Building New Panels - Sharing the Process

[rrog]

OK Update time. I've been thinking about the two groups of LED growers. Some have grows that ripen well or even fast, while the other group have delayed harvest and few amber trichs. I'm wondering if the lack of 660 and 730nm in the Cree XM-L isn't setting me up for the delayed group:

[/IMG]

In the above image, I'm using the WW (bright red line) and the NW (middle line), and not the CW (blue line). I have a 50/50 blend running right now. 300W output.

So now I'm thinking about adding a few diodes, each on its own little sink, and attaching them around the perimeter of the existing sink. I'm just wondering how many, and if I should stick to 730 or add a couple 660s.

Any opinions?

 

[rives]

I would try the 730's. My Hybrid fixture has a substantial percentage of 660's and still experiences late or nonexistent onset of amber. However, the onset of flowering takes place very quickly after switching the timing to 12/12 - usually around 5 days, sometimes less.

 

[2cent13adz]

...

Any opinions?

Sure. Remember the lamp I posted about earlier? The guy running it gave some feedback.

In short: He don't want to give it back.

Somewhat longer: Growing same cut for years with HPS, he claim most things like dense buds, frostiness, taste, yield etc are same or better. Most noticable difference is they are faster under LED. I'm not sure if amber or not, sure about effect tho... Next harvest in 2-3 weeks I think, will try to make a few pictures if possible.

The lamp itself presented zero problems so far, now 4th (5th?) grow. Others built in similar fashion also working great. So how to fix what's not broken? Just like u, I follow the UV SbS thread. Then we have the 700+. Haven't found any leds exciting enough to insta-buy just yet.

I noticed that u are hesitating if to build the rest of the panels planned. If I were u, I'd sit back and see for myself what's the outcome of your first build. Take it from there.

 

[xmobotx]

i supplement w/ a HO T5 which is supposed to do UV and far red for aquarium

if anything; pistils brown a little premature for my preference so it must be there

i should probably leave it out until late but run perpetual

 

[rrog]

That T5 has some good red, but really none of these lamps have output at 300nm, where UV-b resides.

For my 300W panel, I wonder how many 730's? http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/hyper-far-red-730nm/ ???

EDIT- All I can find are the 1W 730s. Anyone know of another higher wattage source or have an idea how many I should add? Again, I have 50 XM-L 10W diodes running low, so whole panel is 300W. 50/50 mix of WW and NW

Thanks for the assist.

 

[habeeb]

here's some 740nm, that can be driven high.

thanks for the pics.. I haven't done shit with my LED's for the fact I sold my house, and trying to find a rental with a German Shepherd is not fun.. hopefully around the corner, then I will be testing all sorts of DIY stuff.. ( lens testing / color spectrum testing / all white vs. white / red panels... )


I'm leaning toward right now for flower ( 2 WW / 1 NW ) or possibly ( 3 WW / 1 NW ) .. looking forward to some results though with what you get and what you say specifically about the blue or lack of.. I plan on testing right after my VEG spectrum tests, a all WW panel for flower even ( that should clear anything up real quick about blue or lack of when talking about whites in flower)




be careful with testing with the far red though man, you might not know what's what, testing is easier done with you run a side by side.. or at least make sure to run a test with the far red off if you add them.. I'm sure a new grower can wait .. they need to learn patience anyways... and I'm sure your a nice guy sharing your stash anyways..

have fun, look forward as we all are to your results

 

[rrog]

Hey Habeeb-

Thanks for the link. I see the LZ1-00R300 there.

Looks like a good spread. Any guess as to how many I should add? 2? 4?

I hear you on the rental with the GSD. Good luck with that.

So you'd really load up the WW in a flower mix.

 

[rrog]

Earlier Rives had commented that LEDs tended to bring on flowers fast. WOW. That is so true. My friend has very mature flowers after only 4 days. Never saw anything like it (from the pics)

 

[habeeb]

Hey Habeeb-

Thanks for the link. I see the LZ1-00R300 there.

View Image

Looks like a good spread. Any guess as to how many I should add? 2? 4?

I hear you on the rental with the GSD. Good luck with that.

So you'd really load up the WW in a flower mix.

you might need to ask rives on the zener on the starboard.. not sure if that affects anything or not, if you go that route.

well I know only from another panel, the HGL uses 25-26 watts for 270 watts.. so there might be a starting point for you to figure.. up to you if you want to go over under.. this is the price of DIY, as no one exactly knows, or has the equipment / time / setup to do trial runs over and over.. and I guess if you leaned more toward that you would think about starting up a company vs. growing some bud for yourself.. who knows. I was going to add around 16 watts to 150-200 watts on my panels, but that was purely for the placement of the layout design more so then consideration of watts.. I also have many panels to play around and do side by sides too....

well the WW test is going to be more of a test of "what's wrong or missing" vs. I think that's the way to go sort of thing.. it should show us more whats wrong then right.. but who knows, it might hit the ticket.. it's why I want to try it out, as so many people are wondering on whites, and what we should be doing with them... I would rather know then guess, which is why I set off on the adventure to build so many panels and keep going with this, minus the snag with housing.. but I am curious to know, so I will test it myself to see.

there is also the lumibulb if interested.. little high price, but could be good if your tired of building / whatever reason you might have..

