Broad Mites?

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.dustinsuniqueitems.com/apps/webstore/


You can pick up small amounts of Forbid and Avid here

 

[Some old dude]

Judo

Judo

Back on topic though, I think its Some Old Dude who said just 4 or 5 mites living on a plant is enough to cause severe damage. I'm struggling to go with this mate, with the prolific breeding abilities (to the extent that a lone female will produce male eggs so that she an be mated and then male female mating reproduces, if memory serves me right, 2-1 male to female are produced.

Could it possibly be that although you can only see a handful of mites, that by then a fairly serious infestation is already underway, but not fully detected? If not how do you explain a population of mites to stay so small. I also wonder if Storm and others who had totally crappy results after having thought they'd got rid of the problem, still unbeknown to them, had a fair mite infestation.

I may be totally off the mark and my plants may well turn out to be strugglers, but I can say that the new growth coming now has no real deformity to it. Are some here saying the bad effects from the mites comes back without further infestation further into the grow?

I can relate to this from my previous struggles with off gassing, everything going great but then in week 3-4 of flower the plants would seriously stunt, despite staying very green in the leaf right to the end. (without the off gassing they'd start dying off in the final stages) In that set up, the amount of air flowing through the room made a difference to how the plants reacted. Its only when I totally sealed a room within the room that the many varying symptoms disappeared totally. I thought I'd sorted it many times before this with other methods, such as more air, less heat, less nutrients etc.

My plants were hit hard by these mites when at a small and vulnerable size, they've really struggled and were on their way out, dying. They don't look a picture of health now, but there is a definite spurt of good looking growth coming on now. After my many very poor off gassed grows some years ago, I can't say I'm brimming with confidence that these will do very well, but I live in hope of being a vigilant gardener and getting a decent harvest. They'll have a couple of weeks vegging and catching up to do, by then if my plants are appearing normal I'll be more hopeful.

I do feel that many who have continued problems with plants after exterminating the mite population, probably have some level of mites returning, thus doing the damage.

Storm, you seem to be advising everything horrible and dangerous as the route to success, that's not how aa lot of people like to do things, and there is no defined one way of handling things. I'm with Retro on this one, Avid and forbid used only on young vegging plants, then heat treatments and predators.

I can't find Forbid online in the UK, is there another name for it here does anybody know?

How long do the sachets of Swiriskii last on the shelf? I don't think I can afford, or use a hundred sachets, 16 biggish plants in a 2.4m by 3.5m room.

Thanks, Trev

Another "brand name" for Forbid is "Judo" I can't help you with the availability where you live. It took me some time to find it here in So Cali. It's sort of a "wink wink" "nod Nod" behind the counter at certain selected grow stores in Cali. But I found several places after asking enough people about it. (Had to travel about twenty miles to another city). I hear it's easily available "online" from what I read. But the store's sell as little as 1,2,3 ml's for around twenty dollars a ml and you only need one ml per gallon.

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/floriculture/images/10-10_Mites.pdf

 

[eric2028]

u can find forbid and avid on ebay.

 

[Hosttrevor]

Hi, my grow is infested by BM's, question regarding aspirin: in hydro, rock wool application, filters on drip line pumps, 15gal res, i'm using 15 uncoated aspirin 325. how often should I repeat??? 15 aspirin 1x/week? or with each nutrient feeding (3-4 days)? every two weeks???
how about in the ez cloner? add 1x only, or every so often?? thank you

Continually, every res fill so the plants get it every time they feed.

I'm not sure about the cloner, I'm sure someone will chip in on that though, I think if clones are infected at that stage, the recommendation is start with fresh ones.

Miticides are useful during earlier stages of veg, a combination of AVID and FORBID and heat treatments with temps of 115-120f

Trev

 

[Hosttrevor]

u can find forbid and avid on ebay.

In the UK? I'd appreciate links to the pages if you'd be so kind. I've searched and searched but to no avail.

Thanks, Trev

 

[eric2028]

trev- im not to familiar with the ebay uk site. but I just searched for avid miticide and forbid 4f. got lots of both. I might be mistaken tho, again not familiar with international shipping and such. good luck

 

[Storm Shadow]

If you spray the Avid/Forbid/Indicate 5 combo...you'll notice within 12 hours the plants will stretch and open up .... Adult/Larva/Egg triple double duo ... Using Distilled water is a must

 

[Hosttrevor]

Generic name for Forbid/Judo miticide?

Generic name for Forbid/Judo miticide?

Yeah I can see it in the States, but not in the UK.

Does anyone here know the working ingredient in Forbid/Judo etc? Maybe I can find it here under another name.

Thanks Trev

 

[Hosttrevor]

If you spray the Avid/Forbid/Indicate 5 combo...you'll notice within 12 hours the plants will stretch and open up .... Adult/Larva/Egg triple double duo ... Using Distilled water is a must

Why distilled water Storm?

 

[Storm Shadow]

Why distilled water Storm?

http://www.ppp.purdue.edu/Pubs/PPP-86.pdf

If any of you are using tap water with the Chems...then this could be the reason why its not working for you...

