Broad Mites?

[the gnome]

Thanks everyone for the great info. Just finished the thread. I am in day 25 flowering. I found these fuckers this morning and got the diagnosis from some of the other posters here after seeing burned pistils, I looked around them with a 100X scope and saw hella broad mites stumbling around, mostly juvies. Started reading up here and after page 35 took an hour break and sprayed some Avid.. wish I got to all the details about heat treatment in the page 40s 1st before going with poison, but after seeing 75% of the pistils have been shriveled by these fuckers I kinda freaked out.
although i wouldn't do the avid 4 wks in,
I would take the harvest to 88days or more if possible to give as much cushion from the avid

One thing though: when I used the Avid, I just mixed it with coco-wet and tap water ... will this be a problem since I did not pH it at all ?? I was not aware of pH requirement... I never had to use more than azamax before this shit happened. I did leave lights on though & they were on another half hour after too.
I don't know, i always PH'd, scope the plants and see if they're/BMs dead.
After all the other info I still got a few questions so I am hoping you guys can clear things up for me and let me know if I got everything straight as far as what actions I should be taking next.

1. I heard both add Aspirin 325mg / gal and 30ml/gal pro silicate to the feed water immediately to boost immunity & embitter the plant material to the broad mites. Would pro silicate be enough or is aspirin more supplemental?
use both, asprin for the immune system and silica for its benefits separate from asprin
2. I will try the 1hr/ 120 deg heat treatment if possible, to kill the eggs left intact by Avid, but, has anyone done the heat treatment successfully on a scrog type setup with dense foliage? I saw a few posts that it didn't work for a couple people and that someone measured into the canopy and temps were lower. I am not sure I can get the heat that high anyways cause the ceilings are like 10' in my place so I am thinking I may need to take other avenues but will definitely try it cause this would be the perfect fix... however it is a pretty big space so I wanna plan for the worst
once you reach 120F ambient air temps, that doesn't mean the plants are 120F, it takes a while for the internal temps of things to reach 120, i would do more than 1hr,
i went 3 hrs on mine after i hit 120 air temps, have a reliable thermometer inside the plants.
it may be 120 6 ft in the air and less at 2ft.
make sure your plants are watered good, they will transpire quite a bit.

3. Since I'm already almost in week 4 flowering I want to avoid any other strong chems like the avid, assuming I can't get it up to 120 or it doesn't fully penetrate the canopy, what is the best plan B to be on top of the leftover eggs? I suppose the translaminar residual effect of Avid can still get them upon feeding, but if I find new ones later what when scoping what I should I use, triple action neem?
the avid has a residual action and should kill hatchings,
volck oil is has a very low toxicity and kills eggs if you feel you need to do more, I use quite a bit and its great for PM

3. Beneficial predators - this idea seems great, would it be worth it for a 25x12 space? Anyone know a good source for the Koppert Swirski-mite in the states? The slow release bags where they crawled out over time looked cool.
sorry I haven't used pred mites
4. A poster mentioned some strains of entomogenous fungi, Beauveria bassiana, Metarhizium anisopliae, and Paecilomyces fumosoroseus, that can effectively manage broad mite infestations. Anyone know a good source to order this stuff? I was planning to brew some tea soon anyway, would be great to add these in
v
THANkS!!!!!! Despite the horrible infestation I am so happy that I at least found this thread

.....................................

 

[GreenGuySF]

To answer #3
Since your in flower now i would have suggested going with predators & NOT Avid. I saved an infested crop that was 3 wks into flower w/predators alone. That being said & whats done is done...i'd wait to release predators for at least 2 - 3 weeks. Avid is translaminar meaning it enters the plant tissue and has a residual killing effect. If you release predators now they'll likely be killed by the Avid residual. Are you in Cali by chance?

Yea once I read the whole thread, I would have tried that heat treatment, then supplemented w/ beneficial predators, if only I had got to all the testimonials behind the heating first.

I kinda rushed to get the Avid in before my lights went out, d'oh. I will let it flower out an extra couple weeks to give more time for Avid to clear and let the BM-geeked buds get more chance to bounce back

Yup I am in Cali, by the bay.

 

[Grow Tech]

Yea once I read the whole thread, I would have tried that heat treatment, then supplemented w/ beneficial predators, if only I had got to all the testimonials behind the heating first.

