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Building New Panels - Sharing the Process
- Thread starter rrog
- Start date
Yep. In a series string, the current flows through each component to get to the next. Any open component will kill the entire string, as WIG & babel mentioned.
The star has no through connections if the chip isn't installed - it just has some leads that connect from one spot to another, simplifying getting power to the chip. If the chip opens up, it is just like it isn't installed on the star. Depending on the star configuration, there may be zeners installed across the power leads, but they should also be open at normal (or below) voltage levels.
Ah! I had that all wrong in my mind's eye.
So I'll just replace that LED. Cool! Life is sweet, eh?
Thanks!
Just a little grow light update: The first grow the lights were 12-14" above the tops during veg and most of flower. IMHO, the lack of red during veg plus the huge light 12" overhead kept them like short Xmas trees.
This time, after 4 weeks of veg and some coaxing, the lights were raised to 16" and halogens added. Bigtime internode improvement, finally. They were just too stocky to fill out.
So next time raised lights and halogen (or some other red) from the beginning.
This time, after 4 weeks of veg and some coaxing, the lights were raised to 16" and halogens added. Bigtime internode improvement, finally. They were just too stocky to fill out.
So next time raised lights and halogen (or some other red) from the beginning.
yeah, my NASA strips had the same issue~ when I first put them together, a blue blew! Had to order the replacement and wait then change out the burnt diode. The whole circuit is out if 1 diode is out {x-mas lights?}
Good info BTW~ Nice to know there's plenty {too much!} of blue w/ that setup
Good info BTW~ Nice to know there's plenty {too much!} of blue w/ that setup
A little off-topic story, but related to LEDs:
Couple weeks ago one of my kids had to germinate some wheat seeds for a school project. Like every kid, she wanted first to use soaked cotton wool as medium. Knowing what this means I suggest her to use perlite instead of cotton and water from our 60 gal. aquarium. (2 in 1 : leds and aquaponics
)
Two days after the seeds have been soaked and planted over 1" layer of perlite, they started to germinate. The kid was kind of upset because the project deadline was very close. So I remembered that I have built a test LED module, using 6 XM-L (3 WW, 2NW, 1CW) driven at ~2500mA.
In just two days under the LEDs, with 24/24 light schedule, the wheat grass was 6-7" tall, extremely dense and dark green.
So yeah, LEDs rocks !
Couple weeks ago one of my kids had to germinate some wheat seeds for a school project. Like every kid, she wanted first to use soaked cotton wool as medium. Knowing what this means I suggest her to use perlite instead of cotton and water from our 60 gal. aquarium. (2 in 1 : leds and aquaponics
)Two days after the seeds have been soaked and planted over 1" layer of perlite, they started to germinate. The kid was kind of upset because the project deadline was very close. So I remembered that I have built a test LED module, using 6 XM-L (3 WW, 2NW, 1CW) driven at ~2500mA.
In just two days under the LEDs, with 24/24 light schedule, the wheat grass was 6-7" tall, extremely dense and dark green.
So yeah, LEDs rocks !
could be the CW or NW if your running the CW.. honestly, after running mine, I would tell everyone to run 2/3 WW and 1/3 high CRi WW.
I'm using all WW, and some 2,700k I believe high CRI in my panels now..
monoclepop
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_CRI_LED_Lighting
It's yet another factor to consider (besides colour temp, lumen output, heat output, efficiency, power draw...).
The Bridgelux Vero 2700k WW modules (for example) come in a range of CRI - where the emitters with the highest CRI have lower light output by around 20%. Which in the case of the Vero range of emitters at least, makes high CRI a big trade off.
It would be interesting to see how the plants react to differing CRI emitters in the same colour - my brain tells me "more lumens is better", but we're dealing with billions of years of evolution carried out under the big 100CRI emitter in the sky. With leds it's clear we're easily able to oversaturate plants with some light frequencies (such as too much red or blue for example), which can lead to deleterious effects like weird internode spacing, bud density and resin production.
For sure, the higher CRI parts will send more sun-like lumens to your plants which should mean more sun-like results, all other things being equal.
Unfortunately though, all things aren't equal, and the light output definitely is lower. A dodgy led salesperson would no doubt tell you "It's lower yeah, but think of the quality"! I'd love to see some experimental set ups testing differing CRI rated 2700K WWs for example.
