are well

 

[gmanwho]

Mistress... hazy. i get quite confused sometimes myself. What i probably should have said is dewpoint in there a few times vs saying RH. I have trouble putting it to writing and i can admit i get confused myselff.

But once again dew in the morning is perfect example. when the air is cooler at night an the rh is higher, max saturation an temps can run at each other unit they meet head on an then theres no evaporation an dew will occur.

Best advice i can say, for myself included,is to do a search on something like
" rh dewpoint comparison " or "maximum air saturation verse rh "

theres a missing link im forgeting an i cant get it to words....cause in all honesty i dont remember all parts of the equation in entirety myself,but hopefully i will ( or someone else) can come back with a better explanation soon.


B-safe

 

[Badgermonkey]

Too much excitement+not used to forums+wake n bake = ^ that mess! I'll work it out 8)

 

[*mistress*]

Mistress... hazy. i get quite confused sometimes myself. What i probably should have said is dewpoint in there a few times vs saying RH. I have trouble putting it to writing and i can admit i get confused myselff.

But once again dew in the morning is perfect example. when the air is cooler at night an the rh is higher, max saturation an temps can run at each other unit they meet head on an then theres no evaporation an dew will occur.

Best advice i can say, for myself included,is to do a search on something like
" rh dewpoint comparison " or "maximum air saturation verse rh "

theres a missing link im forgeting an i cant get it to words....cause in all honesty i dont remember all parts of the equation in entirety myself,but hopefully i will ( or someone else) can come back with a better explanation soon.


B-safe

Hiya *m* Ditto?
I hope you are well

RH importance

rh/vapor pressure
relative humidity is an expression of the actual water vapor pressure, expressed as a percentage of the maximum water vapor pressure possible under certain air+atmospheric pressure conditions.

@ room temp (~60*f), 100% humidity exerts a vapor pressure of 24 torr (~4.65 pound-force per sq "[24*{19.337*10^-3}]=4.65 psi pound-force). >24 torr of vapor pressure exerted on leaves, and leaves sense a vapor pressure deficit.

leaves stomata opening/closing influenced by difference between internal/external vapor pressure. opening/closing of stomata regulates gas exchange+transpiration, which in turn regulates growth/fruiting.

vapor pressure deficit is a lack of water pressure upon plant. this would be a low rh. it is indirect measure of water loss from plant. as plant attemps to balance internal/external vapor pressures, they draw up more water from roots and transpire it into the atmosphere. hence the de-humidifiers used in gardens.

air movement over plant+high temps+low rh reduce plants available water for sugar production. the roots uptake much more water during low rh. but all inter-related to ambient temp(avg. surrounding air temp), actual leaf temp, and root temp.

a 3'x3' plant can transpire a gal. during high vpd (low rh), or a cup during low vpd (high rh). vpd/rh measurements must take into account air temps.
generally, keeping rh as high as possible (~55-75%) keeps the plant in a comfort zone to its genetic desires. lowering rh provides a method of tailoring nute formulas, pushing parameters, etc - as they will be taking up much more water. keep in mind that the water uptake during low rh is mostly just that - water. keeping nute ppm/ec in balance w/ ph is good idea.

prevention of mold/diseases/condensation is the reason for decreasing rh, but it can be higher w/ air exchange/movement w/ tempered evaporation (air movement over/around plants). also, growth slows during high rh, but in fruiting, slow growth is not an issue, fruit production is. lower rh also increases translocation of calcium (why gardeners use calcium additives during fruiting - it is sent to every part of plant during increased water uptake via roots).

not having problems because the plants' comfort zone is pretty broad w/ comparable temps+air movement - just like there's a 'domain+range', so to speak, in nute levels, etc.

note: in general...
lower rh(high vpd)=increased transpiration, translocation, water uptake, greater calcium absorption/transport.

higher rh(low vpd)=slower transpiration, translocation, water uptake, slower evaporation, increased growth.

rh does not need to be >50%, it needs to be tailored to specific environment, w/ specific temps/air circ variables accounted for. can manipulate growth/water uptake from that comfort zone point (~45-65%, again, depending on gardens other inputs).

hope this helps. enjoy your vegetables+garden!

