Can we discuss bubblegum?

[bigbadbiddy]

Just to clarify:
I didn't mean to derail the thread into breeder bashing.
Just got triggered is all.

I too am only interested in finding a seed-line or failing that, animating weird or someone else into making one, that actually produces Bubblegum smelling and tasting phenos (if possible reliably).

If one exists I am all for finding out about it.

Just thought we are past the point in this thread of recommending TH/Serious in that regard.

 

[slipdefeu]

slard

slard

@Croissant

i remember it was a large selection in switz greenhouse, yesterday i made some researchs on my favourite franchie forum archive to know exactly but nobody really knows

All i know atm is that Slard (a french grower) bring back a bubblegum clone from Hydrotechnik, a switzerland growshop, and distributed it roughly 15 years ago.
It was spread under the name bubble slard or bubble hydro.
It was admitted that it was a serious seed phéno because it was easier to get this kind of seeds atm but as i said, nobody really knows.

Slard just came back some months ago, i'll let him a pm, i suppose he could give me some details

All i know about it is that serious should have widely beneficiate of the hype around this clone ^^

Not strong but a typical happy smooth, nice smell/taste/bag appeal
8 to 9 weeks max of 12/12 otherwise you loose the rose bubble...
Should smoke it quickly after cure or freeze it to keep the bubble.

An old and well know grower said he find better but didn't keep it at this time...

More difficult to put your hand on it nowadays because of the stongest hype who came after, amnez....diesel/og... ^^
but still around

I tried to find some pics but old links have expired, mine too lol
Found some pics from my friend smooth, not really the best of this clone but it is :

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/618566DSC1972.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/441439DSC2048.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/133460DSCN0002.jpg

 

[Ganja baba]

I went by a year of research and digesting grow reports from all around the web and then connecting the dots, supplementing it with what I know.

What I know first hand is that they fucked up the AK47 and the Nirvana F2s being sold back in the day were better AK47 than the Serious ones when they lost their parent(s) in a raid.

Researching the story and what happened with the AK47 (one of the all-star strains back when I started, think of OG Kush today, that's what AK47 used to be, everyone and their mother wanted it, it won all those cups and it was a great, great strain back then), resulted in me learning about so-called "breeders" and the very few actual breeders remaining in the business.

Sagarmatha is a thief (read up on the blueberry history and how DJ got robbed by them, although he got robbed by many others too, to be fair). Also they went the feminized route which is a sure indication (although not proof in itself) of a "breeder" cashing in and not doing any breeding work.

TH Seeds used to be solid and good as far as I can gather from online reports. But they recently announced that they will only produce feminized seeds going forward.
Pair that with more and more reports as the years go by where people only find sub-par or unexceptional plants in their seeds and complain about their purchases and you get a damning picture.

Serious is the same as TH Seeds. While they haven't gone full fem and certain strains in their stable seem to be well preserved (Kali Mist), even more strains, including their all-stars AK47 and Bubblegum, are clearly no longer the same and have been severely altered or "bred" to shit.


If you read the entire thread and only a few pages back, people seem to agree that while TH and/or Serious Bubblegum used to be pretty good, it still wasn't the same as the famed Indiana Bubblegum clone and you had to pop quite a few seeds to find something that can be considered "actual" Bubblegum. With their asking price, popping enough seeds wasn't an option for many.
Those that did it anyway came back very disappointed in the last 5 or 10 years or what.

Counter challenge (that I made a couple pages back):
Find me a grow report (ideally not from a newbie) within the last 5 years (with beans purchased/produced in the last 5 years) that praises the TH or Serious Bubblegum.

Spoiler: You won't. I scoured the web for a year to find it.

Even if you could, you would find 5 or 10 reports of people who damn these lines for hermies and generic shitty herb that is definitely nothing Bubblegum.



I wrote the strain off.
Until someone like weird produces some seeds based on the actual, proven Bubblegum clone, I hold the believe that growing a large quantity of Nirvana Bubblicious or White Label DoubleGum holds the best chance of finding something actually Bubblegum.

