Building New Panels - Sharing the Process

[habeeb]

I looked back a bit to refresh my memory and saw the talk on 730 and reds. Not sure of the exact post your referring to.
I do think your absolutely right on isolating what's needed by running just warm and seeing if there's a lack of blue.
I'm waiting on my parts now for a small panel. It will be 7 ww 6 nw 3 cw. Just looking for a mix that will veg well so I mixed it a bit with a lean towards warm.
The reason for the mix is I'm running a veg panel that is cree 6500k heavy and while I like the effect it has had on shortening nodes the overall health seems a little lacking. As if i need some warm light added in for balance.
If this panel I'm about to build works, the next will be a larger flowering array. Probably all ww. And add what is needed from there. Just leave room for a strip of 660nm, a strip of violet uv, a strip of nw. For 730 I'm thinking along the lines of a passively cooled sink with a parabolic style reflector on its own timer. Maybe try one run with it on all 12 and one run with it on 15min beginning/end
Hopefully someone else does it first so the process can be speeded up
But I do this as much for fun and learning as anything so no pressure....
With heat and electrical consumption a concern it has to be led...and with the current commercial products being all over the place....I may as well build it myself and make it flexible for upgrades
Apologize for the long winded response, got too much time on my hands lately

yes, that's what I was talking about, the red and far red, as RROG was asking about that... I think someone posted before me?


I am actually doing just that, and I have a pic to share in the DIY thread later today.. I think the WW are doing very well... but the test is the end test.. and second I can't fully say as I run for seed... so hard to judge weight when the calyx's are in full production for seeds...


it's what I'm finding too.. I'm not liking the CW's. can't say if there's some in the mix, but I am not liking the plants with the CW. I am liking the plants with the NW in them though for veg. I have a couple lamps with solely 4000k, and one with pure 4500k, and one 4500k and WW ( that one has seedlings so can't say yet.. )




I do want to make a lamp already with the WW and 660 / maybe 2 730 and possibly 2 violets.. have them on a dimmer, so when you work in the room you can get "white light" still, and not a pink / orange-ish color.

 

[Kreamy]

Reading back through things, I have two questions regarding the wiring of a panel. When using switches, it's stated in multiple places that it should be AC > switch > fuse > mov > driver. can the switch go after the mov? reason being, can I simplify things a bit in terms of circuit protection, with one ac terminal supplying multiple drivers, can I put the switches just before the drivers to turn on an off strings as needed, with one fuse and mov protection multiple drivers? Or should I just error on the side of caution and have one mov and fuse for each?

Can I get a little more explanation as to the placement of the zener. I understand the placing the zeners back to back, on the dc side. should they be placed from + to -, before the leds, or should they be in series just on the + side? Looking back at post 350 from rives, it sounds like it should be + to -, but I don't quite get how that is providing protection, but then again, I'm no expert here.

 

[rives]

Reading back through things, I have two questions regarding the wiring of a panel. When using switches, it's stated in multiple places that it should be AC > switch > fuse > mov > driver. can the switch go after the mov? reason being, can I simplify things a bit in terms of circuit protection, with one ac terminal supplying multiple drivers, can I put the switches just before the drivers to turn on an off strings as needed, with one fuse and mov protection multiple drivers? Or should I just error on the side of caution and have one mov and fuse for each?

Can I get a little more explanation as to the placement of the zener. I understand the placing the zeners back to back, on the dc side. should they be placed from + to -, before the leds, or should they be in series just on the + side? Looking back at post 350 from rives, it sounds like it should be + to -, but I don't quite get how that is providing protection, but then again, I'm no expert here.

I'm not sure where you saw the circuit layout that you are referring to, but the fuse should be first in line so that it protects all downstream components, including the switch. I bought some pretty handy little "power entry modules" that will accept a power cord similar to what feeds a computer power supply, and they have a fuse built into them. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kobiconn/161-R3013-E/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui8Cuy8BYoTgPjlXsUxn6QU6L5Nyq8qqKrI9C6s%2fmSKAg%3d%3d

Regarding the number of fuses, it largely depends on the wattage of your fixture. If you only have a couple of drivers and size the main fuse fairly close to the fixture amperage, then it will work fine by itself. If you are running a number of drivers and each one is a relatively small percentage of the overall load, then you might want individual fusing for the drivers that is sized much closer to the amperage of each individual driver. If something goes awry, having fusing sized close to the amperage of each device can help limit damage, make it easier to troubleshoot, and possibly keep your fixture running at reduced capacity if it needs to run unattended for long periods.

