Leaving the tank at room temp gives you more pressure for injection of super cold viscous solvent. It doesnt make your recovery time faster, it will actually make it slower but that shouldn't be an issue if you after chillers are cold enough that the vapor comes out as liquid at the end of them
Building an IC69 Heat Exchanger
- Thread starter Thread starter Hydrosun
- Start date Start date
Spartan70,
What sunfire said about tank pressure is correct.
On recovering the butane in the coils and lines behind your pump, what some brothers have done is add a tee with a valve and a hose connection into that line somewhere (could be before or after the coil). Once recovery is finished, make sure the coil is valved off at the inlet and the tank is valved off, then use a hose to connect your pump to this new tee and recover the butane into a separate tank that is on ice.
Some people who run everyday will just valve off that coil and leave it pressurized with butane until the next day.. but that's a situation where you would need to know that someone else couldn't come back unknowingly and have an accident.
Also, when recovering from your chiller coil, it will help to remove it from the cold bath and allow the tane to warm up.
Some of the more experienced brothers might chime in and describe their process, but I think it should be something similar.
GH
I'm the only one who ever touches my system. I leave tell coils pressurized but It's very little pressure. I'm only on a regular ice bath and I have maybe 25 psi with a fully brimmed tank, 48#s solvent in a 100# tank.
If you regularly purge atmosphere and water from your tank you should never experience high pressures in you tank or coils.
If you regularly purge atmosphere and water from your tank you should never experience high pressures in you tank or coils.
Dab Strudel
Active member
Lol do you use a pully to flip that beast?
GH & Sunfire,
Thank you for the detailed response. I did today valve the lines as I am the only one who touches the system. After, vacuuming to 29.5 hg I noticed that as I release the pressure and slowly open the recovery valves on the collection vessel and the injection valve (with the tank valves closed) this seems to relieve the pressure. Although, I have yet to read about this as a correct procedure so any input would be appreciated whether if in fact this should be done. Everything, I have read states that the injection valve and recovery valves are to remain closed at the final stage.
GH,
I was under the assumption that I should keep the chiller coil in the cold bath. This seem like it would eliminate the possibility to plump the IC69 into my ss pot as I would still have to take it in and out of the bath. When using this technique of taking the coils out, have you found your recovery times faster?
Thank you for the detailed response. I did today valve the lines as I am the only one who touches the system. After, vacuuming to 29.5 hg I noticed that as I release the pressure and slowly open the recovery valves on the collection vessel and the injection valve (with the tank valves closed) this seems to relieve the pressure. Although, I have yet to read about this as a correct procedure so any input would be appreciated whether if in fact this should be done. Everything, I have read states that the injection valve and recovery valves are to remain closed at the final stage.
GH,
I was under the assumption that I should keep the chiller coil in the cold bath. This seem like it would eliminate the possibility to plump the IC69 into my ss pot as I would still have to take it in and out of the bath. When using this technique of taking the coils out, have you found your recovery times faster?
Spartan,
The cold temps that the coil sits in will drop the vapor pressure of the butane inside the coil to a point where it is difficult to recover. (i.e. the tane in the coil is going to be liquid). to make it easier to recover this butane, you could take your coil out of the cold bath and let it warm up. this will raise the vapor pressure and assist your pump in a speedier recovery.
I was saying all this in reference to the immersion style chillers. If you have a coil that you are going to plumb into a pot that will drain out of the bottom, you wont need to remove it. That is what GW does. He or someone else might be able to comment more on the recovery process for a self draining coil.
GH
NorPene Solutions
Member
subzero temp effects on connections?
subzero temp effects on connections?
Greetings All,
I am building a IC69 type heat exchanger and I'm looking for a little insight into my design thoughts. I am using a 20" SS stock pot with a glycol solution with 3 x 1/2" x 50' SS coils piped in and out with compression and NPT fittings through the side of the SS pot with welded bulkheads. This heat exchanger would be set in a subzero deep freeze containing water/ice.
My question is: On the outside of the SS pot, where the welded bulkhead fittings join with a NPT thread/jic fitting to join up the 1/2" jic SS hoses, would the subzero temps cause a problem and leaks with my connections and SS/PTFE HOSES that come out of the pot and then would sit in the water/ice solution in the freezer?
Or would I be better off using a top feed and top exit with valves and just valve off the butane within the coil instead of draining?
Is my concept sound or am I missing something? Could I remove the ss pot from the picture and fill the freezer with a glycol or alcohol mix and place the coils directly in the freezer?
Thank you All kindly!
subzero temp effects on connections?
Greetings All,
I am building a IC69 type heat exchanger and I'm looking for a little insight into my design thoughts. I am using a 20" SS stock pot with a glycol solution with 3 x 1/2" x 50' SS coils piped in and out with compression and NPT fittings through the side of the SS pot with welded bulkheads. This heat exchanger would be set in a subzero deep freeze containing water/ice.
My question is: On the outside of the SS pot, where the welded bulkhead fittings join with a NPT thread/jic fitting to join up the 1/2" jic SS hoses, would the subzero temps cause a problem and leaks with my connections and SS/PTFE HOSES that come out of the pot and then would sit in the water/ice solution in the freezer?
Or would I be better off using a top feed and top exit with valves and just valve off the butane within the coil instead of draining?
Is my concept sound or am I missing something? Could I remove the ss pot from the picture and fill the freezer with a glycol or alcohol mix and place the coils directly in the freezer?
Thank you All kindly!
Last edited:
Greetings All,
I am building a IC69 type heat exchanger and I'm looking for a little insight into my design thoughts. I am using a 20" SS stock pot with a glycol solution with 3 x 1/2" x 50' SS coils piped in and out with compression and NPT fittings through the side of the SS pot with welded bulkheads. This heat exchanger would be set in a subzero deep freeze containing water/ice.