... there is other data around, too. maybe, if have read other posts relevant to water consumption of plants, can fathom direct correlation between how much water is fed & how much is dehumidified daily...

if not checking output & ph of water actually drawn off leaves, & how much is drawn out of room daily - cannot thoroughly determine how much the plants actually drink/eat...

off topic though, dont want to rant...

more data here. all sorts of good greenhouse engineering data, but for this sub-topic, the section on

Management of the Relative Humidity Using Vapour Pressure Deficits
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/opp2902#10

may be of benefit...

while rh is important, not very relevant to foliar feeding - except when the condensate of the feed is stagnant on leaves following.

this is why should be dry in 5 mins. still uncertain about 'air saturation' from what have gathered, gardened, etc... & even if rh is 60-70+ wave: kr*sty...& kbs. freedom!...) can be done w/ lots of air flow...

enjoy your garden!

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

nice concept for a club......

experimental/test lab/advanced techniques sub-forum......
any media. any technique(s)...

1st moderator:
Hazy Lady...

enjoy your garden!

I could not agree more, this has been the most informative test I can remember reading, a fantastic thread from HL thanks to a lot of care on her part and some top quality input from many others, yourself *m* at the top.


An experimental/test lab/advanced techniques sub-forum has to happen.

 

[smallfry707]

BRAVO

BRAVO

well i guess im adding BOOST to my feeding schedule ? Did you ever get the final weight for each of the plants or did i miss that somewhere?

 

[MediScrogs]

This thread is excellent. Nice controlled science based on experience, not imagination, nor preconception, hehe, very cool.

 

[Hazy Lady]

Thanks all

Thanks all

Mistress... hazy. i get quite confused sometimes myself. What i probably should have said is dewpoint in there a few times vs saying RH. I have trouble putting it to writing and i can admit i get confused myselff.

But once again dew in the morning is perfect example. when the air is cooler at night an the rh is higher, max saturation an temps can run at each other unit they meet head on an then theres no evaporation an dew will occur.

Best advice i can say, for myself included,is to do a search on something like
" rh dewpoint comparison " or "maximum air saturation verse rh "

theres a missing link im forgeting an i cant get it to words....cause in all honesty i dont remember all parts of the equation in entirety myself,but hopefully i will ( or someone else) can come back with a better explanation soon.


B-safe

I am keen to see more, I have been busy-ish but I did start to look into Jasmonic acid , told ya! quite incredible stuff, defending plants from insect attacks, inhibiting growth and deciding when the plant should die, just some of the miracles of Jasmonic acid or JA as we experts say , tell us about your Triacontinol plans when you get chance, we are all really interested in that.

Too much excitement+not used to forums+wake n bake = ^ that mess! I'll work it out 8)

Smoking was ruining my reading sessions too, It took real resolve to quit reading.

still on this side of earth's crust...

didnt want to elaborate until reply from member gmanwho provided details of technical position...

but...
in previous incarnation, replied to q about rh... dont know if you are referring to this data, from this thread, or other data, from outside of icmag?:
RH importance
that data was posted by a domgoddes few moons ago... there is other data around, too. maybe, if have read other posts relevant to water consumption of plants, can fathom direct correlation between how much water is fed & how much is dehumidified daily...

if not checking output & ph of water actually drawn off leaves, & how much is drawn out of room daily - cannot thoroughly determine how much the plants actually drink/eat...

off topic though, dont want to rant... You have a free rein to rant here *m*

more data here. all sorts of good greenhouse engineering data, but for this sub-topic, the section on

Management of the Relative Humidity Using Vapour Pressure Deficits
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/opp2902#10

may be of benefit...

while rh is important, not very relevant to foliar feeding - except when the condensate of the feed is stagnant on leaves following.

this is why should be dry in 5 mins. still uncertain about 'air saturation' from what have gathered, gardened, etc... & even if rh is 60-70+ wave: kr*sty...& kbs. freedom!...) can be done w/ lots of air flow...

enjoy your garden!