The zeners go from the positive power rail to the negative, not in series. The idea is that they are open until the voltage exceeds their setting, at which time they short the spike across to the other power rail and hopefully keep it from reaching the LEDs.

 

[Kreamy]

Rives, thanks for the input. I was thinking fuse before switch, my thoughts just got ahead of my typing. I have a lpc-35-700 and lpc-60-1050 on one heatsink. By the sounds of it, one fuse should be fine for both drivers. Should I be using a 2 amp fuse then? I think I have some 3a around, but I think that may be too high. regarding the mov, should I do one for each driver? I want to put a switch before each driver, so that I can run my reds independently. So I guess the question now is should I split the circuit for each driver before or after the mov.
Thanks again for all input. all my parts have arrived; assembly will begin soon.

 

[rives]

So your total wattage is 95w, and with driver losses could be up around 110w or so. That puts you right at 1 amp draw. Inrush on switching power supplies can be very high, but unless you have some extremely fast fuses, they shouldn't see it. 3 amp fuses are probably fine, but I'd try a 2 amp - I like having the fuse rating as close as possible to the draw without getting into nuisance blowing.

It doesn't make much difference where the mov's are located - they should work fine wherever they are handy to install. I prefer to mount them close to the main fuse and power entry point to try and suppress any spikes before they get to the downstream components. Also, bear in mind that MOVs can only dissipate a given amount of energy before they self-destruct, and they can grenade pretty impressively when they do blow. If you have a spot to mount them where flying shrapnel is unlikely to damage anything else, it would be good.

 

[Kreamy]

Sounds easy enough. I'll pick up some more fuses that are lower in amperage. Thanks for the mov tip. All the components will be in a bud industries utility box. So that should keep everything contained. Thanks again, I'll let you know how the build goes

 

[Kreamy]

I got my lights wired and functional today. A huge thanks to Rrog, Rives and others who've contributed. I've got two heatsinks, one with 6 XPG whites for veg/supplemental flower, and another with a mixture of 24 philips rebel blues, 630 and 660s, and XPGs, that can be switched to control the red balance. This will eventually go into an NGB style cab.

Rives, how can I go about measuring the wattage of each string with a multimeter? is this possible?

 

[rives]

I got my lights wired and functional today. A huge thanks to Rrog, Rives and others who've contributed. I've got two heatsinks, one with 6 XPG whites for veg/supplemental flower, and another with a mixture of 24 philips rebel blues, 630 and 660s, and XPGs, that can be switched to control the red balance. This will eventually go into an NGB style cab.

Rives, how can I go about measuring the wattage of each string with a multimeter? is this possible?

Glad to hear things are rolling!

You can calculate the wattage by first measuring the voltage that the string is being supplied with, and then multiplying that times the current. You would need to move the multimeter probes over to the mA jacks and then put the meter in series with the string to get a current measurement. Volts x Amps = Watts.

I would suggest getting a kill-a-watt meter, they are pretty cheap and very handy when you are playing with this stuff.

 

[Firebrand]

Just for reference

MOV

(Metal Oxide Varistor) A discrete electronic component that is commonly used to divert excess voltage to the ground and/or neutral lines. Acting like a pressure relief value, an MOV is made of zinc oxide with small quantities of bismuth, cobalt, manganese and other metal oxides.

See surge suppression.

A varistor is an electronic component with a "diode-like" nonlinear current–voltage characteristic. The name is a portmanteau of variable resistor. Varistors are often used to protect circuits against excessive transient voltages by incorporating them into the circuit in such a way that, when triggered, they will shunt the current created by the high voltage away from sensitive components. A varistor is also known as Voltage Dependent Resistor or VDR. A varistor’s function is to conduct significantly increased current when voltage is excessive.

 

[FirstHit]

I do want to make a lamp already with the WW and 660 / maybe 2 730 and possibly 2 violets.. have them on a dimmer, so when you work in the room you can get "white light" still, and not a pink / orange-ish color.