BOG might be another alternative. You can regard his seeds as going the White Label DoubleGum route and getting a head start of several years. At the cost of trusting his breeding decisions and knowing that he apparently had a tendency to bottleneck his beans more towards sour and menthol than sweet pink bubblegum (for which the Indiana Clone was apparently known for).



Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to piss in your cereal or sour what you have.
You might well have a nice Bubblegum pheno from Serious. But you would be the exception. Most people don't find any in a pack, or even in 2 or 3.

Hearing recommendations for Sag, TH or Serious just rubs me the wrong way.

I agree with every single thing you said in your post , the worst plants I've grown have come from th seeds , people need to realise these big Dutch comps out source their seed making to Spanish fem makers , all these Dutch companies at one time or another shined , sadly they all went to shit years ago , the Dutch laws make it very difficult for a seed bank owner , who by now is pretty rich and runs a business has got old and probably doesn't even smoke cannabis any more ,got kids family and settled down , these guys sure don't have a cannabis castle holding their old strains , the strains are held by workers growers and so on as the years go by the owner looses control of what was once there master work , but demand fuels the market people still want the legendary seeds and will keep buying them , only the old growers will know that what some has just grown as feminised kalimist is in no way at all similar to the actual kalimist we all used o love , I grew it out feminised , not sure what it was but it was one of the worst plants I ever grown . These strains are only preserved by private breeders and collectors , I used the pre 98 kalimist for the kalishnapple which was awesome , and I agree that even back in the day when the bubblegum and blueberry where hot topics , Dutch masters blueberry for example never had a nice sweet blueberry pheno ever after years of growing them all ways dry woodsy purple stem peppery buds , bu if you purchased blue mystic from nirvana or may kc you would get strait up blueberry , they added northern lights and it was better , same with a lot of the strains at the time nirvana and kc had the proper hybrids much like the smaller breeders now , where as sensi seeds was the market leader and dominated the seed and strain industry , their lines were more stable and yielded very well , you knew what you was getting and you got it when planting sense seeds , but when you wanted to find some thing special you would find them in comps like nirvana , sagamtha at one point had special genetics and where amazing but they to changed , great topic for discution

 

[slipdefeu]

where as sensi seeds was the market leader and dominated the seed and strain industry , their lines were more stable and yielded very well , you knew what you was getting and you got it when planting sense seeds , but when you wanted to find some thing special you would find them in comps like nirvana , sagamtha at one point had special genetics and where amazing but they to changed , great topic for discution

+1

I found some other pics from the "slard" one :


http://www.cannaweed.com/uploads/gallery/album_2095/gallery_741085_2095_30199.jpg
http://www.cannaweed.com/uploads/gallery/album_2095/gallery_741085_2095_87353.jpg
http://www.cannaweed.com/uploads/gallery/album_2095/gallery_741085_2095_82698.jpg

 

[Croissant]

Just to clarify:
I didn't mean to derail the thread into breeder bashing.
Just got triggered is all.

I too am only interested in finding a seed-line or failing that, animating weird or someone else into making one, that actually produces Bubblegum smelling and tasting phenos (if possible reliably).

If one exists I am all for finding out about it.

Just thought we are past the point in this thread of recommending TH/Serious in that regard.

No it is definately important to discuss this stuff.

I am of the opinion though that it will be a Case of seed line by seed line and to find the gems may possibly take popping multiple packs or f2 ing and seed hunting etc.
It is there were some real gems from the late 90s early 2000's. I think it us worth the effort to preserve that good old stuff whether it be through seed hunts of finding people still holding the keeper phenos or old seed stock.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

For what it's worth:
I bought some seeds through MRN auction last year and am currently flowering a Critical Mass lady which is outshining everything else (although also mostly MRN gear) in the garden by a long shot. Insanely ahead on flower cluster development and just pure white all around, there are more pistils than bud it seems, it looks like it is covered in tentacles.
Just past week 4/day 28 of flowering as well so still lots to go.