Always superb detail *m*, CC below is a good judge, you have added so much invaluable information, you have been a great help to me personally, you have always given me great advice and encouragement, I'm really thankful for everything sis, huge

I could not agree more, this has been the most informative test I can remember reading, a fantastic thread from HL thanks to a lot of care on her part and some top quality input from many others, yourself *m* at the top.


An experimental/test lab/advanced techniques sub-forum has to happen.

Hey Buddy, thank-you for the kind words, I am really pleased you also praised *mistress*, she won't like this type of fuss!, I am sure of it, but credit where it is due, *m* deserves loads. Thanks for that too CC
We do have to get the sub forum/ group/ thread thing? going, it would be a shame not to now, seems there are so many looking into stuff anyway, and others already testing, like the guy's above/last page have been, who is it we need to say to CC?

well i guess im adding BOOST to my feeding schedule ? Did you ever get the final weight for each of the plants or did i miss that somewhere?

I didn't weigh them yet smallfry, I was intending to , no I was, I was just waiting for the end of burping and It slipped my mind to be honest, I have taken 5gms of each last week and last night took a couple more of each so I know whats gone and I will weigh tomorrow and edit here with the final weights, thanks for the reminder

This thread is excellent. Nice controlled science based on experience, not imagination, nor preconception, hehe, very cool.

Thank-you on behalf of everyone who made it Medi, very nice of you to say so,

Getting the smoke tests ready to post. wont be long.

 

[Hazy Lady]

Semi-cured smoke tests, potency, length/type of high etc

Semi-cured smoke tests, potency, length/type of high etc

Start with a pic for a change
Below, 2 x Samples of each group.

Below, Bit closer look at them.

All buds are well into the cure now, finished any burping etc, they are just sat maturing nicely
If I had any thoughts of an easy ride I would have been mistaken.
It is one thing placing separate strains in order but 4 of the same cut takes a bit of looking at
Justfyi, I have been very gentle with these buds, I have been as light-handed as possible so as not to add any false firmness.A - control bud, the last week to 10 days have seen the A's showing the biggest change, they have come into their own now, the control buds have hardened and they are pretty close to the C's (molasses group - the hardest of the groups) breaking open the buds they have a nice resiny feel without being sticky, the cure is doing these the world of good, the smoke has become a lot fuller, it hasn't changed tastes, but the smoke as a whole has more body while still being quite smooth, mild. Still no sweet side but the biggest change has been the potency, If you recall? last week I found the smoke so mild I had really ripped on my joint, nearly collapsed a lung as the smoke expanded so much!.

The last 2 nights and one day I have been smoking all samples, I didn't realise at first but I found myself putting the A joint down after 2 or 3 smokes, I subconsciously imagined I was going to cough if I didn't put it down but wan't dwelling on it, I decided I would push my luck coughing wise, I kept smoking for a good few tokes longer than i had been previously, no cough by the way! but when I shook myself out of a snooze it induced, I had given myself face ache grinding my back teeth, I knew then it was the strength of the A that was making me put it down early, I had been too high to notice it.

It is this type of thing I have found a bit difficult, grading 4 smokes of the same plant, if they were grown by 4 people this bit would be sooo much easier
Right now, I would say the A's are the out and out strongest, for raw power (not that this is true narcotic weed but is solid, medium, to strong) but that could well change by the end of the cure.