If you're not short of emitters/lumens (and running XMLs gently @ 6W shows that you're in this camp) then I'd suggest you look at higher CRI-rated bins if possible, just so your know you're producing light your plants have evolved to expect.
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Great thread rrog, I've been through this three or four times over the past month.
It's yet another factor to consider (besides colour temp, lumen output, heat output, efficiency, power draw...).
The Bridgelux Vero 2700k WW modules (for example) come in a range of CRI - where the emitters with the highest CRI have lower light output by around 20%. Which in the case of the Vero range of emitters at least, makes high CRI a big trade off.
It would be interesting to see how the plants react to differing CRI emitters in the same colour - my brain tells me "more lumens is better", but we're dealing with billions of years of evolution carried out under the big 100CRI emitter in the sky. With leds it's clear we're easily able to oversaturate plants with some light frequencies (such as too much red or blue for example), which can lead to deleterious effects like weird internode spacing, bud density and resin production.
For sure, the higher CRI parts will send more sun-like lumens to your plants which should mean more sun-like results, all other things being equal.
Unfortunately though, all things aren't equal, and the light output definitely is lower. A dodgy led salesperson would no doubt tell you "It's lower yeah, but think of the quality"! I'd love to see some experimental set ups testing differing CRI rated 2700K WWs for example.
If you're not short of emitters/lumens (and running XMLs gently @ 6W shows that you're in this camp) then I'd suggest you look at higher CRI-rated bins if possible, just so your know you're producing light your plants have evolved to expect.
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Great thread rrog, I've been through this three or four times over the past month.
tebos
Member
You know how some Cool White lights seem to be blueish and colors are kind of fading, that's a low CRI! It plays a major role for lighting applications.
High CRI LEDs have an increased amount of red (compared to lower CRI LEDs) and red is a very efficienct spectrum for plants, that's about it.
High CRI LEDs have an increased amount of red (compared to lower CRI LEDs) and red is a very efficienct spectrum for plants, that's about it.
monoclepop
Member
CRI only applies to "white" emitters, so those red LED numbers you used (620-650nm for example) aren't relevant. Those are easily measured wavelengths - a 650nm emitter has all of it's light emitted close to the single wavelength we call Red.
Remember what we describe as "white" light are a bunch of different wavelengths all at once. Once upon a time you probably sang about sunlight refracted and split up through suspended water particles: "Red and yellow and pink and green, purple and orange and blue".
A nerd could rewrite that song as "Red 650nm, Red-orange 620nm, Green 550nm, Cyan 500nm, Blue 460nm etc". The important thing for growers is to think about is how much Red there is in proportion to Blue in proportion to Green in proportion to Yellow in proportion to...
So CRI is essentially a measure that compares the components of an emitter's white light to the sun's white light. The closer the number is to 100 the more the light is supposed to resemble the visible radiation from our nearest star once it travels through space and the atmosphere to our eyes.
It's so confusing because our existing descriptions for white emitters are a bit shit. We call them 2700k or 5000k - as the emitted light "looks like" the colours given off from glowing carbon when it is heated to 2700kelvin (real hot) or 5000kelvin (real fucking hot). This Kelvin rating is a bit useless as 2700k isnt a wavelength - it's a whole bunch of different wavelengths being emitted at once and the 2700k label only roughly tells us how the lightbulb/led appears to the Mark 1 eyeball, not what wavelengths of light are actually present.
A low CRI 2700k emitter looks "warm white", but will seem a bit weird and artificial because it'll make some colours look funny. A high CRI 2700k emitter looks "warm white" and colours should* appear more natural - more like colours look under the sun.
*http://lumenistics.com/is-color-quality-scale-cqs-an-improvement-on-cri/ - focused on retail lighting, but useful to browse
Makes great sense. Thank you. And I appreciate the time spent to explain that. Tebos- thank you as well.
So in a sentence, we're simply measuring how similar the white is to sunlight. Got it. In any event, the actual spectrum is what's relevant. So not sure why CRI is even mentioned on a weed forum? Seems easier to say we want more red. And I'd agree with that. The 60W Halogen is working nicely.
So in a sentence, we're simply measuring how similar the white is to sunlight. Got it. In any event, the actual spectrum is what's relevant. So not sure why CRI is even mentioned on a weed forum? Seems easier to say we want more red. And I'd agree with that. The 60W Halogen is working nicely.
