BREEDING WITH FEMINIZED SEEDS PRO'S & CON'S?

[stagger lee]

IMO using feminized genetics for breeding is asking for trouble. Theres excellent info(easy reading) on this topic in Greg Greens Breeders Bible. chap 15 pg 132-136 I believe.

stay w/standard seeds, Is identifying and pulling a few males really worth the price and problems that come w/feminized genetics!

 

[Tom Hill]

Well, Greg Green is full of shit then Stagger, sorry Greg. You are not looking at a male born out of a gynoecious selection program, ever. What you are looking at is a mostly male intersexed plant born out of an intersexed selection program. Here's the news, you're often looking at the same fucking thing whenever you grow seeds from your "real" breeders "M/F" selection program, only you just don't know it. -T

 

[Guest423]

Poor Greggy!


I've been curious what will happen when I Self a keeper cut of a Feminized hybrid, or use her in a future breeding program introducing a male line?

 

[englishrick]

am i in the TomHill fanclub?

 

[GroMore]

So many seed co's doing this now, but I notice some fem'd products are more hermie prone than others, be this a genetic thing peculiar to a particular strain or the way the femanising was induced. Gather it's a strain issue for the most part of it...

And what do you do when there are so many fem'd beans now appearing on the market, ONLY exist in fem'd form, take it or leave it...take Paradise Seeds Sensi Star for example, I've wanted to do these for ages now, keep holding out for regular beans but they don't show no more....hmmm, the only way to latch on to those genetics is...so I've considered crossing and back-crossing etc...this thread brings up such a major point that needs resolving.

Dr Greenthumb is progressively femanising his stock, can't get his Endless Sky regulars lately, just as well I caught the last pack in my collection....won't be letting those go out without producing a bean or ten zillion

So how much influence does a regular male plant have over future genetic tendencies...are they capable of settling a fem'd line's hermie tendencies down enough to produce reliable sexual orientation or do we say their influence is not sufficient....and what about all these regular lines getting around that are so full of hermies anyway?

So you breed with a fem'd line or you do without....kiss the magic influence of you fav bud goodbye and let it slip away or alternatively, capture it in a cross. The whole hermie tendency thing is a scary proposition for anyone but to allow top lines to go by just because they were once fem'd for market monopoly reasons, makes bunnies out of us all.

GroMore

 

[amrad]

I would personally love to use only females as breeding stock, from fem stock or not, because you get a better feel of what the final product will be like, which is smokeable bud, not males. I think it's total bullshit that people will rip on fem seeds/breeding when there hasn't been solid evidence that femming definitely gives hermies. Regular beans give hermies too and lots of people had no problems with fem seeds. Maybe even a male used for breeding passes on stronger hermie tendencies than female pollen.

I think I agree with you, but since I'v never grown out a fem seed, I may be talking out my ass LOL
But since we are by and large breeding for female characteristics it makes sense to me that if you can breed true female to true female you would be way ahead of the game. Sex expression is only a small part of the total genetic package, and as far as I know there are no sex linked characteristics that only males posess other than the difference in sex expression of course. I mean scientificly proven sex linked characteristics.
What the long term effect on cannabis as a species would be, who knows.
I would imagine if you were to plant a feild of fem seeds that after flowering for a while some would express male characteristics.

 

[DocLeaf]

I think I agree with you, but since I'v never grown out a fem seed, I may be talking out my ass LOL.

You gotta be in it to win it

We were really very sceptical about feminized seeds for a long time.. and were not impressed with the first female seeds to appear on the market. Newer methods of producing female seeds have however ironed out may of the problems associated with abnormal sexuality and dwarfism in these fem. lines in recent years... so perhaps there's as much hope,, as there is doom and gloom in this botanical field.

The value of fem. seeds,, as breeding stock,, is still being tested these sides... we'll keep yo'll posted

 

[darwinsbulldog]

hey DocLeaf mind me asking what caused the abnormal sexuality and dwarfism in the first fem seeds to be created? what were they doing originally that caused this?

 

[DocLeaf]

Fem. seed makers initially reversed unstable female clones ,, via stress ,, to produce male pollen and backed it to cuttings off the same clone. The female seeds then inherited this stress trait,, and most of them produced seeds or male flowers at the end of flowering.