The kicker is that during stem rubbing I already noticed a faint smell that reminded me of spearmint or doublemint chewing gum. But it was in the background.
The plants are still remarkably low odor, basically none when I smell the buds but I hope that is either due to my environment (low temps) or simply too early in flower (although I had pronounced smells in veg already from some of the plants but in veg I had higher temps as well).

Anyway:
On my search for Bubblegum I stumbled upon a quote by Nevil over at the MRN forum who suggested crossing Critical Mass and NL#5xSkunk in order to obtain Bubblegum as he said this is how the strain originally was created (back when Critical Mass went by the name BigBud).

Going by what I have so far, the CM lady I have could have the potential to go in that direction. Unfortunately I have no suitable NL#5xSkunk male. Only 2 more NL#5xSkunk females that seem unremarkable so far.

If the CM builds on those flavors/aromas/odors in the coming weeks and months and the end product convinces as much as the vegging and flowering did, then I might bother to pop another 30 or so NL#5xSkunk seeds and see if Nevil was right.

But I view this as a long shot, no disrespect to Nevil.
Even if it takes me the right direction, it would likely still be years of work and I have other things in mind during that time.

Anyway, if anything comes of it, I will let you kind folks know. But don't hold your breath.

I still think our best hope is someone like weird making a seed line.
Next best I still think is Nirvana, WhiteLabel or BOG. Large number of seeds (50+) and stamina for pheno hunting.

 

[Croissant]

The truth is we don't know what the deal is with some of those dutch companies. Sure the word is th outsource but we don't know if and when they rework strains th improve a line etc.

We have a report from 2010 the stock for ssbg is good and another 2nd hand report that sometime after 2000 it wasn't as good as the renowned keeper pheno Slard.

It is possible that the line was reworked multiple times. In reality we don't know.

Tbh the bubblegum I tried was a bit lacking in the high but the bubbleberry had me smiling so hard my face cramped up.

I came across a ssh pheno that smelled like juicy fruit gum and fresh spearmint. It was still in veg and I never saw the flowers but it was the best smelling plant I ever came across.

 

[therevverend]

I cheated Croissant got the Bogglegum in clone form from a friend who did the hunt through the seeds. Bog showed up in Seattle a few years ago for Cannabis Cup and it seems like some other events, he threw around a bunch of free seeds. There were a lot of great cuts of his strains floating around the local dispensary scene. Looked it up, guess it was 2013. Wasn't hard to find a great pheno of his gear. That cut was awesome, for a clone it had excellent vigor.
I miss the great bubblegums and blueberries, and bubbleberries and bluegums, of the 90's. In the PNW there was a lot of local blueberries around, much different then the DJ Short type. Strong Indica types with a strong blueberry flavor.
Sad how there's these fads, for a few years lots of a type goes around, then something else comes on the scene and it disappears forever. We'll never see the variety of blueberries and bubblegums again. The number of threads on here with people begging for a strong blueberry, or bubblegum, or classic skunk or sativa, is sad. Used to be, I could pop 20 random bagseed and come up with 2 or 3 of the above.
Someday we'll be begging for chemdawg or diesel. 'It smelled like asphalt at noon, I miss that stuff...'

 

[Aota1]

Some months ago we got in some Oregon Blueberry they called it. Was the indica super Blueberry tasting version. Not DJ's. It was that old school. So it's around. At least partly

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Blueberry-wise I believe it looks a lot better than with Bubblegum.

For one, DJ is still around and so are his beans. Might be a bit old though. But then again his son, JD is reworking these old lines.
From what I can tell, there still have not been disappointments in DJ's gear.
The only "problem" is the price tag which is very high. But apparently still worth it so it's alright in my book.

Then there are apparently a few noteworthy Blueberry genetics, albeit often not pure, around. Be that in Chimera's gear or Jordan of the Islands (although they seem to have gone downhill as well from opinions I gathered) or elsewhere.

Me, personally, I found convincing Blueberry seeds from PeakseedsBC out of Canada. It's a mix of DP, Sagarmatha and DJ's Blueberry and it looks insane and the reports on it have also been great (although very few can be found).
Have currently 5 of them in germination (2 of them have popped out, the other 3 are severely behind it seems).
Very stoked to find out if Peakseeds Blueberry line holds what it promises.