I kinda rushed to get the Avid in before my lights went out, d'oh. I will let it flower out an extra couple weeks to give more time for Avid to clear and let the BM-geeked buds get more chance to bounce back

Yup I am in Cali, by the bay.

Kinda thought so with your screen name...check your visitor messages. Posting vendors is against TOU i think so i left you info there

 

[GreenGuySF]

check your visitor messages

THANkS!!!! I couldn't reply there, but I got it. Shipping was like $25. You think 25,000 of them would cover a 25x12 area? If I see more in a week I'm gonna try to get my temps up and if the broad mites are still alive after that I'll release some of the Swirski on them.

 

[Grow Tech]

I've done 2000 N.Californicus in a space 1/2 that size and had good luck. I haven't done Swirski.

 

[RetroGrow]

THANkS!!!! I couldn't reply there, but I got it. Shipping was like $25. You think 25,000 of them would cover a 25x12 area? If I see more in a week I'm gonna try to get my temps up and if the broad mites are still alive after that I'll release some of the Swirski on them.

The more, the better. Depends on the size of the plants. Trees can easily use 1000 per plant. For 25X12, I would actually go with at least 50,000, even 100,000, again depending on number & size of plants. Remember, Avid will kill predators also, as will heat.
Do not minimize the dangers of Avid. It is dangerous stuff and extremely toxic, and lingers in the bud. I would not use it if heat is an alternative. If you use it, wear hazmat gear including a respirator. Don't get it on you or breath it in.

http://www.gro4me.com/pesticides.htm

Also, definitely use aspirin @ 325 Mg. per gallon of nutrient solution to mitigate the effects of broad mite toxins. This really works, and can (should) be used throughout entire grow. Before I knew that I had broads, I used only aspirin, and this helped bring the plants to fruition and made a huge difference. I can't emphasize the use of aspirin enough. Everyone with broad/cyclamen mites should be using it.

 

[truecannabliss]

I have used both the Swarski and Californicus and always get at least 25,000 per 2.4 x 1.2 meter tent.
They both work equally well but the Swarski were considerably cheaper.
Peace

 

[RetroGrow]

I have used both the Swarski and Californicus and always get at least 25,000 per 2.4 x 1.2 meter tent.
They both work equally well but the Swarski were considerably cheaper.
Peace

Yup!
I think he needs 100,000.
Can't have too many....

 

[GreenGuySF]

Yeah I had on full protective gear when I sprayed the Avid. In retrospect, definitely should have at least tried the heat treat first. I really hate the idea of that shit. I guess I kinda got a lil freaked out after reading the horror stories here

Also, definitely use aspirin @ 325 Mg. per gallon of nutrient solution to mitigate the effects of broad mite toxins. This really works, and can (should) be used throughout entire grow.

I fed today with the aspirin, thing is, when the res was empty I saw a bunch of white crap at the bottom. Is this normal? I left the pills in a glass of water for a half hour then stirred it up with a fork before adding to the feed water, and it was uncoated aspirin.

Couple other questions too, this is my space below. Has anyone got the heat kill to work in this large of an area (12x25)? I am worried the foliage might be too dense. So you guys think 100,000 predators should cover it here? I will order those if any survivors left after the avid & heat treat. How about plan C??? Triple action neem?



THANkS again!!! Big time. This is so cool to be in contact w/ you guys. Seriously

 

[LEDNewbie]

When I used regular uncoated aspirin I had the same white sediment. Even after trying to dissolve the aspirin in warm/hot water for 30 minutes..... so I figured the sediment was normal???

 

[high life 45]

Hey growtech great thread for a bad pest!
I am wondering if you can edit your first post to include proven methods of control. It will save a lot of folks a lot of time.

Thanks to everyone for all your contributions.

 

[vince514]

i recently notices very tiny yellowish balls on the undersides of some clones i had taken(now rooted) and also notice some similar leaf damage ..ive used heat to sterlize my grow room in the past super heated to 50 degrees for 4 hours...(my poly was almost maluable) , bleeched before , bleeched after heat application and i must it killed everything..(spider mites and thrips)....hopefully the heat treatment can work again on these suspected bm fookers....so just to confirm heat will kill broad mite larva eggs and adults??????i will try anyways but more info more power one has...thanks in advance everyone

 

[high life 45]

Broad mites? ?Found it localized to just a few leaves on a few plants...