My question is: On the outside of the SS pot, where the welded bulkhead fittings join with a NPT thread/jic fitting to join up the 1/2" jic SS hoses, would the subzero temps cause a problem and leaks with my connections and SS/PTFE HOSES that come out of the pot and then would sit in the water/ice solution in the freezer?
Or would I be better off using a top feed and top exit with valves and just valve off the butane within the coil instead of draining?
Is my concept sound or am I missing something? Could I remove the ss pot from the picture and fill the freezer with a glycol or alcohol mix and place the coils directly in the freezer?
Thank you All kindly!
I position my self draining heat exchangers directly above what they are draining into.
Every foot of lift for butane requires .26 psi in its readily flowable state, and more as it thickens and gels.
You might consider circulating the chilled solution from the freezers through the heat exchanger can using a pump.
NorPene Solutions
Member
Gotcha GW, Thank You Kindly. I'll check the threads for a suitable pump recommendations.
Is it okay to put the coolant mixture directly into the freezer?
Gotcha GW, Thank You Kindly. I'll check the threads for a suitable pump recommendations.
Is it okay to put the coolant mixture directly into the freezer?
Depends on the coolant, but most likely you can. You can run many of them full of water.
U silicone sealed the seams of my freezer but the chest freezers are made for manual defrost and should not leak.
I wouldn't put alcohol inside the freezer, that sounds like a nice explosion when you open the lid and the lights or compressor kicks on.
I skipped doing sub zero as I realized I would have to elevate the freezer greatly and dig down the tank to get a gently slope from the bottom of the coil to the top of the tank. You want your in on the top and your out on the bottom. Just with an ice bath and having the in and out on the tops of my coils, I get a clogged snorkel effect when my pressures get past about 35psi and I know its time to purge the tank again. The gauges start to flutter like mad and if you listen to the tank you can hear the sputters of liquid.
I feel like -20F should be fine for carbon steel fittings that re on your hoses if you got them from discount hydraulics. But that's just my opinion.
I wouldn't put alcohol inside the freezer, that sounds like a nice explosion when you open the lid and the lights or compressor kicks on.
I skipped doing sub zero as I realized I would have to elevate the freezer greatly and dig down the tank to get a gently slope from the bottom of the coil to the top of the tank. You want your in on the top and your out on the bottom. Just with an ice bath and having the in and out on the tops of my coils, I get a clogged snorkel effect when my pressures get past about 35psi and I know its time to purge the tank again. The gauges start to flutter like mad and if you listen to the tank you can hear the sputters of liquid.
I feel like -20F should be fine for carbon steel fittings that re on your hoses if you got them from discount hydraulics. But that's just my opinion.
GratefulOne
Member
Big temp swings can cause some fittings to loosen and leak. If you have issue with some locations switch to a tube fitting or some fitting that handles thermal cycling.
Wait wait wait, what are you doing with the valves.? Your entire system, tank and all need a to vacced down as tight as you can get it before your first distillation.
Here's what I do...I don't clear my lines or coils post pump at the end of the day. I wait about an hour for any left over vapor to condense before I close the tank valves. At the beginning of the day I drain the water in the cooler with the coils. This needs to be done to put more ice in but I don't put ice in yet. I then go about my business and get the run going. After my washes and I confirm with the gauges and sight glass that everything's good, and the pumps have been running for about ten minutes, I then go put ice in the cooler. This allows the coils to warm up and clear out. any sitting liquid in the coils. That way when I dump more ice in I'm starting with clear coils and lines so you don't start out the day with clogged up lines and coils.
Hmmm your absolutely correct! Especially if they are buried under a bunch of pg or ice and water that'd be hard to leak check!
Maybe just fill the voids of your freezer with little square containers of ice or bags of ice so you can easily move them and throw some hot soapy water on the fittings at the end of the day when things are a little warmer in there to check for leaks? Although the bottom of the coil and the bottom hose shouldn't really see too much fluctuation if the coil is doing it's job right? The top of the coil and the top hose will for sure see huge swings.
Sunfire,
I do vac down the whole system before I start. At the end of the day today I will be changing my procedure to what you have recommended. Thanks again. As a side note, the recovery times are still brutal. Currently, I am waiting on another TRS-21 so I can run dual pumps and am noticing run times of 3-4 hrs on 3x36 packed at the recommended capacity of 2.04 lbs on just one pump. Seems like this should be faster :/
I do vac down the whole system before I start. At the end of the day today I will be changing my procedure to what you have recommended. Thanks again. As a side note, the recovery times are still brutal. Currently, I am waiting on another TRS-21 so I can run dual pumps and am noticing run times of 3-4 hrs on 3x36 packed at the recommended capacity of 2.04 lbs on just one pump. Seems like this should be faster :/
Sparton,
Those times are long, but definitely not out of the ball park for just one TR-21. That's a lot solvent to recover. You see why people quickly upgrade to multiple TR-21's or a different pump.
GH
I think for the money and speed and dependability the tr21 is the best, worst option. A haskel being the best. Gw has been reporting good news on the cmepol.
How much solvent weight are you using and moving? 95F is a really high water bath temp. Is you tank on ice as well as the coils? Is there lots of water in the ice bath too? Just ice won't work you need water too. I found about 75% water and 25% ice was good. More ice just seems to melt faster.
How much solvent weight are you using and moving? 95F is a really high water bath temp. Is you tank on ice as well as the coils? Is there lots of water in the ice bath too? Just ice won't work you need water too. I found about 75% water and 25% ice was good. More ice just seems to melt faster.