Today fem. seed makers use Colloidal Silver spray to inhibit the female hormones in a female clone,, so that the male side is expressed... then cross the pollen given onto a different female clone to make a fem. hybrid,,, or the same stable cutting to get consistent seed results. And this new method seems to produce better resulting plants,, IMO... so far.

The stability and quality of a feminized seed line is always subject to the parent(s) used,, like any seeds are,,, and fem. seed makers got smarter in recent years ,, and started to select stable clones as parents to make much more stable resulting female seed stocks from. This is how we see it anyhow,, could be wrong,, have been before,,

In the past,, we wouldn't have dreamt of using a stressed out unstable seed line for breeding (totally out the question) ,,, whereas today after chatting to the breeders that make feminized seeds... we thought we'd give a feminized parent plant a try.

Hope this helps

 

[darwinsbulldog]

thanks for the info DocLeaf, have a nice one

 

[freefields]

It's got nothing at all to do with the method used doc, it's all about the initial parental selection.

Bad choice of parent = bad seeds, it's a simple equation.

 

[DocLeaf]

Painted Lady ... (Critical fem. x W.Widow x Free Tibet regular)

Hope this helps

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Even if it's a clone of a clone,, or clone of a clone of a clone that's feminized,, we've NEVER seen one!

So.... what do you attribute this to? I have Trainwreck and Sweet Diesel mums from femmed seed that are 3 years old and going strong. (Edit: And they've seen some SERIOUS abuse from me over those years) You're telling me I'm going to start having problems with them?

Not saying I don't believe you, just looking for something that explains it more than your comment.

Stay Safe!

 

[DocLeaf]

It's got nothing at all to do with the method used doc, it's all about the initial parental selection.

Bad choice of parent = bad seeds, it's a simple equation.

Sure using plants that were prone to stress,, to produce feminized seed lines from,,, like Grapefruit,, did no favours for the cannabis gene pool,,, or the cannabis community

But we'd also argue that 'Rodalization' wasn't a good method of producing stable plants full stop. Those we grew and saw 9/10 produced hermaphrodites/abnormal flowers in lineage... and could not be considered credible candidates as breeding stock.

Unfortunately one of the main reasons that fem. seeds get such bad publicity today,, is because the seeds produced during the pioneer days of the fem seed craze were sexually unstable.

 

[DocLeaf]

So.... what do you attribute this to? I have Trainwreck and Sweet Diesel mums from femmed seed that are 3 years old and going strong. (Edit: And they've seen some SERIOUS abuse from me over those years) You're telling me I'm going to start having problems with them?

Not saying I don't believe you, just looking for something that explains it more than your comment.

Stay Safe!

Please show us a photo... we'd like to see as many old fem. clones as possible (old = c2005 or before normally),, after 2007 the fem. scene slowly changed with the method

It's new ground we are covering here,, so who knows what will happen next (not us),, that's half the point we are trying to emphasis,, the breeders making these seeds tested them about as much as you/we did ,,, probably less

Peace n flowers

 

[CFP65]

hey Doc Leaf
some posts ago Darwinsbulldog asked about the Dwarfism thing in feminised seeds.

but i lack an ansver to this

Do the intended deep burial of the male expression via breeding with feminised plants cause dwarfism.

as i read up on this it seems that gibberlin that controls the male expression and surpress the ethylene production (that controls the female expression), also has a role in dwarfism.

that is to say if you intend to bury the gibberlin motor so deep that the motor cease to function in the progeny, will they not be dwarfs.
that is could a as true XX whatever female as you could possibly get it with the male expression traits (eg. the gibberlin motor at 0.001rpm) not have the fysical expression dwarf.

or am i way of in the skyes here

i ask because my project with CS.ing for a S1 batch has resulted in various genetic defects aka. a plant with a consistenly even number of leaffingers and a dwarf.

 

[Texicannibus]

I have run clones of clones of a feminized strain for about 6 generations and currently going strong .. It has only been running about a year though and is from the newer generation of feminized stock.

 

[DocLeaf]

Thanks for the in-put

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Please show us a photo... we'd like to see as many old fem. clones as possible (old = c2005 or before normally),, after 2007 the fem. scene slowly changed with the method

Turns out they're from late '08. They were sprouted a month or so, after I joined up here.

TWRPP Femmed Trainwreck I call the Root Porn Pheno

Sweet Diesel (Sweet Tooth #3 X Princess Diesel)

Both in Flower

Stay Safe!

 

[DocLeaf]

Cool stuff,, thanks for sharing Please keep us updated