I'm looking to build this sooner rather than later if you'd like to see one before you go all in, or you can build off of the errors we find in mine.

Got to supplement UVA/UVB, 635,660, and the blues, plus 740nm for the boost before and after your main light is on.

 

[rrog]

What are you planning to boost blue / UV?

For red, we're trying halogen on all flower, all day. Just to compare to the last grow where red was only AM / PM.

 

[FirstHit]

rrog I'm going to use the 740nm LED posted on these forums, I will find the link. Sorry though guys I'm still new to this forum stuff as far as posting goes, I don't know how to do the markup very well.

http://www.mouser.com/new/ledengin/ledenginLZ1emitters/

I'm looking at the LZ1-10R300, I did put up a post buy it's formatted so poorly and I do not have permission to edit my posts. Here is that link as well if you can be bothered, I tried to quote myself clearly but even that doesn't look very good, I'll edit it as soon as I have enough posts to do so and use the 2nd post for the build pics/FAQ's.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=271189

Weezard says that different frequencies of light during flower induce different types of buds. He says' 635nm is for production, 660nm is for larger/denser flowers, and 740nm wakes starts the flower chain faster if left on 15min before/during your light, and 15min after your light to assist in some kind of what I think is a protein build/degrade cycle. The overly simplistic metaphor they used was "It's like giving your plant coffee in the morning and sleeping pills at night." sorry I wish I could find the thread.

Another thing I need to think about is UVA/UVB regiments, best in high intensities for short periods or low intensity continuously, I wish I could understand a bit more of the math involved, it would make this a lot easier.

But I don't know, I have a few other ideas going now, maybe using all whites is the answer.

 

[rrog]

My buddy will be sporting the 60W halogens all day, all though flower. So all reds will be covered. Not a pure LED grow, but the original goal was great light without heat and that's still happening.

 

[rrog]

Update: Maybe someone has an idea. One complete string of LEDs is down. I am not near the fixture, as I built it for a friend who is far from me.

Anyway, for each driver I have a fuse, Zenner, and MOV. Fuse was replaced, and no apparent issues at all with any Zenner or MOV. I assume if they were compromised it would be noticeable(?)

Oddly, LED #2 in the string lost its little glass dome. Seems that the string should still function, so I think that's just an odd coincidence.

This leads me to the driver itself, which seems unlikely, yet here we are. He has no multi-meter but I could send him one if there were a way to test these things.

Thanks for any thoughts...

 

[rives]

The first thing that comes to mind is that the LED that popped it's lens somehow got zorched and the resultant heat/pressure lifted the lens off. If it failed open, the rest of the string would go dark. Jumpering across the leads on that chip would light the string if that was the case.

The driver could have failed. A voltmeter would need to be placed across the power supply attachment points at the ends of the string to see if there is voltage present. I don't recall if you fused both the AC & the DC sides, but if the DC side is fused, pull the fuse and check the power on the hot side of the fuse holder. If several LEDs shorted at the same time, the current levels demanded from the driver could be so high that it is shutting itself down as soon as it senses the load, and removing the fuse will isolate the load from the driver.

 

[hempfield]

The multi-meter is critical. Without it you can just guess which part is bad.

What can he do is to bypass each led at a time, to see if one in the string is dead.

I have some leds which lost their protective dome and still working 3 years later. The light seems a little more intense , but it is spread all over (the dome acts also as a colimator lens).

 

[rrog]

Every LED in the string is off, and the second LED in the string has the popped top. So given that #1 LED is out, I surmised that the problem was upstream from the LEDs

No fuses on the DC side

 

[rives]

Every LED in the string is off, and the second LED in the string has the popped top. So given that #1 LED is out, I surmised that the problem was upstream from the LEDs

No fuses on the DC side

If any one of the LEDs opens up, it will kill the entire string - the open LED effectively becomes a switch, opening the circuit at that point.

 

[luvdemshrooms]

Edit: Never mind. Poor memory.

 

[rrog]

If any one of the LEDs opens up, it will kill the entire string - the open LED effectively becomes a switch, opening the circuit at that point.

Even the one upstream (toward driver) from the opened LED?