Here is what the rest of the garden looks like

 

[RetroGrow]

Yeah I had on full protective gear when I sprayed the Avid. In retrospect, definitely should have at least tried the heat treat first. I really hate the idea of that shit. I guess I kinda got a lil freaked out after reading the horror stories here



I fed today with the aspirin, thing is, when the res was empty I saw a bunch of white crap at the bottom. Is this normal? I left the pills in a glass of water for a half hour then stirred it up with a fork before adding to the feed water, and it was uncoated aspirin.

Couple other questions too, this is my space below. Has anyone got the heat kill to work in this large of an area (12x25)? I am worried the foliage might be too dense. So you guys think 100,000 predators should cover it here? I will order those if any survivors left after the avid & heat treat. How about plan C??? Triple action neem?

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=44148&pictureid=1036537&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

THANkS again!!! Big time. This is so cool to be in contact w/ you guys. Seriously

It's a big room, so it's going to take some trial and error. First, turn off all AC & ventilation, then check temps (leave lights on). Should be about 105 F or so. You want 120 F, so add electric space heaters as needed to increase temps. Heat rises, so if you can raise plants off the floor, it's better. Also, you will need several thermometers to monitor temps in different areas of the room. White residue from aspirin doesn't matter. Probably fillers anyway. I would stay away from neem oil. If you are using heat, you don't need anything else, but you will have to repeat the process, as once Broads are in your house, they are everywhere, and will come back through ventilation system,etc. Scope them after the first treatment with at least a 100X scope. Look at underside of leaves for eggs. A USB microscope is ideal for this if you have the money. About $130 on Amazon, or check links previously posted for cool scope with LED screen instead of eyepieces. After treatment @ 120F, you should only see dead bodies, shriveled eggs. Be sure to check with scope before hand so you know what you are looking for & dealing with. After first treatment, I would monitor closely and repeat every 10 days or so. Once you have the number of heaters necessary and temps dialed in, it's easy to repeat the process as often as needed, an hour a week if necessary as a preventative. If you are using heat, you don't need Avid. And if you use Avid, it will kill predators, so no use buying predators that will just be killed. Heat will kill predators too. So you really have to pick your poison first. Myself, I would use heat and not spray poison on my plants. That's one of the reasons to use heat:avoiding the toxins. If you do use Avid, wear hazmat gear/respirator, as it's nasty stuff and dangerous. Do not get on skin or breath in. Do not get in eyes. Must wear goggles. Way too much hassle for me to spray that many plants in a room so large. Hence your choice is a no brainer to me: use the heat first, but keep temps @ 120. A couple of degrees either way won't matter, but don't get carried away and go to 150 or something. More is not better. After re-reading, I see you already used Avid, so forget the predators. The Avid will kill them. Pull off some leaves from different areas of the garden and check them daily to see what kind of progress you are making, and how soon they return. Not easy to spray a room that big and get everything.

 

[RetroGrow]

View Image View Image

Broad mites? ?Found it localized to just a few leaves on a few plants...

Here is what the rest of the garden looks like
View Image

Looks like you got them. Cut off most damaged leaves and scope them. Check underside of leaves and you will see eggs. Eggs are easier to see than mites, which hide from light, and are kind of translucent, so difficult to see until you know what to look for. Must confirm with microscope. Only way to see them. 100X cheapo from Radio Shack or Amazon will work, but nice microscope is more convenient. Start aspirin regimen immediately to mitigate damage caused by toxins. Continue aspirin throughout grow. If one or two plants are more affected, which it looks like, toss them unless they are irreplaceable. Then just cut off worst leaves and treat rest of plants.

 

[high life 45]

Well after lots of reading I am going to start with a heat treatment, then conserve sc as a regular preventative from here on out. Storm Shadow and Retro thanks for letting us know. I have already bout some avid and I think that I am not gonna use it.

I must mention that a good compost tea must also help keep them in check because I have had these guys for a while (if the leaf damage is a good indicator of their presencse) and not seen much of an issue, just a few leaves on a couple plants. I have been spraying ct 2x a week for almost a month.

I do think they have infected a plant in my flower room (almost an hour away) but I am in a hydro system and would be afraid to raise the temp that high for that long....I have two weeks left for flowering so predators are gonna have to be the way to go in that room.