That's misinformation. CRI has nothing to do with the sun. Although the sun is a rather good example of a blackbody radiator, it's appearance is ~6000 Kelvin. The reason why it's not an ideal light source is because of atmospheric refraction.
High CRI 2700K doesn't look one iota more "sun-like" than your typical 80 CRI 2700K. It does, however, more closely resemble an ideal 2700K light source.
High CRI LED's typically have more Red and Deep Red output than their lower CRI counterparts. Red phosphor is less efficient than Yellow, Green, etc. so this is why lumen values usually suffer, as well as radiometric efficiency.
However, high CRI 2700K, while looking nothing like the sun, has a LOT of Red output, which also happens to be the photosynthetic absorption peak of many higher land plants. No, it's not "natural" because our sun is not a 2700K light source (although, perhaps at some time of day it could possibly resemble one), yet flowering results may still be excellent.
As phosphors become more efficient I don't think it will even be a question, 90+ CRI all the way.
High CRI 2700K doesn't look one iota more "sun-like" than your typical 80 CRI 2700K. It does, however, more closely resemble an ideal 2700K light source.
High CRI LED's typically have more Red and Deep Red output than their lower CRI counterparts. Red phosphor is less efficient than Yellow, Green, etc. so this is why lumen values usually suffer, as well as radiometric efficiency.
However, high CRI 2700K, while looking nothing like the sun, has a LOT of Red output, which also happens to be the photosynthetic absorption peak of many higher land plants. No, it's not "natural" because our sun is not a 2700K light source (although, perhaps at some time of day it could possibly resemble one), yet flowering results may still be excellent.
As phosphors become more efficient I don't think it will even be a question, 90+ CRI all the way.
monoclepop
Member
Yeah, you're absolutely right WeedIsGod in the sense that the CRI measures against a reference light source.
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/education/learning/terminology/cri.asp
But you've kind of misunderstood my point, in that as herb cultivators we're interested in plant reaction to a light source, rather than accurate colour depiction. Plant physiology is a product of an environment with a CRI of 100 - outdoor daylight - and this is the genetic material we're working with. High CRI emitters therefore should be better substitutes and less likely to over/under-saturate with blues, reds etc.
***Big grain of salt here - the complaints about high CRI failing to ensure accurate red reproduction should probably alert us that CRI is a tool of limited utility for us. Unlike someone designing retail store lighting who needs to make sure that the bright-red sweater looks bright-red and that skin tones are flattering - most growers dont care if the silver tent looks purple and green leaves look black providing the crop is dank.
Just so I understand what you are you saying WeedIsGod - do you think that high CRI in white LED is desirable simply because of the extra red/far-red energy? Or, do you think that the more complete and "natural" colour spectrum that high CRI emitters produce is desirable for plant growth? I'm hopefully out shopping for NW/WW emitters this week, so your opinion and expertise counts!
If it's only the red energy that makes the difference I might be better off getting higher-lumen-lower-CRI Whites and adding a side order of 3W Red diodes. The Bridgelux Vero line really dim as CRI increases.
Shit, someone needs a smoke after typing all this lol.
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/education/learning/terminology/cri.asp
But you've kind of misunderstood my point, in that as herb cultivators we're interested in plant reaction to a light source, rather than accurate colour depiction. Plant physiology is a product of an environment with a CRI of 100 - outdoor daylight - and this is the genetic material we're working with. High CRI emitters therefore should be better substitutes and less likely to over/under-saturate with blues, reds etc.
***Big grain of salt here - the complaints about high CRI failing to ensure accurate red reproduction should probably alert us that CRI is a tool of limited utility for us. Unlike someone designing retail store lighting who needs to make sure that the bright-red sweater looks bright-red and that skin tones are flattering - most growers dont care if the silver tent looks purple and green leaves look black providing the crop is dank.
Just so I understand what you are you saying WeedIsGod - do you think that high CRI in white LED is desirable simply because of the extra red/far-red energy? Or, do you think that the more complete and "natural" colour spectrum that high CRI emitters produce is desirable for plant growth? I'm hopefully out shopping for NW/WW emitters this week, so your opinion and expertise counts!
If it's only the red energy that makes the difference I might be better off getting higher-lumen-lower-CRI Whites and adding a side order of 3W Red diodes. The Bridgelux Vero line really dim as CRI increases.
Shit, someone needs a smoke after typing all this lol.