I think 2 full weeks longer should have completed 99.999999% of any changes and I will do a final smoke test and summary for the record then. the B's & D's are also about full strength and there is a bit of an anomaly with these, they were the most advanced and the trichs had entered the milky/cloudy stage almost a week before the A's and C's, you would assume the first into the harvest window and indeed spending the longest in that window would be the most potent, instead they make you very high, high with a bit of body warmth, and things are funny, the office was on as I was smoking a D last night and even though I have seen the episode many times it had me squealing laughing,

The B - Boost buds, when broken are still slightly sticky but has almost settled to a waxy feel now, feels smooth or moist but isn't wet, smell and taste are wonderful, very rich scent, you want to keep smelling the broken bud and then your fingers when the bud is skinned up, the acrid scent is rounding of, still sharp but more refreshing like a winter mornings air at the top of your nose?
Smokes really full bodied, smooth but you feel it on the back of the throat, type of smoke you have a second toke as you finish one, just very nice draw!

The D - Boost & Molasses buds are almost identical but you just need a little less for the same depth of flavour, and less for the same high, only a toke here or there but it is there, still the stickiest, you can't break the bud and roll up without wiping your fingers, again, really lovely smoke, this does seem rounder, more complete, I think 'B buds with cream' really sums up the D's quite well, as I said the Boost groups have high highs and as with the A's I pushed it! smoking the B and D samples, I ended up tripping right off, I had a mad 1/2 day-dream where Hank Hill was tugging my blouse sleeve at the shoulder, again and again, smiling. I woke myself saying, "Stop it hank, stop f***ing about" out loud, that made me laugh even more.

The C- Molasses buds are doing very nicely, they are sweeter than ever, the Molasses does a great job of bringing the sweet side out imo, along with Boost - in this instance with the D's - the sweetness is made even better, rounder, creamier as I said.
The C's are staying nice and firm, they crystalised very early has given these buds such a nice texture, chewy, very easy to 'pop calyx off the stem running your finger along, they snap off but like toffee not dry sticks, the smoke is very sweet, you taste it very quickly, ripe fruit and a little sharpness not I would not say the C's are weak but as the buds are a touch smaller overall you can say you need that much more for the same effect, I wonder if they didn't naturally compact there would not be much between the groups, I am going to weigh them all, it will be interesting to see if they are a similar weight even though smaller budded, I did notice the c buds have an elongated calyx, not as rounded as the normal calyx shape. I will post a few close ups, I will find a way to photo the C calyx to show you, definitely different. I think I got everything i wanted to say for now, thanks for dropping by everyone, please excuse any errors, it's my bed time now, oh OK 1 more before I turn in, in case I missed anything
Below, Closer-ups of the groups.

And finally

 

[Owl Mirror]

Looking real good Lady !

I cleaned and chopped down my girl today.
Here are some pics before she got chopped.

 

[gmanwho]

Hi Gman', Shame you couldn't bet on the Boosts huh
I have to admit to being confused about the RH?, I see *mistress* has also mentioned the same thing so will let you answer my sister below.

Sticking to the actual foliar feeding for the mo', I am really interested to read you have been 'boosting' this way, we have discussed it a few times over the past weeks but I don't believe anyone had really tried it as you have.

So you are in no doubt of the of value of Canna Boost, with the exception of a few strains?
Tell me, the grows you had improvements on, did you foliar feed those or is the foliar feeding a recent thing and you root fed before?

I understand you would use less and so make Boost more economical, worthwhile for that alone, but I wondered if you had seen differences between root fed/foliar fed Boost? I mean, is there any improvement that foliar feeding brings that would make you foliar feed even if the cost increased instead?. You also found Boost to act as a sort of tonic or kick start for sick plant's, this is new to me, very plausible, I can imagine it 'boosting' the whole plant back to health in some cases.

On Molasses, I am pretty sure all the guys/gals that foliar feed Molasses/Sugar Products all rinsed with fresh water and said they had no problems, I spoke to a friend today about this but he has a huge Scrog so we figured it would be too awkward to clean plants completely, if you have plants in pots it really isn't a problem.
And in a res I think the black stuff is fine!, especially if kept moving, or had an air-stone, I have seen a thin film from the Molasses in a res when sat a few days undisturbed, I would only worry about very fine emitters clogging but other than that I would use Molasses both way's quite confidently.

Do share your findings with us more, and do let us know how the Triacontinol trials go, do you have some raw chem or a product containing it?

