Building New Panels - Sharing the Process

[positivity]

That's the direction I'd take. High cri warm whites in a smaller proportion or left out and supplemented separately. It was pointed out once that the amount of far red included in those leds can make nice flowers but the extra far red will probably lead to excessive node length...stretching. If used exclusively of course.

Think if I was shopping for white it would be for the highest lumen outputting warm white rather than cri, probably one of the veros.

 

[rrog]

I have to say with all this light (300W) and the most red coming from the XM-L WW, stretch is something we had to work toward. The lights were raised to 16" and a 60W red Halogen added to veg. Plants look great, but internode distance was short. After the red and the raising of the lights, some welcomed stretching. I'm not there growing this so I can only influence so much, but the lights were finally raised...

 

[WeedIsGod]

...Plant physiology is a product of an environment with a CRI of 100 - outdoor daylight - and this is the genetic material we're working with.

As it is perceived from the Earth's surface, the sun is not an ideal light source due to atmospheric scattering. The sun is not truly 100 CRI, it is merely close. And this is only for portions of the day. Near sun up/sun down the perceived light isn't remotely close to the original, ~5700K light that was emitted, most of the Blue is filtered out. Atmospheric scattering, however, has nothing to do with CCT or CRI. Whether or not the sunlight appears 3000K is simply coincidence. The light quality an outdoor plant is confronted with is more complex than CCT and CRI.

Just so I understand what you are you saying WeedIsGod - do you think that high CRI in white LED is desirable simply because of the extra red/far-red energy?

Yes.

If it's only the red energy that makes the difference I might be better off getting higher-lumen-lower-CRI Whites and adding a side order of 3W Red diodes. The Bridgelux Vero line really dim as CRI increases.

Yes, the little bit I said about radiometric efficiency of Red phosphor in my previous post touched on this. Area51, Astir, Apache Tech, Philips with their L-Prize bulb, Cree with some of their downlights, ALL use Red LED's in combination with White to essentially achieve a lower CCT, yet maintain high lumen/W ratings. A low CRI Neutral White + Red combo might not have as much IR in the spectrum as a Warm White heavy spectrum, though. Warm White + Red will probably stretch like hell unless it's late in flower.

I recently bought a 150W/930 Philips G12 CDM Elite. <-Click. 2800K, >90 CRI nom, good amount of Red output (check the bottom of the product leaflet), 100 lumens/W rating, and that's with a good amount of near UV and Deep/Far Red output which rate very low in the lumens scale. A very impressive light source.

 

[PetFlora]

Hold on to your LED hats AC LED: http://www.lynklabs.com/

 

[habeeb]

Still not grasping the significance here. Are we saying that CRI is essentially an accuracy measurement? If an LED says it's 645nm, a high CRI would be 645nm, and a lower CRI would be 640 or 650nm?

sorry not on much..

it's basically more red in a white color chip... which is a god thing.. and you get a better light to see the plant

and more red in the further region.. the chip will show lower output, but it's only because red is a "weak" color for "power" , but trust me you didn't lose anything, it was only converted toward the red!!

 

[habeeb]

"Warm White + Red will probably stretch like hell unless it's late in flower."

can't say this is true with my testing.. haven't tested with pure red's, but wouldn't assume to do that much..

I found stretch very tight, and honestly, WW have all the blue you need, and high CRI have a little more, so even cut the NW if running high CRI.


this test of my is already old, running 3 months ago.. but to be honest I haven't done another test to see.. I'm checking colors in veg.. but they all grow fine, and even WW keep tight node spacing in veg even! the CW seem to keep the plant too short and bushy, which is think it's odd to have side branches too long for such a short plant..



honestly, if you want to experiment in flower.. I would start with high CRI and a couple 660nm. my 150 watt light beat a 250 bulb.. beat it, and I would say with a couple more high cri and 4x 660mn, results should be even greater. I am approaching half the wattage of a bulb in this territory, and these are "old chips" ( xm-l2 )

another thing to note is I think this is only achievable remotely by getting the led 2 inches from tops.. light drops, so the key here I think to the success was how damn close I got the bulbs..