 

[bubbler720]

Hi Storm Shadow, yeah I'm using your recommended application (posted below):

Forbid on friday 5/24 ; avid on sunday ; spinosad tomorrow and on, (all RO water w/surfactant)...

i scoped variety of leaves yesterday - BMs still on there but not moving. new growth on veg plants lighter color, but still curled up stunted + funky. my # count is wayyy low i'm f***d for more cuttings.... you think ok to take cuttings off veg plants already treated with forbid/avid (cuttings will make it?)

cuttings in ez cloner now have roots but new growth is shriveled and doesn't look like will make it... they're dyin' and its killin' me

Storm's recipe i'm following:
Forbid 3ml a gallon mixed with Indicate 5....3 days later....Avid 2.5ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5.... 3 days later Spinosad 60ml per Gallon mixed with INdicate 5.... 2 days later Triple Action Neem Oil mix per label DO NOT Use with any wetting agent....2 days later Azatrol or Azamax 30ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5..I like Neemix 4.5 way better then Azamax or Azatrol... Azasol would be awsome too....

 

[bubbler720]

my original post and pics of my stunted ladies due to BMs are found on this infirmary thread: " Major Stunting Moms + Veg, dying clones, HELP!"

 

[Storm Shadow]

If you just treated those plants you can take cuts...you just have to treat them asap when they root....Forbid takes 2 weeks for its MOA to kick into gear... Treating small plants/Cuts is the key to killing these Bastards... the larger the plant...the more places to hide and lay eggs...none of these Chems are Systemic ....they are all translaminar...so reduce plants size and dip the plant or fog rather than spray helps alot too...

 

[Hosttrevor]

Bubbler, that's one mo fo arsenal you're chucking at your plants, hope you're wearing a proper gas filtered mask etc, seriously bad to be breathing that shit in, or touching food or a splif after without washing thoroughly etc. You've read the dangers yeah? Personally I wouldn't be going with all that stuff, just Avid and Forbid (if I could get hold of it in the uk!), but I'm not attempting to put you off your plan of attack, but just to add to it.

Before you take those cuts, do yourself a huge favour, raise the temps in your room to 115-120f for an hour, such an easy job and it will kill every stage of the mite from egg to fully grown adult. Dead, nada, get it? They cannot survive it. Sure you can get them back if they're in the air or your premises, but heat treat your cloner and everything that is going to go in it and the plants. The plants don't mind it at all, mine were in really poor condition, dying I'd say, the next day they looked better for it straight away, two days later they got their appetites back too, they'd not been very thirsty for ages before this.

The day after the heat treatment the newer growth especially around the lower of the plant where its less affected should be clear for cuts, and a clear cloning zone. If you don't I think you're going to be in for more heartache. The tiniest damage to rooting clones and they';re surely not going to make it

I'll post some pics of my plants since the heat treatment later today or tomorrow, they're a lot better. Scoping shows no signs of life just the old toasted and dead eggs, and I've only applied AVID earlier on.

The general consensus is, I believe, that Avid/Forbid combo is as effective as it gets for miticides.

You cant get any of the chems, wetting agents or not, into the size of nooks and crannies that these tiny fucks go, you'll always have some problem there I think regardless of what you nuke them with.

What ya reckon Bubbler, worth a go surely? ;-)

 

[Hosttrevor]

Storm, all cool I RO my own water, just dont refer to it as distilled ;-)

I think I did use straight tap water, when my RO tank was empty on the last app of Avid, and didn't see a crawler at all. I'll bear it in mind in future and only use RO. It doesn't specify this on the labeling though.

 

[Hosttrevor]

Even dipping plants, which I often do, does not always penetrate evreywhere, like the inner foldings of a tiny new growth. . . . . just where these tiny tings go for.

 

[Hosttrevor]

Also Bubbler, don't be afraid to heat your plants up, mine were at 129.7 for half of the hour's treatment and they're fine ;-)

 

[Hosttrevor]

Here are some pics taken during heat treatment. No air transference or movement, temps show here 118, but for half an hour it stayed above 129f. I don't recommend this, I was aiming for 115-120f The plants didn't flinch though and were looking a bit better the next day.

This room is going to really have that 60's sci-fi 'B' movie look about it once things are all laid out properly ;-)







I love the space blanket stuff you can see tied into the alcoves by the side of the chimney breast, already mylared on one side! Sheeps wool is used in the wadding. It doesn't off-gas. This is a preventative measure to stop any noises going through to the neighbour ;-)

I've yet to adjust the acoustic ducting, get it shortened slightly and fixed to the wall. I have a 4" and a 6" intake attached to the end of two of the intake ducts, and one remains passive. Still very good neg pressure, maybe a little too much. I'm not sure how I'll go with these intakes, the fans are borrowed, I'm still undecided. Anyway, enough rambling off topic.

I'll come back with some pics of the plants after the toasting, there is some strangeness going on, but on the whole a big big improvement and nothing to be seen crawling about.

Trev

 

[Hosttrevor]

Most plants are showing what appears to be good healthy new growth with leaves getting bigger and losing all of that blistering and glossyness, however there is one plant that still has glossy blistered growth every where except for the end of one of the lower branches. Along with this one there are about 3 others that have'nt shot much new fresh growth out so appear to be more glossy and blistered than the others. I cant find anything moving or anything I can determine is a new egg, the very new growth doesn't have any.



I think maybe these plants were the worst ones affected and taking longer to recover, that's what I hope anyway. There may be a chance that this is an early indication that these are going to be strugglers/duds. I'm going to label them so I know how they do later in the grow.

I'm keeping a close eye on them with the 60x microscope, but going to order a 50-500x USB microscope which should make things very easy ;-)

Generally though the plants are doing loads better and starting to drink more and new growth is on a spurt, with the only glossy deformed leaves are from before treatment and that's soon being overtaken by fresh normal looking growth, as you can see here.



and here



On the whole, a lot better and I hope to see these really start to bush up. I've not done any trimming off of lower growth yet, I didn't want to give them any more stress than they were already going through. The roots are looking good and in a couple of days I'll repot them and give them a trim.



Trev