I don't know Purplemax or Jasmonic acid but I will by the time you reply, good post, interesting points to discuss, I am gonna need a note if you arrive late again
Glad you joined us

i just realized i missed some of that conversation...

I cant say i can remember seeing a comparison of foliar vs root feed, when i just feed bb with nutes in the past. I didnt use it much in nutes as it was expensive an i shyed away because of the amount of gal's in the rez i sometimes use. i was skeptical. so folair seemed the way. An i went that way right away pretty much.

But rhizotonic, which also is from canna, made me try BB. I also use rhizo foliar.

i had always used random foliar feeding for deficiencies or purple max foliar in the past, it always seems to work much faster, atleast it seems to me it flows that way.

I think im gonna stay away from foliaring the molasses. mIght be to much build up im thinking. i also wanna say that when i foliared bb late late in flower before i think or wanna say i could almost smell an taste a slight sugary carmallized smell an taste at the burn. I have, but was it linked to the bb, im not postive on that.

As for the triacontol , i got some raw powder form from super grow . biz. It basically like .05 grams per 80mil of water an 20 mil polysorbate 20. then u add that solution till u add another 100 ppm to your water.

The thing is it was like a wax based powder, so breaking it down an adding it to water, even in rubbing alcohol, as soon as it added to water it balls back up again. they (supergrow.biz) claim that when useing Polysorbate 20 to the mix it will stay suspended an not seperate. Just got the polysorbate a few weeks ago.

I gotta come up with an idea how i can run a semi controlled test,for me, thats simple enough. When i do start i'll let u know.

As for any explanation on rh temp vs dew point i think doing a search outside of here is best, on the meterology path,not just botany. some good quick data on triacontinol on wiki or a google search will pull up some nice info as well. havent seen a Photo comparison on the triacontinol....

My head hurts.... its late... its been fun

B-safe

 

[Hazy Lady]

Made my day to see that )

Made my day to see that )

Looking real good Lady !

I cleaned and chopped down my girl today.
Here are some pics before she got chopped.

She looks perfect OM, really super job, she is so silver close up. I am delighted to see her finished, will be tasting so good for xmas and new year celebrations, great to see you back by the way

 

[Hazy Lady]

Smashing thank-you gman'

Smashing thank-you gman'

i just realized i missed some of that conversation...

I cant say i can remember seeing a comparison of foliar vs root feed, when i just feed bb with nutes in the past. I didnt use it much in nutes as it was expensive an i shyed away because of the amount of gal's in the rez i sometimes use. i was skeptical. so folair seemed the way. An i went that way right away pretty much.

But rhizotonic, which also is from canna, made me try BB. I also use rhizo foliar.

i had always used random foliar feeding for deficiencies or purple max foliar in the past, it always seems to work much faster, atleast it seems to me it flows that way.

I think im gonna stay away from foliaring the molasses. mIght be to much build up im thinking. i also wanna say that when i foliared bb late late in flower before i think or wanna say i could almost smell an taste a slight sugary carmallized smell an taste at the burn. I have, but was it linked to the bb, im not postive on that.

As for the triacontol , i got some raw powder form from super grow . biz. It basically like .05 grams per 80mil of water an 20 mil polysorbate 20. then u add that solution till u add another 100 ppm to your water.

The thing is it was like a wax based powder, so breaking it down an adding it to water, even in rubbing alcohol, as soon as it added to water it balls back up again. they (supergrow.biz) claim that when useing Polysorbate 20 to the mix it will stay suspended an not seperate. Just got the polysorbate a few weeks ago.

I gotta come up with an idea how i can run a semi controlled test,for me, thats simple enough. When i do start i'll let u know.

As for any explanation on rh temp vs dew point i think doing a search outside of here is best, on the meterology path,not just botany. some good quick data on triacontinol on wiki or a google search will pull up some nice info as well. havent seen a Photo comparison on the triacontinol....