 

[rrog]

Thanks for the clarification on the WW, Mr. H. Test it yourself


Hmmm... So 30 Watts for 300W panel seems to track. These are 5W LEDs, and you mentioned they could be driven hard. Can I get a full 5W outta them? Even if I shorten their life from 12 years to 7 (haha)?

 

[rrog]

While I'm at it, seems 660 is well represented. 730 can be augmented. Is there some other wavelength that the WW, CW and NW don't cover well?

What about Cryptochrome and UV-a 315-400nm?
What about Near Infrared at 750+?

 

[rives]

While I'm at it, seems 660 is well represented. 730 can be augmented. Is there some other wavelength that the WW, CW and NW don't cover well?

What about Cryptochrome and UV-a 315-400nm?
What about Near Infrared at 750+?

My line of thought on the current trend toward creating broad-spectrum lighting with LEDs is that it's like doing a mural with needlepoint. At least to me, much of the attraction of LEDs is the ability to hit the peaks for chlorophyll A & B with perhaps a nod toward a couple of bandwidths that are hard to quantify as being necessary but contribute to things like trichs turning amber. The practice of using 13 -15 different colors of LEDs to hit everything that a plant can use seems like it is just flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks. At that point, it makes far more sense to me to use lamps like the 315w CDM - they are much cheaper and easier to implement, the new ballasts are giving them nearly equivalent longevity, they have very similar levels of efficiency and excellent penetration. The attraction of LEDs is to hit just the necessary bandwidths, and hit them much harder. The rub is determining which ones to hit!

 

[rrog]

Yes but CMH is hot and LED is closer to being the universal solution. Adding a couple of favorable wavelengths beyond WW and CM doesn't seem to blow the deal for LED.

I'm interested in adding the 730 and thought I'd ask about other ID'd wavelengths.

 

[PetFlora]

As most of you know I am a huge fan of DIY, but assembling a bunch of individual led diodes is way beyond my skill level.

That said, I have enough skill to rewire a T8 fixture, so I bought 4 iBright HO tubes @ 23w (@ $35)

They have only been installed 5 days, the pistils started uber- cranking after just 2 days.

Come by to watch the show

 

[rrog]

Check out these 730nm Flower Initiators. Eatcake recommended them. I'm recommending to my friend. We'll see.

http://led4growth.com/All Lighting Products.htm#EXPERIMENTAL PRODUCTS

In the meantime, I'm looking more at 750-800nm as well as UV-a (315-400nm)

 

[bbspills]

far red + uvb

far red + uvb

If ya want a cheap way to supplement far red instead of using expensive 730+nm leds, you can use good ol' incandescent bulbs. The bulbs I use are incandescent Halogen GE Reveals and I run them 15 minutes prior to lights on then continue them for 15 minutes after lights have turned on. Then I turn them back on 15 minutes before lights off and I run them for another 15 minutes after lights off.

Incandescents put off an insane out of IR and hardly any other usable plant light.

Doing so cuts down the dark period and you can extend your lights on time an additional 1.5 hours if you so choose.

I get really good results when I extend my lights on for 13 hours (15 min incandescent + 12.5 hours led panel + 15 min incandescent after lights off)around week 3 of flowering and then I cut it back to 12.5 the last week or so to (15min prior + 12hour main + 15min after).



I also supplement 10.0 UVB reptile bulbs for 4 hours during lights on.

My flowers initiate extremely fast and ripen with no probs.

My main LED panel is a diamond series 100 and I've also supplemented 4 10W 660nm LEDs for below canopy coverage.

I am interested in building a diy cree LED light though, so ya'll keep up the good work.

 

[rrog]

What a great idea!!!!!

Why wouldn't that work? Now the question is, do we use a brief exposure at dawn and dusk or do we ALSO leave on all day? Far red is active all day, right?

 

[bbspills]

No reason to leave on all day unless you enjoy wasted energy. Whole purpose is to trigger the plant to initiate the flowering process quicker.

Hence the term trigger lights in the greenhouse world

 

[rrog]

This was discussed here or elsewhere, and I'm vague on the reply, but isn't it the case that in the early AM and PM we see the far red, but those same Infrared wavelengths are present all day? We are simply more aware of the red in AM and PM?

I'd like to understand this better

 

[bbspills]

Far red or infared during the day does not have a great impact as the red and deep red takes over as the DEEP RED spectra causes the Phytochrome to switch from the Relaxed Nighttime state to the Active Daytime state in moments, making plant growth spring into action.

However, the abundance of infared and lack of deep red (630-660) after ligths out triggers the plant that darkness is coming and quickens the process that Phytochrome takes from 2 hours to a matter of minutes