I can't agree with that. I've heard the claims, but haven't seen the results. I believe the yield increase by using CO2 is no more than 10%, if you're lucky. Not worth it for me. The expense and hassle just not worth it. I increase yield by using Hempy buckets in coco, and feeding daily. The daily feeding/oxygenation of the roots will really increase your yield dramatically. Not against CO2 for those that use it, just not worth it for me. I like to keep it simple.

Retro if you seal your room up and use co2, you and the act of you opening the door will be the only vector of contamination, a mini split ac gets rid of all of your hvac where they can hide etc. just get yourself a pair or growroom shoes or slippers and a cheap painters suit and only wear those in the growroom, then you wont have them any more. No clothes from outside, no bms from outside.

I grow vert trees unvented bulbs in a sealed room. Not untill I had my co2 AND humidity dialed did I see an increase. A solid 30% increase across the board, my yields went from 3/4# to 1#+ per plant. The only thing that changed was co2 and humidity, nutes media veg time bulbs room etc all the same.

I have been in mushroom grows and labs where they propagate sterile cultures and some simple hygene practices keeps all contaminants out of the environment you wish to keep clean.

I have heard people say that you cant get rid of root aphids and I did with some serious cleaning. These bm's dont multiply nearly as fast as root aphids ime so I feel pretty confident that I will take them out. I deep cleaned multiple times to get rid of ra's and will happily do the same to get rid of bms.

I still think it would be nice to edit the first post of this thread so it matches the root aphids thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960 <----click here, notice how all the important information is right there in the first post?
Not everyone has time away from life job etc to read 60 pages and decide what works for them. I agree that is annoying when someone comes in the middle of a grow thread and asks a question that has already been answered a million times, what strain are you growing, what nutes etc....but here we a dealing with a pest that is taking people out, loosing entire genetic librarys etc. Time is upmost importance. Furthermore the way things are with most of us on the west coast its a small community and it only takes a day to drive from seattle to so cal. An informed an educated community is a good thing, we dont want people breeding super bms. like happened with spidermites, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THE SPIDERMITES THAT CAN TAKE A BATH IN FLORAMITE...... we dont want the same thing to happen with bm's.

Growtech, i will gladly help you do this if you want, I think we should have some the microscope pics (especially the whitefly one) and quotes from you, retro, stormshadow, and others that have reported success with a certain method.

I see alot of folks going straight to avid and forbid, but no spinosad or triple action neem as a preventative. The Nuke em mentatlity is just gonna put more nasties in meds, if you are in an area like retro your just gonna be constantly nuking increasing the chances of the bms building a resistance or tolerance....

Changing your clothes and shoes might be the simple thing that keeps bms out of your growroom, I hope everyone practices this.

Good luck everyone, I will be keeping you posted as to what heat and spinosad do for me.

 

[RetroGrow]

Well after lots of reading I am going to start with a heat treatment, then conserve sc as a regular preventative from here on out. Storm Shadow and Retro thanks for letting us know. I have already bout some avid and I think that I am not gonna use it.

I must mention that a good compost tea must also help keep them in check because I have had these guys for a while (if the leaf damage is a good indicator of their presencse) and not seen much of an issue, just a few leaves on a couple plants. I have been spraying ct 2x a week for almost a month.

I do think they have infected a plant in my flower room (almost an hour away) but I am in a hydro system and would be afraid to raise the temp that high for that long....I have two weeks left for flowering so predators are gonna have to be the way to go in that room.





Retro if you seal your room up and use co2, you and the act of you opening the door will be the only vector of contamination, a mini split ac gets rid of all of your hvac where they can hide etc. just get yourself a pair or growroom shoes or slippers and a cheap painters suit and only wear those in the growroom, then you wont have them any more. No clothes from outside, no bms from outside.

I grow vert trees unvented bulbs in a sealed room. Not untill I had my co2 AND humidity dialed did I see an increase. A solid 30% increase across the board, my yields went from 3/4# to 1#+ per plant. The only thing that changed was co2 and humidity, nutes media veg time bulbs room etc all the same.

I have been in mushroom grows and labs where they propagate sterile cultures and some simple hygene practices keeps all contaminants out of the environment you wish to keep clean.

I have heard people say that you cant get rid of root aphids and I did with some serious cleaning. These bm's dont multiply nearly as fast as root aphids ime so I feel pretty confident that I will take them out. I deep cleaned multiple times to get rid of ra's and will happily do the same to get rid of bms.