another note, if you want ultra max levels.. best star ( copper ) and high fans are needed to accomplish. I didn't use the copper slugs, and I was running low power fans.. I believe anyone with the same setup could yield a greater outcome.. also I didn't run the system before ( strain / media / nutes ) so dialed in, I would only think very positive results..



sorry, was going off, but I haven't shared much of this info till now

 

[hempfield]

Hold on to your LED hats AC LED: http://www.lynklabs.com/

Every LED can run in AC because they are ... diodes, which let the current pass in just one direction (from Anode to Katode). You can even use LEDs to rectify the AC and transform it to DC. The major problem with LEDs is the lower value for the reverse voltage, which can lead to LED burn if it exceed the maximum value.

In my opinion, the best improvement to LEDs will be the ability to limit the running current by themselves, eliminating the need for extra additional devices. Just imagine a led chip (like Cree CXA for example) with plug-n-play capabilities. It would be awesome.

This may be considered the first step, but still is a long way to go ahead : http://www.lynklabs.com/images/T2623-12W-WOD-120K.pdf

 

[PetFlora]

I mostly agree.

Using my 8 bulb hot5 I figured out adding 600+ too early causes a ton of stretch. If one's tent is tall enough, that may be desired, but in a 5ft tent, best to keep WW to a minimum until buds are developed.

I also have 3 @ 90w ufo leds, but they are fixed spectrally. One is 3500/5000/R/B that has 450/660

With hot5 I can simply swap bulbs in/out 2400/2700/3000/6500

As to 660, it's pretty much oversold. 630 is responsible for 95% of PR, and some strains (Indica dom) do not respond to it period. Easy enough to put 5% on a separate o/o switch

I think 3 smaller panels (NW/WW/WW) would be trick- if diy one panel mix 2/3 NW/WW in th middle then run a perimeter of WW on a separate o/o switch for once buds are set

Veg with NW then add first WW once buds set add the second WW, moving the NW in between

"Warm White + Red will probably stretch like hell unless it's late in flower."

can't say this is true with my testing.. haven't tested with pure red's, but wouldn't assume to do that much..

I found stretch very tight, and honestly, WW have all the blue you need, and high CRI have a little more, so even cut the NW if running high CRI.


this test of my is already old, running 3 months ago.. but to be honest I haven't done another test to see.. I'm checking colors in veg.. but they all grow fine, and even WW keep tight node spacing in veg even! the CW seem to keep the plant too short and bushy, which is think it's odd to have side branches too long for such a short plant..



honestly, if you want to experiment in flower.. I would start with high CRI and a couple 660nm. my 150 watt light beat a 250 bulb.. beat it, and I would say with a couple more high cri and 4x 660mn, results should be even greater. I am approaching half the wattage of a bulb in this territory, and these are "old chips" ( xm-l2 )

another thing to note is I think this is only achievable remotely by getting the led 2 inches from tops.. light drops, so the key here I think to the success was how damn close I got the bulbs..

another note, if you want ultra max levels.. best star ( copper ) and high fans are needed to accomplish. I didn't use the copper slugs, and I was running low power fans.. I believe anyone with the same setup could yield a greater outcome.. also I didn't run the system before ( strain / media / nutes ) so dialed in, I would only think very positive results..



sorry, was going off, but I haven't shared much of this info till now

 

[habeeb]

" Just imagine a led chip (like Cree CXA for example) with plug-n-play capabilities. It would be awesome."

that would be awesome.. if it had support like the dc-dc drivers, where you just plug the wire into the "ballast", and how many you want or don't want, and plug it in.. swap outs would be amazingly simple, and very productive!

 

[cimenk_hel]

Well this thread died a few years ago. I just read through it and it contains lots of useful info. Any regular posters still around?

I'd be interested to know if there are any red (around 660nm) LEDs that have a forward voltage close to 3V, that could be run at 1000, 1400 or 1750mA? The reason I ask is if I find some, I might consider adding a couple to existing XML strings. If such reds are not available I will keep the higher aesthetic and figure out another way to add red to the spectrum.