My head hurts.... its late... its been fun

B-safe

Don't worry about the RH, we will figure that again, you are the first on this thread, I believe?, to find raw/ powder Triacontinol, that is great information, rest your head and come back, me too I all in. thanks very much for the replies Gman, most helpful

 

[indifferent]

Great thread hazylady, looks like Boost works, but Boost + Molasses works better.

I'm still on the fence about the value of Boost though - is the improvement large enough to justify the cost?

I think if your grow is good and all factors within a good range of values, you won't see as much benefit from Boost as you would if there was some deficiency in some factor -the Boost replacing the lost performance.

I had a spider mite problem so I had to spray my ladies with Nite Nite Spidermite, I added seaweed extract and some AN Big Bud Blast so it's also a foliar feed, never used the AN stuff before, I happened to have a small bottle sat in a drawer that needing using up.

The Spider Mites are gone, and my plants are looking good, whether the foliar feeding has helped with this or not I am not sure, but I intend to carry on further foliar experiments.

I think the next test for hazylady could be foliar feeding Boost vs root feeding Boost!

I have some Beeswax and that contains triacontanol, but how I can extract it and give it to my plants I do not know. I hear Superthrive contains Triacontanol, so maybe spraying Superthrive for the first 2-3 weeks of flowering would be good?

Triancontanol and some other PGRs (Plant Growth Regulators) are available on ebay:

Triacontanol, 1 gram, under 8 quid:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triacontanol-...ertilizer_Soil_Amendments?hash=item27aba97c0b

Different seller, 5g for under 14 quid:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SG-PGR-85-Tri...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e58b95559

You can also buy the Cytokinin 6-Benzylaminopurine, 1.48 for 1g:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Super-Grow-Cy...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e58866822

They also sell Indole Butyric Acid, which is used in rooting gels/powders, Indole Acetic Acid, Gibberelic Acid and one or two other interesting things, I feel a thread coming on where we test some of these raw ingredients!

 

[Badgermonkey]

Guess what? It's early and my baked goods are great!

Not exactly following in your footsteps as reaching the same conclusions:
I am feeding Cannaboost 2ml, Coco-Wet 1ml, Snow Storm Ultra 1.2ml, all per liter in a foliar, everything seems happy, except it seems foliar can melt away trichomes - anyone else notice this?
Snow storm ultra is 10.99 a bottle, purple maxx 29 at my store
*I use a syringe to measure nutes so I KNOW the dif in 1ml and 1.2ml
If you fill a Canna ltr bottle's measuring cup just barely to the bottom line under where it says CANNA on the front, that's 6ml*

http://www.briteideashydro.com/index.php

Yes, I am so lucky I can just "go to the store" for all kinds of exotic items and the used stuff can be GREAT values! (like, oOo I dunno, a 1000w reflector for $100 w/6" air tube and hood; or my "Slimboyzz" 8 bulb 2' T5 for $130 BULBS INCLUDED - all this and a 10-15% discount for being a regular. How do they keep track of regulars you ask; is there a list... newp, they just recognize me, and the owner spent a good hour answering my questions and being basically what I would view the as 'ideal' shopkeeper.

ANYWAY - what was I on about...O yeah; I don't foliar molasses either:
1. I want it to feed my mychorrizae
2. I already have weird houseflies that seem to love my room, I <3 my Clean Air Purge III
3. My mister is pretty fine ( giros-botanica.com model VAP-1001) - it's really brass, comes with a re-build kit of washers and a white thingy and some hose and a fitting that screws onto 2ltr bottles, Foxfarm ltr bottles, etc. I recommend replacing the included hose with silicon hose as the silicon won't kink, and you can use the same hose for just about any bottle. Oh yeah, it's only $10 I returned the first one I got defective/no questions asked. I recommend silicon over plastic hose for EVERYTHING; hypoallergenic and ever notice that horrid smell off of plastic hose? The kinks with memory so once it kinks that spot is always a problem? Make life easier on yourself, it's not that much more expensive, get it at pet fish stores/aquarium section of Chinese Retail Outlet *walmart