I still think it would be nice to edit the first post of this thread so it matches the root aphids thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159960 <----click here, notice how all the important information is right there in the first post?
Not everyone has time away from life job etc to read 60 pages and decide what works for them. I agree that is annoying when someone comes in the middle of a grow thread and asks a question that has already been answered a million times, what strain are you growing, what nutes etc....but here we a dealing with a pest that is taking people out, loosing entire genetic librarys etc. Time is upmost importance. Furthermore the way things are with most of us on the west coast its a small community and it only takes a day to drive from seattle to so cal. An informed an educated community is a good thing, we dont want people breeding super bms. like happened with spidermites, I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN THE SPIDERMITES THAT CAN TAKE A BATH IN FLORAMITE...... we dont want the same thing to happen with bm's.

Growtech, i will gladly help you do this if you want, I think we should have some the microscope pics (especially the whitefly one) and quotes from you, retro, stormshadow, and others that have reported success with a certain method.

I see alot of folks going straight to avid and forbid, but no spinosad or triple action neem as a preventative. The Nuke em mentatlity is just gonna put more nasties in meds, if you are in an area like retro your just gonna be constantly nuking increasing the chances of the bms building a resistance or tolerance....

Changing your clothes and shoes might be the simple thing that keeps bms out of your growroom, I hope everyone practices this.

Good luck everyone, I will be keeping you posted as to what heat and spinosad do for me.

Heat will definitely kill them, but you must check & confirm with a scope, otherwise you are flying blind. Also, aspirin is important. If you add aspirin @ 325 Mg per gallon of nutrient solution, you will see immediate (12 hours) improvement in your most damaged plants. Continue throughout grow. It mitigates the effects of the toxins injected by mites which is what causes damage to plants, by boosting plants immune system. Also, remember, no matter what method you use to kill them, they WILL come back. So you must repeat treatment. Once these are in your house/property, they are coming back. No way to stop it. I left my room empty for 6 months and cleaned/sterilized everything before & after, but two weeks after planting new seeds, they were back. They even survive over the winter outside, when they go into a dormant stage. Once you get the heat treatment dialed in, it is no problem repeating every week or 10 days for an hour. Even works in flower. And hydro not a problem. Will still work. The first time you try it, there is some trial and error getting room to 120 F. Raise plants off the floor if possible using pots or milk crates, as heat rises, and use multiple thermometers around the room, depending on size. Also, make sure space heaters are not the kind that have thermostats that shut off @ a certain temperature. Many of them do.
Since these are microscopic, and float on any wind current or hitch a ride on whiteflies or fungus gnats, or transfer to clothing or your dog, it's virtually impossible to totally eliminate them from your environment. You must continuously scope them, as that is the only way to confirm their presence. Hepa filters are one way to keep them from entering your grow area through ventilation ducting. But no matter what, repeat the process, and don't assume that they are gone forever.

 

[LEDNewbie]

Hey retro. What size scope do you use exactly when looking at leafs that are still attached to the plant? There is no way I can get my 100x steady enough and focused to view a leaf that isn't sitting on a table.

The 30x scope I bought I'm not sure will do the job? Have nothing to scope right now but just not sure it has the power to see the eggs?

I'm a week away from getting my replacements and want to make sure I have all the tools I need in my arsenal!!!! Thanks .....

 

[medicalmj]

Hey retro. What size scope do you use exactly when looking at leafs that are still attached to the plant? There is no way I can get my 100x steady enough and focused to view a leaf that isn't sitting on a table.

The 30x scope I bought I'm not sure will do the job? Have nothing to scope right now but just not sure it has the power to see the eggs?

I'm a week away from getting my replacements and want to make sure I have all the tools I need in my arsenal!!!! Thanks .....

This is what you need:

Only a 4x objective (40x) but huge field of vision. It's a dissecting stereo scope. You can see all mites w it.

 

[Grow Tech]

Hey retro. What size scope do you use exactly when looking at leafs that are still attached to the plant? There is no way I can get my 100x steady enough and focused to view a leaf that isn't sitting on a table.

The 30x scope I bought I'm not sure will do the job? Have nothing to scope right now but just not sure it has the power to see the eggs?

I'm a week away from getting my replacements and want to make sure I have all the tools I need in my arsenal!!!! Thanks .....

30x is what i use and it was more than enough magnification for me to see both eggs & live BM. I prefer 30x over 100x because of its larger field of vision