Either way:
Regarding Blueberry there is more reasonable stuff out there.
Bubblegum, not so much it seems.

 

[Grojak]

I cheated Croissant got the Bogglegum in clone form from a friend who did the hunt through the seeds. Bog showed up in Seattle a few years ago for Cannabis Cup and it seems like some other events, he threw around a bunch of free seeds. There were a lot of great cuts of his strains floating around the local dispensary scene. Looked it up, guess it was 2013. Wasn't hard to find a great pheno of his gear. That cut was awesome, for a clone it had excellent vigor.
I miss the great bubblegums and blueberries, and bubbleberries and bluegums, of the 90's. In the PNW there was a lot of local blueberries around, much different then the DJ Short type. Strong Indica types with a strong blueberry flavor.
Sad how there's these fads, for a few years lots of a type goes around, then something else comes on the scene and it disappears forever. We'll never see the variety of blueberries and bubblegums again. The number of threads on here with people begging for a strong blueberry, or bubblegum, or classic skunk or sativa, is sad. Used to be, I could pop 20 random bagseed and come up with 2 or 3 of the above.
Someday we'll be begging for chemdawg or diesel. 'It smelled like asphalt at noon, I miss that stuff...'

Blueberries still around if you know what rocks to look under... Green Beans Seeds did a BX to a pre 99 DJS BB

 

[greenlegend420]

I agree with every single thing you said in your post , the worst plants I've grown have come from th seeds , people need to realise these big Dutch comps out source their seed making to Spanish fem makers , all these Dutch companies at one time or another shined , sadly they all went to shit years ago , the Dutch laws make it very difficult for a seed bank owner , who by now is pretty rich and runs a business has got old and probably doesn't even smoke cannabis any more ,got kids family and settled down , these guys sure don't have a cannabis castle holding their old strains , the strains are held by workers growers and so on as the years go by the owner looses control of what was once there master work , but demand fuels the market people still want the legendary seeds and will keep buying them , only the old growers will know that what some has just grown as feminised kalimist is in no way at all similar to the actual kalimist we all used o love , I grew it out feminised , not sure what it was but it was one of the worst plants I ever grown . These strains are only preserved by private breeders and collectors , I used the pre 98 kalimist for the kalishnapple which was awesome , and I agree that even back in the day when the bubblegum and blueberry where hot topics , Dutch masters blueberry for example never had a nice sweet blueberry pheno ever after years of growing them all ways dry woodsy purple stem peppery buds , bu if you purchased blue mystic from nirvana or may kc you would get strait up blueberry , they added northern lights and it was better , same with a lot of the strains at the time nirvana and kc had the proper hybrids much like the smaller breeders now , where as sensi seeds was the market leader and dominated the seed and strain industry , their lines were more stable and yielded very well , you knew what you was getting and you got it when planting sense seeds , but when you wanted to find some thing special you would find them in comps like nirvana , sagamtha at one point had special genetics and where amazing but they to changed , great topic for discution

I was thinking they guy that owns thseeds was american moved over there to work and moved back to colorado a few years ago?

 

[therevverend]

DJ Short's blueberry is great, not knocking it here, but it doesn't really smell like blueberries. There's a lot of congenital problems in his lines. I spent a lot of money on a couple packs of seeds, most of them died from dampening off. My conditions weren't perfect but I all my other seedlings did fine.
I have a blueberry hybrid, good strain but doesn't smell like blueberries. It's a problem with a lot of the crosses out there. The back cross to '99 sounds interesting. Maybe a way to restore the original hybrid vigor to the line.
Curious about the Sagamartha Blueberry, is it a DJ Short descendant or one of the old PNW Indica blueberries? It's been so long I can't remember. At this point I'm more interested in the old Indica type Aota is talking about then Short's lines unless there's one with a overpowering blueberry smell.
Blueberry has been preserved much better then Bubblegum. Not surprising, the Indiana '80s source is long gone, the strain has been inbred for so long. Either outcrossing it for vigor and losing the smell or inbreeding and weakening the line. I'll bet those traits are recessive.
It's ironic because I have a lot of hybrids containing blueberry or bubblegum. Including Aota x Bubblegum. But the Bubble or berry isn't dominate.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Sag's Blueberry is a direct rip from DJ Short.

Well documented but forgot where I read it.
Story goes DJ gave them (and DP and SoL) some seeds once he was done working his BB under the assumption that they would do a co-operation thing where they take the line to the next level together, make crosses etc.

All of them phased him out and basically just took his seeds and said "thank you, we take it from here" never to involve him in anything again and not paying a damn dime for anything.
SoL apparently was the best "collaboration" in it all but even that was nothing to write home about.


The peakseedsBC blueberry could be interesting for you as it is a mix from Sag, DP and DJ's and Mike has taken it completely into the Indica direction.
I asked him how many seeds I would have to pop to find a Sativa pheno and he said he had never seen one in his years growing it and considers his BB 100% Indica.

 

[Aota1]

This is what we had. One of our vendors holds it. I will get any information he's willing to share about it

 

[Grojak]

DJ Short's blueberry is great, not knocking it here, but it doesn't really smell like blueberries. There's a lot of congenital problems in his lines. I spent a lot of money on a couple packs of seeds, most of them died from dampening off. My conditions weren't perfect but I all my other seedlings did fine.
I have a blueberry hybrid, good strain but doesn't smell like blueberries. It's a problem with a lot of the crosses out there. The back cross to '99 sounds interesting. Maybe a way to restore the original hybrid vigor to the line.
Curious about the Sagamartha Blueberry, is it a DJ Short descendant or one of the old PNW Indica blueberries? It's been so long I can't remember. At this point I'm more interested in the old Indica type Aota is talking about then Short's lines unless there's one with a overpowering blueberry smell.
Blueberry has been preserved much better then Bubblegum. Not surprising, the Indiana '80s source is long gone, the strain has been inbred for so long. Either outcrossing it for vigor and losing the smell or inbreeding and weakening the line. I'll bet those traits are recessive.
It's ironic because I have a lot of hybrids containing blueberry or bubblegum. Including Aota x Bubblegum. But the Bubble or berry isn't dominate.

I crossed a 55 day indica pre99 DJS to blue satelite 2.2, hunting those and will hit a legendary 55 day sativa pre99 and offer those for people.... Both blueberries have a blue berry muffin smell when broking open buds, I'm so excited for this. And with the BS 2.2 being in there sativa lovers will be able to find a true 10-12 week sativa blueberry.

 

[Ganja baba]

I was thinking they guy that owns thseeds was american moved over there to work and moved back to colorado a few years ago?

Yes I do beilieve the same Adam from thseeds moved back . Good luck to him

 

[Ganja baba]

I crossed a 55 day indica pre99 DJS to blue satelite 2.2, hunting those and will hit a legendary 55 day sativa pre99 and offer those for people.... Both blueberries have a blue berry muffin smell when broking open buds, I'm so excited for this. And with the BS 2.2 being in there sativa lovers will be able to find a true 10-12 week sativa blueberry.

That's sounds great mate good luck

 

[Dioni]

Bubblegum to Blueberry lol

 

[siftedunity]

Now let me ask, why would you try any bubblegum but those 3 (Sagamartha, TH Seeds or Serious) knowing the above knowledge? I didn't research before getting my Serious Bubblegum but I've wanted it since the 90's and had grown / seen AK and White Rhino from Serious already so I knew he was good.

I do understand Bogs is real nice but other than him I'd stick to one of those 3.

Idk why you keep quoting simon for serious seeds. hes a complete sell out and a charlatan. im not sure about sagamartha but the other two are shit. they basically churn out loads of poor quality seeds nowadays based off their old reputations. they used to have a passion for good genetics, now they just want to make money at the expense of growers (mostly newbs).
I would advise anyone to steer well clear of them. especially serious seeds. oh and btw, white rhino wasn't created by serious seeds. im pretty sure that was greenhouse seeds maybe sensi back in the day I cant remember.